Retire next year at 45?

[ElizabethT]

My sister lives in Danville. They have a nice house worth, I don't really know, maybe 1.5mil. She made the decision to send her kids to private school. Both her boys went to college and one has a PhD in physics and is now doing a postdoc at Stanford, the younger one is doing a PhD at Rice University.

I stand by my earlier statement, I would send any kids to private school today. Even the best of the public schools just aren't what they used to be.

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This was not our experience. We selected our California city carefully, based primarily on its public school ranking, and its method of determining who has access to Honors and AP courses. These courses allow motivated students to find each other and engage in a very demanding learning environment that leaves them well prepared for college. I can point to former classmate after classmate of my children that went to top tier universities, then on to highly paying professions as a result. My own children as well. Both qualified for, and attended top tier universities based on their public school performance, moved on to graduate degrees, and now have well paying careers.

 

[TallTim]

We've lived in CA since '05 -- NorCal first and now SoCal since '08 -- all for work, pre FIRE. We expect to stay where we are until DD (class of 16) and DS (class of 17) finish high school and then we will likely move from our current place, but will almost certainly stay in CA.

In terms of cities around the Bay Area, I agree w the other comments that the East Bay areas are a good mix of (relative) affordability and close enough to take advantage of the benefits of Oakland and SF, particularly Pleasanton, Danville and also Concord, Walnut Creek and Lafayette. For a litte more $ you can also find great houses and the few good close-in public schools in Piedmont-Montclair. We looked for a house in Piedmont in 05, but couldn't find anything to buy and were in a mega-corp relocation program and didn't have a lot of time to be choosy. We ended up in Pleasanton b/c of commute time and schools and were happy with the choice.

As far as SoCal goes, we live in one of the so-called beach cities (Manhattan Beach) west of LA proper, and our schools are very good - but housing is very pricey. We chose it when we moved south based on work proximity (vs horrible LA traffic) and good public schools. Both DW and I went public schools and we wanted to send our kids to public school for lots of reasons.

In terms of SoCal cities, I agree with the comments about the mentioned places south of OC and north of SD, but would also add consideration for places like Playa Del Rey, Palos Verdes and even El Segundo in the LA area. Further north, you might like San Luis Obispo and the towns adjacent to Big Sur; the further north that way you go, the more isolated, but more house for your money.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think with K-12 and colleges, and having to move near a good feeder school for a good college you have to consider what is your own personal definition of a good college. Some possible criteria may include:

The ones with the best:
Luxury brand marketing departments
Highest salaries post college
Lowest cost
Best lowest tuition cost per starting salary ratio
Best offering of STEM majors
School where your kids can be the smartest kid in the class or a face in the crowd
Have homework all weekend in K-12
Best local weather and scenery
Have a shot at big law or Supreme court justice
Highest rates of depression from the intense pressure
Learn to be the most altruistic or the most materialistic
Get a job post college and be financially self supporting
Get the best internships
Acquire the most useful skill sets
Is in a city that makes snobby city lists
Can get the best GPA
Most diversity

Based on their data analysis Google doesn't even care about college degrees any longer, let alone school choice:
Why Google doesn't care about college degrees, in 5 quotes | VentureBeat | Education | by Gregory Ferenstein

With our own kids we did will on some of the factors above, and made some mistakes by having our kids attend schools where the general focus didn't always align with our own family values. What really helped for college was focusing on the payscale salary by college, salary by major and net tuition cost reports and factors like diversity. Now there is also the college scorecard:

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

 

[Texan1636]

I loved this post and the responses. As the OP knows (he commented on my revived thread in this forum in the last week or so), I am in a similar net worth situation, but I'm slightly older and we are empty-nesters. Interestingly, we raised our child in a highly affluent neighborhood in our city, and our child attended a prestigious private school from pre-K through 12th grade. I'm sure the peer pressure was not exactly the same as certain communities in CT, but there certainly were classmates whose families had private jets and there were a good deal of "new money-type" behaviors. I guess we were very fortunate that our child seems well-grounded and doesn't feel entitled. Our child understood that I had a very high income; we lived well but certainly not over the top by the standards of where we lived and where our child went to school - we emphasized saving and having enough to retire at a relatively young age. You just never know, I suppose. You do your best, but with kids I think there is a big element of "nature" as well as "nurture" in terms of what they will be like as adults.

