Made my number a while ago, now need some courage

[gbronc]

Joined the forum last year and been actively lurking and reading for the last six months. I am 55 and DW is 57. She has been a homemaker and we've raised now adult kids without her working. I have run every retirement calculator and personal finance tool, including Quicken, for years and am 99.9% sure of the financial side of retirement. It will be quite a challenge to switch to spending from saving and my wife is rightly worried about my pulling that off. But I think the obsessive calculator use, especially Pralana, has made me very confident. We'd be spending well under 3% even under the most pessimistic scenarios.

I lost most of my motivation and fulfillment in my job years ago as a mid-level technology director, but it pays quite well and has a low level of stress with minor commute. I earn, after tax, about 4% of my net worth each year. There is the usual social interaction of a job, but I am not friends with co-workers, partly because they all work for me. I have no peer management physically near me anymore.

I have read a lot of the non-financial retirement books including How to Retire Happy Wild and Free (on the positive side) and The New Retirementality: Planning Your Life and Living Your Dreams (on the negative side). How to Retire Happy was much more useful and encouraging, but I won’t really know if it was effective until I actually retire. I know I should be engaging in activities pre-retirement to have something to retire to, but I only mountain bike regularly and that can't fill every day.

My biggest concerns are the lack of social interaction and having a purpose with structure in retirement. I am an introvert (ISTJ), but do like social interaction with interesting people. I just don’t like (or am too lazy) to make the effort to have those interactions and DW is also an introvert that doesn’t typically create couples social interactions either.

Can’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Once I retire, it is done, I will have no option for part time work or to return to current job or even a similar job, mostly because of my obvious disengagement. Wouldn’t want to do that anyway since I’ve lost almost all interest and don’t need the money.

The obvious advice from this forum will be to go for it and retire, it's mostly wonderful. Put yourself out there with your interests via meetups, find a purpose, don't just sit there, etc. All valid. Retirement can’t possibly be any more boring and unfulfilling than this job, I just won’t have the big paycheck or the limited superficial social interactions or daily structure anymore. The vast majority on this forum are pro-retirement, but are not indicative of the general retirement population. The retirement research on depression, shorter longevity and lack of identity and structure in retirement are troubling.

Was really just looking for past experiences from those that have retired with similar concerns and/or disposition. Really love the forum and its positive feedback on retirement.

[Lewis Clark]

You already know that after you retire, you will have to find something to do to fill your day. If you want some of this to be social interaction with interesting people, why haven't you started looking for them already? It may help if you have a few social interactions already set up before retiring, such as joining some type of social group or some type of volunteer work.

Or, go ahead and retire with nothing to do. It may feel good for a while to just putter around the house after spending an entire career working. Eventually, if you get bored enough puttering around the house, you will find that you have some initiative to overcome the laziness. Or not.

For some people it can be very hard to put themselves out there and join groups and find a social life. I have that trouble myself.

You may not have an option for part-time work in your current industry, or with your current employer, but that doesn't mean you have no option for any type of part-time work. Part-time work with other employers could be a possibility if you decide that is what you want to do.

I've been downsizing my workload for the last two years, and will finally be fully retired in May of this year. I've picked up a couple of volunteer jobs, two or three short projects and two or three longer (but finite) commitments. If the longer commitments work out then I might stick with them indefinitely. If they don't work out, I'll serve my commitment, and then move on to something else. None of these volunteer gigs are irrevocable decisions, so it's all good. : )

[euro]

Well, nobody on this board can ultimately make this decision for you, but we CAN relate our own experiences. I was in a fairly similar position to yours (except I actually did still enjoy many day to day aspects of my job). I FIRED at 56 four years ago and I have yet to encounter a boring day. I have kept up (occasional lunch) with a couple of old work buddies, but for the most part, I don't miss them - never had a problem with them, but I'm totally happy with charting my own course now.
Again, can't make the decision for you, but I'm a strong believer in enjoying things while you can. You don't know when a disease/disability hits or the curtain goes down for good.

