My employer will shed 1,500 IT jobs here over next three years

[haha]

Ironically enough today in a local Seattle paper IT salaries were ranked 3rd highest in the country. That was a bit surprising at $110K a year.

Washington tech pay averages $110k, third highest in U.S. | Brier Dudley's blog | Seattle Times

Local salaries for everything are very high relative to most of the country. And, "tech" salaries in Seattle and the Eastside are pulled up by very highly paid software developers at MS, Amazon, Google, etc.

As to getting transferred elsewhere and keeping your Seattle salaries, that seems unlikely, as it seems that would create a poisonous atmosphere in the new place. Unless your group would be given some higher level jobs. I hope that you will pull a new title and keep your high pay.

It seems to me that Boeing is pissed at Seattle, and feels that the Machinists' Union and SPEEA have overplayed their hands. When the executive offices moved to Chicago, I felt that the writing was on the wall. It would take a long time, but Boeing was cutting ties. The question is, can they manage to build a good plane elsewhere?

Personally, I am much more attached to Jet City than to Latteland or Hipsterville, and I wish state government had been able to keep Boeing centered here.

Ha

 

[Chuckanut]

When the executive offices moved to Chicago, I felt that the writing was on the wall. It would take a long time, but Boeing was cutting ties.

+1

 

[timo2]

What exactly is a Center of Excellence supposed to be/do? My former Megacorp established one too while I was there, in India. Last I heard, they're still struggling with quality issues five years later, yet they want to move more jobs there to cut costs. I still don't know what the CoE was supposed to contribute.

We have a troublesome & nit picky COE that reviews our IT security status, and they just changed their acronym to OCD (oversight & compliance division)

 

[ERD50]

... When the executive offices moved to Chicago, I felt that the writing was on the wall. ...

Ha

Chicago and Illinois aren't exactly viewed as being 'business friendly' - I imagine Seattle must have been considerably worse?

-ERD50

 

[Brat]

I think they wanted to move there because Chicago is centrally located geographically and to deliver a message to Seattle metro that they aren't the only town in the country. You have to be from outside of WA to understand the undertone of what I am alluding to.

 

[zedd]

I think they wanted to move there because Chicago is centrally located geographically and to deliver a message to Seattle metro that they aren't the only town in the country. You have to be from outside of WA to understand the undertone of what I am alluding to.

I'm from both Chicago and Seattle. What are you alluding to?

 

[Brat]

Seattle, IMHO, tends to take its employers for granted. Watch their local television stations for a while, they ignore significant issues in other communities in their viewing area - let alone the state.

I lived in Seattle Metro for 15 years, the pic to the left was taken from the deck of my home.

 

[Tractor guy]

I've gone through this every 6-7 years at my former megacorp with the last one being the worst.

Do you have a mentor or a good open relationship with your boss? You need to find someone who can tell you honestly what the management one or two levels above you is thinking about you and your situation. They most likely have already put you in one of three lists. They are; 1) not needed, 2) maybe can find a home, 3) star performer. The star performers will be given jobs. The Maybe's will have to network their a****s off but may find a position. Everybody else is on their way out but just doesn't know it yet. If they don't accept the early retirement offer, they will be layed off.

It will be hard to find out the true situation because your boss may not know and/or will have been given a script by HR that won't allow him/her to tell you all of the details. The communication details of these large layoffs are all reviewed by the corporate lawyers and your boss will have been told that he'll be put on the layoff list if he doesn't follow the script.

 

[Chuckanut]

Chicago and Illinois aren't exactly viewed as being 'business friendly' - I imagine Seattle must have been considerably worse?

-ERD50

Actually Boeing has received a lot of favorable tax treatment from the state of Washington.

 

[Chuckanut]

Seattle, IMHO, tends to take its employers for granted. Watch their local television stations for a while, they ignore significant issues in other communities in their viewing area - let alone the state.

You mean things like the endless fussing over getting another pro basketball team while hundreds of high paid skilled jobs at Boeing go to another state?

 

[racy]

What exactly is a Center of Excellence supposed to be/do? ....

The megacorp I worked for did alot of medical device manufacturing. They took the functions of Human Resources, Finance and General Services (Buyers) out of the various plants and consolidated them into a Service Center in Texas. It's cost cutting.

 

[zedd]

Oh how art imitates life. From the movie "Margin Call":

John Tuld: So, what you're telling me, is that the music is about to stop, and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism.

Peter Sullivan: Sir, I not sure that I would put it that way, but let me clarify using your analogy. What this model shows is the music, so to speak, just slowing. If the music were to stop, as you put it, then this model wouldn't even be close to that scenario. It would be considerably worse.