 

[StuckinCT]

I think with K-12 and colleges, and having to move near a good feeder school for a good college you have to consider what is your own personal definition of a good college. Some possible criteria may include:

The ones with the best:
Luxury brand marketing departments
Highest salaries post college
Lowest cost
Best lowest tuition cost per starting salary ratio
Best offering of STEM majors
School where your kids can be the smartest kid in the class or a face in the crowd
Have homework all weekend in K-12
Best local weather and scenery
Have a shot at big law or Supreme court justice
Highest rates of depression from the intense pressure
Learn to be the most altruistic or the most materialistic
Get a job post college and be financially self supporting
Get the best internships
Acquire the most useful skill sets
Is in a city that makes snobby city lists
Can get the best GPA
Most diversity

Based on their data analysis Google doesn't even care about college degrees any longer, let alone school choice:
Why Google doesn't care about college degrees, in 5 quotes | VentureBeat | Education | by Gregory Ferenstein

With our own kids we did will on some of the factors above, and made some mistakes by having our kids attend schools where the general focus didn't always align with our own family values. What really helped for college was focusing on the payscale salary by college, salary by major and net tuition cost reports and factors like diversity. Now there is also the college scorecard:

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

This is a good question. Although many of our friends have Ivy League degrees, my wife is a UConn grad and I graduated from Farfield U, which is a good regional college. My feeling is unless you get into one of the top liberal arts colleges such as Middlebury, Williams or an Ivy, I think saving the money at a good state school for postgrad is probably the way to go. California and New York probably have the widest selection of state schools, which was one of the main reasons I started looking at Cali. I think I should revisit it.

 

[StuckinCT]

I loved this post and the responses. As the OP knows (he commented on my revived thread in this forum in the last week or so), I am in a similar net worth situation, but I'm slightly older and we are empty-nesters. Interestingly, we raised our child in a highly affluent neighborhood in our city, and our child attended a prestigious private school from pre-K through 12th grade. I'm sure the peer pressure was not exactly the same as certain communities in CT, but there certainly were classmates whose families had private jets and there were a good deal of "new money-type" behaviors. I guess we were very fortunate that our child seems well-grounded and doesn't feel entitled. Our child understood that I had a very high income; we lived well but certainly not over the top by the standards of where we lived and where our child went to school - we emphasized saving and having enough to retire at a relatively young age. You just never know, I suppose. You do your best, but with kids I think there is a big element of "nature" as well as "nurture" in terms of what they will be like as adults.

Texan, I thought the same of your post, I think we are at a similar point in life, and not just in dollar terms. In my line of work and it sounds like yours, there simply is no kicking back, you'll get devoured. I hate it when people talk about their 5:00 am work-out to catch the 6:15 train for a fourteen hour day so I'll just say that you know when it's time. I am looking forward to the next chapter, it will be a BIG change and I hope I can adjust. I have a lot of activities planned and my kids will be a big part of it.

 

[StuckinCT]

I like Laguna Niguel, San Clemente, San Juan Capistrano, but there are other new homes near by for South California, south of Laguna. For Northern California. Pleasanton, Danville, San Ramon. These are areas that I have researched before, nice decent not too pricey. But I'm sure it depends on the house size and yard, you could find house less than $ 1.7 million, most likely around $1.3 million for a nice, I last checked on redfin about 3000sqft+.
I don't know the San Diego area but I don't think they are as expensive as South Orange County and the Bay Area.


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I'll definitely check those areas out, 1.3 is in our budget with lower taxes; I'm hoping to find something with at least two acres 3500 sf under $1mm. Not sure that's possible in Cali, but it is worth a second look.

 

[StuckinCT]

We've lived in CA since '05 -- NorCal first and now SoCal since '08 -- all for work, pre FIRE. We expect to stay where we are until DD (class of 16) and DS (class of 17) finish high school and then we will likely move from our current place, but will almost certainly stay in CA.