[Dtail]

Retired at 57.
Truly have never been bored in 2.5 years, even on days when we do nothing. Perhaps a very high stressful job for me provided the looking forward thought process.
We didn't retire to anything in particular, but now for example I play Pickleball 5-6 days a week and there goes my mornings for starters.
You will find your way.

[gbronc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euro ...nobody on this board can ultimately make this decision for you, but we CAN relate our own experiences.

Yes, I should have said that. Was really just looking for past experiences from those that have retired with similar concerns and/or disposition.

[RunningBum]

You have social interaction today, but it is with people who are not your friends because they work for you. That doesn't sound very fulfilling. If you ER'd, you'd have time to pursue your interests, and could have interactions with others that have those interests, and you wouldn't have rank getting in the way there.

I don't mountain bike, but I know people who do, and it's a lot like my trail running community. They have group rides, regular trail work days, and social events. That seems like a good start.

For myself, I don't need daily structure, so I'm not sure I can help there. I have an ER friend who sets 4 goals for each day: I think they are social interaction, community work, physical exercise, and mental stimulation. Might not be exactly that, but he tries to do something in each category like that each day. You could set a goal to do something each week if daily sounds improbable.

[Bir48die]

Find a hobby or two. Find a passion. Use your skills for a nonprofit. You find that there are others in the same boat as you. Take up a sport. Take a class. All those things give you interaction in a structured setting. It doesn’t mean I spend evening hours with all of them but these things challenge my mind and body.

[WyomingLife]

Dear OP:

I just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful and insightful post. I do suspect that the psychological aspects of aging, which presumably include leaving the w*rkforce at some point, could be more challenging than financial considerations.

I have no insights from experience to offer. I am of a similar age and situation. And still awake and go to a desk everyday for a mix of complicated reasons, none really financial.

But thank you for flagging the issue again. I tend to view these issues through the framework of what it means to be a human being. Does it include arising everyday to spend 4 hours or so trying to hit a tiny ball into a tiny cup? I don’t know. Golf never held much interest for me personally, but it does tend to fill some hours each week, I suppose. If golf or something similar is the alternative to w*rk, I think it is reasonable for somebody to conclude that going to the office everyday isn’t so bad.

I think the answers to these questions also are influenced by whether one is religious or at least has a view about what happens (or not) when the proverbial curtain comes down. I tend to view these matters through a scientific lens instead of faith, but I am no expert.

I found Frankl’s classic “Man’s Search for Meaning” to provide some insights on these topics, if nothing else..

There may also be lessons from anthropology. Apparently it wasn’t until relatively recently that human beings engaged in “w*rk” as modern society has come to understand it. It is thought that hunter-gathers, for example, maybe were putting in far fewer hours each week in order to survive than a person today punching a time card at a factory. Thus, one read of the anthropology literature might suggest that there is nothing wrong with hanging out in a tree everyday and catching some rays. So maybe the choice isn’t binary (office v. golf); maybe a third option — simple leisure — is rooted in our genetics.

Anyway, I hope you continue to post on this topic from time to time, as it seems that you have a lot to add that could help some other folks, myself included. Good luck.

[DrRoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbronc We'd be spending well under 3% even under the most pessimistic scenarios. My biggest concerns are the lack of social interaction and having a purpose with structure in retirement. I am an introvert (ISTJ), but do like social interaction with interesting people. I just don’t like (or am too lazy) to make the effort to have those interactions and DW is also an introvert that doesn’t typically create couples social interactions either. Can’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Was really just looking for past experiences from those that have retired with similar concerns and/or disposition. Really love the forum and its positive feedback on retirement.

This describes us very well (even the ISTJ). FIRE'd 3 years ago at 57 and DW 56. I liked the interaction with people at work and enjoy seeing people from the office at the annual Christmas party, but have done little to replace it. Still, we are generally occupied every day with something. We travel 12-15 weeks per year. While travelling, we both shoot a lot of pictures. I then spend a fair amount of time editing the photos, and we often create a coffee table book from them. We both read a lot, watch some TV, and go on a 2 mile walk most days with the dog. I'm a moderator for a Space History group on FB. Meetup.com is a great way to find things of interest. I could be quite deeply involved as an assistant with a photographer friend I met there who does workshops, but I do not want to take the time away from what I am doing. Occasionally we go out to a movie, concert, or the theater. It is so wonderful to run my own day the way I want to instead of having bosses and customers doing it.

[DawgMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbronc Joined the forum last year and been actively lurking and reading for the last six months. I am 55 and DW is 57. She has been a homemaker and we've raised now adult kids without her working. I have run every retirement calculator and personal finance tool, including Quicken, for years and am 99.9% sure of the financial side of retirement. It will be quite a challenge to switch to spending from saving and my wife is rightly worried about my pulling that off. But I think the obsessive calculator use, especially Pralana, has made me very confident. We'd be spending well under 3% even under the most pessimistic scenarios. I lost most of my motivation and fulfillment in my job years ago as a mid-level technology director, but it pays quite well and has a low level of stress with minor commute. I earn, after tax, about 4% of my net worth each year. There is the usual social interaction of a job, but I am not friends with co-workers, partly because they all work for me. I have no peer management physically near me anymore. I have read a lot of the non-financial retirement books including How to Retire Happy Wild and Free (on the positive side) and The New Retirementality: Planning Your Life and Living Your Dreams (on the negative side). How to Retire Happy was much more useful and encouraging, but I won’t really know if it was effective until I actually retire. I know I should be engaging in activities pre-retirement to have something to retire to, but I only mountain bike regularly and that can't fill every day. My biggest concerns are the lack of social interaction and having a purpose with structure in retirement. I am an introvert (ISTJ), but do like social interaction with interesting people. I just don’t like (or am too lazy) to make the effort to have those interactions and DW is also an introvert that doesn’t typically create couples social interactions either. Can’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Once I retire, it is done, I will have no option for part time work or to return to current job or even a similar job, mostly because of my obvious disengagement. Wouldn’t want to do that anyway since I’ve lost almost all interest and don’t need the money. The obvious advice from this forum will be to go for it and retire, it's mostly wonderful. Put yourself out there with your interests via meetups, find a purpose, don't just sit there, etc. All valid. Retirement can’t possibly be any more boring and unfulfilling than this job, I just won’t have the big paycheck or the limited superficial social interactions or daily structure anymore. The vast majority on this forum are pro-retirement, but are not indicative of the general retirement population. The retirement research on depression, shorter longevity and lack of identity and structure in retirement are troubling. Was really just looking for past experiences from those that have retired with similar concerns and/or disposition. Really love the forum and its positive feedback on retirement.

You just rewrote one of my recent posts in your own words...

Brother, I get ya. I'm the same age, same profile with kids gone, wife stayed home. As others have said to me, you will know when you know. In my case, I have a foot in both boats... some days I play retired, other days I play competitive sales guy. I am fortunate to enjoy many aspects of my job, make good money, and have as much flexibility as I want (I'm self-employed). I find that too much idle time is not good for me so I choose to "do some work" to keep me engaged until I either find a substitute or "know when I know".

No foul in working on your on your terms.

If you discover the secret sauce, let me know.

[24601NoMore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbronc It will be quite a challenge to switch to spending from saving and my wife is rightly worried about my pulling that off. I know I should be engaging in activities pre-retirement to have something to retire to, but I only mountain bike regularly and that can't fill every day. My biggest concerns are the lack of social interaction and having a purpose with structure in retirement. I am an introvert (ISTJ), but do like social interaction with interesting people. I just don’t like (or am too lazy) to make the effort to have those interactions and DW is also an introvert that doesn’t typically create couples social interactions either. The retirement research on depression, shorter longevity and lack of identity and structure in retirement are troubling. Was really just looking for past experiences from those that have retired with similar concerns and/or disposition. Really love the forum and its positive feedback on retirement.

OP - I retired at the beginning of 2019 and DW later that summer. We're currently 56 (me) and 62 (DW), and like you are pretty confident on the financial parts of ER but struggling a bit with some of the other issues you mentioned. We're also both introverts as well - me moreso than DW, so do not have a lot of social interactions outside of the family and a small handful of close friends.