John Tuld: Let me tell you something, Mr. Sullivan. Do you care to know why I'm in this chair with you all? I mean, why I earn the big bucks.

Peter Sullivan: Yes.

John Tuld: I'm here for one reason and one reason alone. I'm hear to guess what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. That's it. Nothing more. And standing here tonight, I'm afraid that I don't hear - a - thing. Just... silence.

Extreme use of leverage on exotic financial instruments led to the '07 global margin call. Thusly played out in the movie.

Bleeding edge technology outsourced to providers around the globe, a product delivered almost three years late, perhaps leading to the '87 global margin call. Thusly played out in real life.

Just sayin.

Full disclosure: Zedd works for the same megacorp as the OP. Received my invitaton for a voluntary lay off (VLO). package on Friday. I think I'll take it.

As Edward R Murrow used to say "Good night and good luck".

zedd

 

[Khufu]

I found this graph surprising: IT Labor force is now back down to the 1990 level.

 

[haha]

I found this graph surprising: IT Labor force is now back down to the 1990 level.

Could someone explain o me what IT is? Both my kids are software managers and/or developers; I have never heard either of them or any of their friends refer to themselves as IT.

It must include a much broader field than software development, as there are huge industries in many cities (we all know which cities they are) which were much smaller in 1990. A lot of jobs had to been lost somewhere else to allow all that growth in software and overall stasis. And it cannot be outsourcing; software firms also bring many programmers into the US. They would like to bring a lot more if the H1B issue can be resolved toward more liberality.

Ha

 

[Khufu]

Could someone explain o me what IT is? Both my kids are software managers and/or developers; I have never heard either of them or any of their friends refer to themselves as IT.

It must include a much broader field than software development, as there are huge industries in many cities (we all know which cities they are) which were much smaller in 1990. A lot of jobs had to been lost somewhere else to allow all that growth in software and overall stasis. And it cannot be outsourcing; software firms also bring many programmers into the US. They would like to bring a lot more if the H1B issue can be resolved toward more liberality.

Ha

Your kids are in IT, however they speak of it.

Outsourcing was certainly part of it. About 7 or 8 years ago IBM announced it would outsource 75% of its jobs, mostly to India. I haven't kept tally, but there have been numerous announcements of layoffs from IBM since. So, I assume that they did what they said they were going to do. Across the IT industry I don't know if IBM's case was exceptional or not.

Bill Gates and others in the IT industry want expanded work visas for skilled foreigners as a way of keeping wages down for IT workers. Microsoft's cash reserves are now at $68bln, so it's hard to make the case that high labor costs are preventing them from expanding the business.

 

[zedd]

Good question. When I started in the field around 1980 it was called Data Processing. I worked as a low level software coder for a government agency (GCOS anyone?) Right around '86 the field became known as Management Information Systems. Some time later just plain old Information Systems -- proving that management was clueless anyway. Sometime around 2000 it became IT (Information Technology).

What does IT actually mean now these days? It means being able to collaborate with others in multiple timezones.

Zedd

 

[haha]

Your kids are in IT, however they speak of it.

Outsourcing was certainly part of it. About 7 or 8 years ago IBM announced it would outsource 75% of its jobs, mostly to India. I haven't kept tally, but there have been numerous announcements of layoffs from IBM since. So, I assume that they did what they said they were going to do. Across the IT industry I don't know if IBM's case was exceptional or not.

Bill Gates and others in the IT industry want expanded work visas for skilled foreigners as a way of keeping wages down for IT workers. Microsoft's cash reserves are now at $68bln, so it's hard to make the case that high labor costs are preventing them from expanding the business.

It is not about labor costs, but more about a lack of enough highly prepared and capable us workers.

Your question is obviously answered by checking the employment at Amazon, MS, Google, Yahoo, etc etc. Their US employment is many times what it was in 1990, 2000,etc.

What the US wants instead of highly educated and well behaved scientists and developers and engineers is lot of poor, uneducated people from all over the world, but especially from south.

Go figure.

Ha

 

[growing_older]

Generally the term IT (Information Technology) is used to refer to the people responsible for either making business software or more commonly deploying computers, technology and increasingly hand held devices and keeping them running on all the various desks and work locations in a company. Most people in software development positions or developing hardware or software products do not refer to themselves as IT, but the distinction is blurry and different companies use the terms differently and sometimes interchangeably.

 

[supernova72]

Oh how art imitates life. From the movie "Margin Call":

John Tuld: So, what you're telling me, is that the music is about to stop, and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism.

Peter Sullivan: Sir, I not sure that I would put it that way, but let me clarify using your analogy. What this model shows is the music, so to speak, just slowing. If the music were to stop, as you put it, then this model wouldn't even be close to that scenario. It would be considerably worse.