In terms of cities around the Bay Area, I agree w the other comments that the East Bay areas are a good mix of (relative) affordability and close enough to take advantage of the benefits of Oakland and SF, particularly Pleasanton, Danville and also Concord, Walnut Creek and Lafayette. For a litte more $ you can also find great houses and the few good close-in public schools in Piedmont-Montclair. We looked for a house in Piedmont in 05, but couldn't find anything to buy and were in a mega-corp relocation program and didn't have a lot of time to be choosy. We ended up in Pleasanton b/c of commute time and schools and were happy with the choice.

As far as SoCal goes, we live in one of the so-called beach cities (Manhattan Beach) west of LA proper, and our schools are very good - but housing is very pricey. We chose it when we moved south based on work proximity (vs horrible LA traffic) and good public schools. Both DW and I went public schools and we wanted to send our kids to public school for lots of reasons.

In terms of SoCal cities, I agree with the comments about the mentioned places south of OC and north of SD, but would also add consideration for places like Playa Del Rey, Palos Verdes and even El Segundo in the LA area. Further north, you might like San Luis Obispo and the towns adjacent to Big Sur; the further north that way you go, the more isolated, but more house for your money.

Good info on on Bay Area and SoCal. My second cousin lives in Manhatten Beach. I'll check those areas out. Danville has been mentioned. Oakland scares me and when I saw Concord on a map, I noticed the proximity. I think the one thing CT has going for it is that it is probably the safest place in the country. It amazes me how San Diego is such a great city when you have all of that drug cartel violence just over the border, I don't have to tell you how bad it is. We have the drug thing here except meth thankfully and you just have to pray all that parenting and nurturing keeps them out of trouble.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Good info on on Bay Area and SoCal. My second cousin lives in Manhatten Beach. I'll check those areas out. Danville has been mentioned. Oakland scares me and when I saw Concord on a map, I noticed the proximity.

Here is a California safe cities list:

California Crime Index City Rank

I doubt you would fit in well in Concord, but proximity to Oakland is not the reason. Oakland actually has some very upscale areas and there are cities like Orinda which are very low crime and much closer to Oakland than Concord. When we were thinking about downsizing I wrote in the median price per square foot for housing on some of the low crime cities to come up with some good candidate locations to check out.

 

[StuckinCT]

Here is a California safe cities list:

California Crime Index City Rank

I doubt you would fit in well in Concord, but proximity to Oakland is not the reason. Oakland actually has some very upscale areas and there are cities like Orinda which are very low crime and much closer to Oakland than Concord. When we were thinking about downsizing I wrote in the median price per square foot for housing on some of the low crime cities to come up with some good candidate locations to check out.

Interesting; in CT we definitely have some dangerous areas but the crime is confined to those areas for the most part, sounds the same in Cali. I will say though, that some of the higher end Gold Coast towns are located right next to some of these areas and it enables some of the teenagers to get involved with bad things.

 

[pb4uski]

If crime is a concern you can't get much more safe than Burlington. Violent crime is a fraction of the national violent crime rate.

Burlington, VT | Find Your Spot

 

[Fedup]

You won't find 2 acres for under $1.0 million. But there are areas with large land such as FallBrook and Bonsall near Camp Pendleton. Rolling Hills and Rancho Palos Verdes in LA county. If you can stand the heat, Yorba Linda, Fullerton and Villa Park in Orange County.
My kid lives in Manhattan beach, renting of course, but I don't care for the area, I would think that's the area you need to keep up with the Jones.
You have to do a balance act of all your wants and needs.
I've lived in areas that schools are ranked in top 100 and top 300 US news and if your kids are not naturally the competitive type, they will suffer. And those areas have significantly higher Asian students. Those areas I mentioned were not.
Nothing wrong with Asian students, just want to mention, that's probably one of the reasons why the school district is competitive.
You might want to move soon because the cost of in state tuition at a UC is far superior than a pricy large private school, IMHO.


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[daylatedollarshort]

I've lived in areas that schools are ranked in top 100 and top 300 US news and if your kids are not naturally the competitive type, they will suffer.

Our kids were pleasantly surprised to find that college was easier than high school. One in particular has really thrived in a less competitive environment, even though his public 4 year school has a large student body, it has kids from all walks of life. That part has also been good on the entitlement front, seeing that other kids have to worry about what they are going to do if their car needs repairs and they can't just call the bank of mom and dad.