Having skimmed Retire Wild, Happy & Free (never finished reading entirely as I thought the book was a bit..odd..at times), I knew that retiring "to" something would be important. Unfortunately, aside from a half-baked interest to pursue becoming a CFP, I didn't really have that part of things clearly defined. And, the first year was likely for that reason pretty tough. I struggled a LOT with depression and a loss of identity, because to that point my j*b was pretty much who I was.

I did quickly find that it wasn't hard to find things to fill the days completely. I became quite busy doing finances, cooking (everything from "scratch" which takes a ton of time), following politics more closely, trying to fix things around our McMansion to get it ready to sell, and exercising - whether mountain biking, hiking or just working out every day on my elliptical or spin bike. Believe it or not, that and reading ER and a few other forums filled up pretty much all the hours in a day. That said, my choices on activities added to the depression because I really felt (and generally still do) that I wasn't ACCOMPLISHING much. And, being a former type A+++ person who also worked in IT my entire career, that became the biggest obstacle to my personal happiness in ER.

A year and a month later, I'm starting to finally appreciate having an opportunity that few have. I still stress daily about the $$, because moving from savings to spending IS - at least for me - insanely difficult. That's another thing to consider - you will no longer be accumulating and instead are whittling away a pile of assets that will fluctuate in value - perhaps in large percentages during the next bear market. All the talk of "past performance" aside, no-one knows if the next 10-20 years will be anything like the past, or if we'll go into a period where stocks underperform their long term averages for a lengthy timeframe (eg: 2000-2010 or worse, Japan). I also see a lot of articles pretty much daily that are predicting the next 10 years or so not to be good in terms of expected stock performance, yet the market continues to defy those pundits seemingly daily. Yet, I have this perhaps unfounded fear (also daily) that the rug is going to get pulled out from under us any day now, and the markets are going to go "splat" in a way that drops the equity value of my portfolio by 30-50%..which would freak the crap out of me if so. So, given that, I've taken an uber-conservative approach and focus much more on fixed income and not equities. It's not a particularly popular approach here on ER and there are few of us that do that..but, even with only ~25% of our NW in equities, a 50% market drop would still be a significant financial event for us. So, there's that aspect of things that keep me awake at night also..

Being able to ER and focus on living your life is a great gift, and I know quite a few people who'd give their eye teeth to be able to do what we can and leave the workforce early. That said, you raise some great points about the potential trade-offs as well.

Hope that helps provide at least some additional perspective that while ER is overall great that there are legitimate downsides as well. And these definitely include a shift from accumulating to spending as well as all the psychological aspects which at least in my experience have not been nearly as well covered, researched or written about as the financial side of things are..

[Dtail]

I was a Type A personality at work too in a very stressful Wall Street environment.
However, I have not missed work one bit and would never consider going back to work.
I guess not being able to find work after searching for 15 months, but realizing then I could retire allowed the Type A personality to calm down and realize there are better ways to spend my time going forward.

I never worry about how to fill my days. Yes I do follow the markets and our investments very closely and at times think about a black swan event.

[mystang52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bir48die Find a hobby or two. Find a passion. Use your skills for a nonprofit. You find that there are others in the same boat as you. Take up a sport. Take a class. All those things give you interaction in a structured setting. It doesn’t mean I spend evening hours with all of them but these things challenge my mind and body.

+1 I tend to be introverted, and I was happily ER'd for 6+ years before DW just recently pulled the plug. I found lots of fun things to do on my own. Key is to make sure you get out of the house for at least part of every day.
Whatever it is that you like, find ways to do it outside of the house. For example, even if you have a stamp collecting hobby, find a stamp collecting club. Reading and/or watching TV all day, to the exclusion of any other activities, won't be a fulfilling retirement.

[MBAustin]

I was also a mid-level technology director but unlike you found my job increasingly toxic in the last 3 years before I ER'd. (Actually, it wasn't the job itself that was toxic as I had exceptionally good teams, it was management above me that was totally dysfunctional and drove me bananas.) So I ended up ER'ing about 4 years earlier than planned and have not regretted it for one millisecond.