John Tuld: Let me tell you something, Mr. Sullivan. Do you care to know why I'm in this chair with you all? I mean, why I earn the big bucks.

Peter Sullivan: Yes.

John Tuld: I'm here for one reason and one reason alone. I'm hear to guess what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. That's it. Nothing more. And standing here tonight, I'm afraid that I don't hear - a - thing. Just... silence.

Extreme use of leverage on exotic financial instruments led to the '07 global margin call. Thusly played out in the movie.

Bleeding edge technology outsourced to providers around the globe, a product delivered almost three years late, perhaps leading to the '87 global margin call. Thusly played out in real life.

Just sayin.

Full disclosure: Zedd works for the same megacorp as the OP. Received my invitaton for a voluntary lay off (VLO). package on Friday. I think I'll take it.

As Edward R Murrow used to say "Good night and good luck".

zedd

Thanks for the update Zedd. Turns out after a week of banging through numbers and wondering if the VLO was right for me our organization did not ge the "VLO Letter" on Friday. Apparently our org is not in a surplus condition (didn't know that for sure" so unless they submitted surplus job codes you can't take advantage of it).

It's too bad for one of our staff since she is of retirement age and was looking forward to the 6 months pay and calling it an IT career.

We are a pretty small team and have not been backfilling for more than a year now. That may have been why we were not VLO candidates.

So I'll say congrats to you in having the opportunity to take advantage of this one time offer. I'll keep an eye on the CoE's for you. Not exactly sure where from yet

Could be a lot worse indeed.

 

[zedd]

Your kids are in IT, however they speak of it.

Outsourcing was certainly part of it. About 7 or 8 years ago IBM announced it would outsource 75% of its jobs, mostly to India. I haven't kept tally, but there have been numerous announcements of layoffs from IBM since. So, I assume that they did what they said they were going to do. Across the IT industry I don't know if IBM's case was exceptional or not.

Bill Gates and others in the IT industry want expounded work visas for skilled foreigners as a way of keeping wages down for IT workers. Microsoft's cash reserves are now at $68bln, so it's hard to make the case that high labor costs are preventing them from expanding the business.

Call up the balance sheet for any fortune 50 company. What stands out -- they are sitting on a mountain of cash.

The emphasis has gone from stakeholder (employer, employee, customer, supplier) to stockholder to corporate entity (whats in it for me.)

Zedd

 

[Mulligan]

The STL paper has been mentioning the transfer of the 600 jobs from Seattle. Of course it is being written about as a positive event for the city. The paper cited two reasons for part of the reason. The average IT job salary is $15,000 cheaper in STL, than in Seattle. They also mentioned a second reason that I found interesting. They don't have to worry about the other corps such as Microsoft up there stealing their workers or having to fight escalating salary offers to keep employees. Paper referred to the possibility that they wanted to be the ones stealing workers with better salary offers than what local upstart companies are paying here. But of course at lower salaries than presently paying in Seattle.

 

[haha]

Generally the term IT (Information Technology) is used to refer to the people responsible for either making business software or more commonly deploying computers, technology and increasingly hand held devices and keeping them running on all the various desks and work locations in a company. Most people in software development positions or developing hardware or software products do not refer to themselves as IT, but the distinction is blurry and different companies use the terms differently and sometimes interchangeably.

Thank you, this explains for me very well.

Ha

 

[Khufu]

Call up the balance sheet for any fortune 50 company. What stands out -- they are sitting on a mountain of cash.

The emphasis has gone from stakeholder (employer, employee, customer, supplier) to stockholder to corporate entity (whats in it for me.)

Zedd

Yet dividends are still pretty low historically. Seems like management has been claiming an ever larger share of the pie at the expense of both shareholders and employees. Microsoft is not paying out any substantial portion of that $68bln in dividends, you'll notice.

 

[Chuckanut]

Call up the balance sheet for any fortune 50 company. What stands out -- they are sitting on a mountain of cash.

I wonder how much of that is from foreign earnings? American Corps have huge amount of earnings overseas that they are hesitant to bring home because they must pay a full income tax on it. Most foreign countries do not tax income earned in other countries.

Perhaps, if we lowered the tax rate on those earnings to say 5-10% we might see a lot more of it invested here. And get a small boost in government revenues.

 

[explanade]

I think there's a lot of talk about tax holidays. Fact that there is talk indicates corporations are seeding that talk and probably lobbying for it.

Even though many of the biggest corporations pay no or low taxes already.

If they brought those profits home, there's no guarantee they'd invest in jobs here. Presumably a lot of those profits were earned from low-cost labor overseas.