 

[nash031]

Texan, I thought the same of your post, I think we are at a similar point in life, and not just in dollar terms. In my line of work and it sounds like yours, there simply is no kicking back, you'll get devoured. I hate it when people talk about their 5:00 am work-out to catch the 6:15 train for a fourteen hour day so I'll just say that you know when it's time. I am looking forward to the next chapter, it will be a BIG change and I hope I can adjust. I have a lot of activities planned and my kids will be a big part of it.

CT - I've read this thread... it's interesting as you seem to be that successful, very wealthy guy who "has it all" but isn't content. It's been interesting to read your story and your thoughts.

My line of work is far less lucrative, but often every bit as taxing as what you describe. People coming into work before 6AM, leaving after dinner, and then coming in on weekends. It's like a badge of honor. Ridiculous, IMO, especially because none of my contemporaries has $8.5MM saved, and I'd wager 95% don't have $1MM saved.

As for California, I'd love to recommend Coronado, but read you're looking for 2 acres under $1MM. It's out there in California, but you're going to be in relatively remote areas. Much like the northeast, the closer you get to the coast, the more packed in we get. $1.3MM in Coronado gets you 2000 sqft, but great schools, excellent walkability and easy access to what was recently voted "best beach in America."

Coastal California's expensive! And final bit of advice for when and if you move out here: don't call it "Cali"!

 

[Accidental Retiree]

CT -

As for California, I'd love to recommend Coronado, but read you're looking for 2 acres under $1MM. It's out there in California, but you're going to be in relatively remote areas. Much like the northeast, the closer you get to the coast, the more packed in we get. $1.3MM in Coronado gets you 2000 sqft, but great schools, excellent walkability and easy access to what was recently voted "best beach in America."

Coastal California's expensive! And final bit of advice for when and if you move out here: don't call it "Cali"!

Ditto on the "Cali." It's like nails on a chalkboard to many out here.

If you'd consider Fallbrook, then you may also consider parts of Temecula and Murrieta.
These towns are in SW Riverside Co,. They're safe and have good schools. You should find something with the acreage you want that's within your price range.

It gets hot out here--but it's a dry heat, and we get really nice afternoon breezes.


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[Gumby]

Interesting; in CT we definitely have some dangerous areas but the crime is confined to those areas for the most part, sounds the same in Cali. I will say though, that some of the higher end Gold Coast towns are located right next to some of these areas and it enables some of the teenagers to get involved with bad things.

If they are so inclined, teenagers will find a way to get involved with bad things regardless of where you live.

 

[OrcasIslandBound]

There is a beautiful area of Poway on a road called "High Valley Road" within the Poway school district. There are plenty of homes for around a million with 2 1/2 acres. It is a very nice area. I've attached a random one that I found on zillow. We have friends who live in this area, they love it.

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[Brat]

I live in Portland. If you want the PNW lifestyle then look at the Lincoln High School feeder neighborhoods or if suburban then West Linn. If Lincoln explore what it takes to get into the Multnomah Athletic Club even if it means being on a wait list years long.

I worked in NYC metro and loved it, vacationed in Vermont. Oregon is as close as you can get to that culture without the brutal winters.

Heck, you can spend as much as you want for housing anywhere, the big question is where your family be happy and your children prepared for the future.

 

[StuckinCT]

CT - I've read this thread... it's interesting as you seem to be that successful, very wealthy guy who "has it all" but isn't content. It's been interesting to read your story and your thoughts.

My line of work is far less lucrative, but often every bit as taxing as what you describe. People coming into work before 6AM, leaving after dinner, and then coming in on weekends. It's like a badge of honor. Ridiculous, IMO, especially because none of my contemporaries has $8.5MM saved, and I'd wager 95% don't have $1MM saved.

As for California, I'd love to recommend Coronado, but read you're looking for 2 acres under $1MM. It's out there in California, but you're going to be in relatively remote areas. Much like the northeast, the closer you get to the coast, the more packed in we get. $1.3MM in Coronado gets you 2000 sqft, but great schools, excellent walkability and easy access to what was recently voted "best beach in America."

Coastal California's expensive! And final bit of advice for when and if you move out here: don't call it "Cali"!