I had a couple of volunteer gigs lined up before I left and then dipped my toe into some consulting, so ended up being more busy than I wanted to be. Dropped the consulting as I didn't need the $$ and pounding the pavement was no fun even though the projects themselves were. I still do significant volunteering and travel a good bit, but I enjoy the everyday things like cooking fresh food each evening, knitting in front of the TV, going to the gym in the middle of the day, and walking the dog as much or as little as I want whenever I want.

The real goal is to be FI so you can ER when you want, and you're there. So go for it when you are ready. You will be nervous and telling your boss will be terrifying (BTDT) but you will be fine (if not better than fine). Keep us posted!

[pacergal]

I am starting year 4 of retirement. I worked on call the first 3 years. This past year, I have really enjoyed spending days with grandkids, working around the house and yard and just vegging out. As an introvert also, I still enjoy some contact with others and I have begun to think about some other things I can get involved with.
It is so nice to decide each day what I want to do!
OP--when the time is right, you will find your groove.

[Mdlerth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbronc The vast majority on this forum are pro-retirement, but are not indicative of the general retirement population. The retirement research on depression, shorter longevity and lack of identity and structure in retirement are troubling.

Consider that studies which correlate depression, shorter longevity, etc., in retirement may be putting the cart before the horse. It's not the retirement that caused their problems; their problems led to bad retirements.

People who are forced into early retirement by poor health are likely to die earlier because they've got health problems; folks who are laid off from j*bs they loved are likely to suffer from lack of identity and structure; the poor souls whose retirements were premature or encountered crushing reversals are more likely to encounter depression.

Conversely, the vast majority on this forum are pro-retirement because they do NOT fall into the categories listed above. You're correct: they're not indicative of the general retirement population. And neither will you be. You are in sufficiently good health to go mountain biking; you aren't finding the j*b meaningful anymore; you are amply funded. So let not your heart be troubled. Good luck.

[SumDay]

I retired 17 months ago. The months leading up to the last day were pretty stressful. Boss promised me he'd have my replacement hired before I left (didn't happen so the team was pi$$ed I was retiring anyway), and I just couldn't get my head around having no paycheck, even though FireCalc said we were good to go, and then some. I was also worried about boredom, and planned to volunteer like there was no tomorrow so I could save the world.

I still haven't committed to a steady volunteer gig, but I am working on a petition drive to get an initiative on our state ballot in November. I like that there's an end date to projects. The finances have been fine and we're not eating cat food. I've learned to sleep late, become a regular at the library and read, read, read, like I've always dreamed of doing. Saving the world will have to wait for a bit.

Sounds like you're $$$ is ready, but you may not be. I can't tell you how liberating it is to wake up each morning with that "Saturday" feeling. I highly recommend it.

[WyomingLife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth Conversely, the vast majority on this forum are pro-retirement because they do NOT fall into the categories listed above. You're correct: they're not indicative of the general retirement population. And neither will you be. You are in sufficiently good health to go mountain biking; you aren't finding the j*b meaningful anymore; you are amply funded. So let not your heart be troubled. Good luck.

Are there data to support the statement above?

[WyomingLife]

I'm also curious if 40 years of "mountain biking" is indicative of a relevant or realistic retirement.

[24601NoMore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WyomingLife Are there data to support the statement above?

I was wondering the exact same thing..I've seen plenty of examples of people finding ER very psychologically challenging that do not fit into any of the categories mentioned.

Psychological challenges of ER are in my experience very real - and I CHOSE to ER..I wasn't downsized, forced out, etc. But I also realized that what most companies require out of their white-collar workforce today borders on insanity and it simply wasn't healthy for me to continue moving from company to company trying to find one that WASN'T god-awful in one way or another. So, when I was confident I was FI, I retired. But not having something to retire TO as has been talked about often does become a very real issue and there are plenty of people who struggle with the lack of identity, depression, etc..and as one of my very good friends is fond of saying "you can only play golf so many hours a day". (I don't golf, however, FWIW)..

Overall, I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence (myself included) that loss of identity, depression, difficulty adjusting to the new "post-ER" life can very often be due to issues other than those that were mentioned.