Nash, too funny re "Cali". I'm pretty sure I picked it up from yet another second cousin in Santa Cruz. Anyway, I have to say that I am quite surprised by the outpouring of advice from California, when I started this thread with no intention of moving to California! Perhaps there is a wavelength going on here that is directing me there- I appreciate it. As for not being content, if I did not have my great family I would probably have a real problem. They keep me grounded but you make a good point. I'll check out Coronado too but one thing about me is I am not your typical beach person, my nick name is white bread. I am wondering if my Grateful Dead background in high school and college is calling my name, or maybe there are just a lot of people from California contemplating early retirement.

 

[StuckinCT]

I live in Portland. If you want the PNW lifestyle then look at the Lincoln High School feeder neighborhoods or if suburban then West Linn. If Lincoln explore what it takes to get into the Multnomah Athletic Club even if it means being on a wait list years long.

I worked in NYC metro and loved it, vacationed in Vermont. Oregon is as close as you can get to that culture without the brutal winters.

Heck, you can spend as much as you want for housing anywhere, the big question is where your family be happy and your children prepared for the future.

Brat, that was sort of what I was thinking, I also appreciate the school advice. West Linn seems like a great town w great schools and my wife has a friend who went to Lincoln. Thanks.

 

[StuckinCT]

You won't find 2 acres for under $1.0 million. But there are areas with large land such as FallBrook and Bonsall near Camp Pendleton. Rolling Hills and Rancho Palos Verdes in LA county. If you can stand the heat, Yorba Linda, Fullerton and Villa Park in Orange County.
My kid lives in Manhattan beach, renting of course, but I don't care for the area, I would think that's the area you need to keep up with the Jones.
You have to do a balance act of all your wants and needs.
I've lived in areas that schools are ranked in top 100 and top 300 US news and if your kids are not naturally the competitive type, they will suffer. And those areas have significantly higher Asian students. Those areas I mentioned were not.
Nothing wrong with Asian students, just want to mention, that's probably one of the reasons why the school district is competitive.
You might want to move soon because the cost of in state tuition at a UC is far superior than a pricy large private school, IMHO.


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Fed up, I'll check out those areas as they have not been on my radar. It just blows me away how many different neighborhoods there are out there. As for kids, I agree that hyper competitive can be bad. We have twelve years before the first goes to college so hopefully we can figure it out by then.

 

[StuckinCT]

There is a beautiful area of Poway on a road called "High Valley Road" within the Poway school district. There are plenty of homes for around a million with 2 1/2 acres. It is a very nice area. I've attached a random one that I found on zillow. We have friends who live in this area, they love it.

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Orcas, wow that is a lot of house for 1.2. I need to do some more investigating. It seems like there are a lot of happy people slightly inland. Looks like you are close to Ranch Santa Fe which is like our neighboring town New Canaan. It surprises me that a town so close would be in that price range.

 

[ElizabethT]

Ditto on the "Cali." It's like nails on a chalkboard to many out here. ��

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Oh, yes. Native Californian here, and using 'Cali' is a sure sign you are not.

SoCal, NorCal both work. So does California.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Is there a reason you need 2 acres? I think you'd have to move pretty far out of town in the SF Bay Area to get 2 acres for $1.3M, but then again there are many large parks and open space areas here within the urban metro area itself. For $1.3M you could live within the metro area but also near a Redwood grove, a state park or large regional park with a reservoir, hiking and camping.

 

[StuckinCT]

I think we could be perfectly happy on even a half an acre in coastal California in a 1.3 home, but it would not be my dream situation, even in the coastal communities. In CT, to be on the water is at least 4mm and I have friends with 10mm houses and know it is even crazier there. My wife is from Oregon and California is her dream. I can't deal with traffic, we have some in CT but nothing like what you have. The weather is awesome out there but I'm not sure I could handle no seasons. I lived in Florida and it was not for me. I think it is what you are used to. I grew up wearing wool LL Bean sweaters and docksiders. I do think my attitude is sort of west coast, I have some theories but will spare you. The reason for wanting a large property was to have a homestead type of situation, chickens, fruit trees, garden, maybe even a pond or some type of water feature. I think in California you have to be a park/ beach person. But there are some incredible parks out there...