"Retired" nurse struggling to stay retired.

[CK2015]

I think nwsteve's suggestion is your best option to keep afloat. That's going to put you at loggerheads with your mom but it seems like in your case, you're going to have to choose between keeping your mom happy and risk destitution yourself, or considering your own welfare.

In the Latin Immigrant community children are expected to take care of their parents at all costs. I am the daughter of a Latin Immigrant. I wish it were so easy to just do it the American way, I feel very American because I was born and raised in this country but traditions in our culture go deep on this subject.

The rational is that they sacrificed their lives to bring us here for a better life so we sort of owe it to them. I know that's a hard concept for most Americans to grasp but in essence I have to pay her back for my freedom so to speak.

And as a single lady even more so since I have no family obligations. So I have become the unofficial meal ticket. When I lived with my Mom which I did for 35 years she would ask me several times a year to turn over my paycheck to her as she had done with her parents. She felt she could manage the finances much better than I was since she saw me spending lots of money. Yes I did spend lots of money but I was also making lots and wanted to travel and have a nice car and home. But when I woke up and realized what I was doing it was too late. Our lives were too intertwined. She would be happy for me to move back in with her and that's always an option but in her mind she is the Queen Bee. I hope I am not sounding so selfish but at this stage of my life I do not want to fight with nor have to ask permission to live my life as I see fit. Single latin ladies must do as their parents see even if they are 80. It's a crazy culture.

 

[CK2015]

eBay can be a great money maker but it can be a bit dangerous to rely on one online source for 100% of your income. They can kick you out for non compliance (fairly or not), raise their rates, a competitor can undercut you or 100 other things can make your income disappear overnight. It is tough to have to make fixed overhead payments like a mortgage on a variable income.

I am not sure from what you wrote so far you have enough money to support yourself much longer at your current burn rate let alone your mom without running completely out of money before too long. It is good to try to make more money but eBay is pretty competitive and you can't count on that idea to solve your financial issues, especially given your limited ability to work.

I think your first step should be lowering your overhead and talking to an elder care attorney and social worker. I agree with the other posters who suggested you get your mom out of the $375K house one way or another. She could live to be 100 and you would be broke before then. Maybe you could support her in a nice park model in a 55+ community or look into entitlement programs for whatever she can qualify for. You don't have to abandon her but the reality is when the main breadwinner in a family loses $100K type career expenses cannot remain the same. I have a friend of a friend who always found great places for his elderly mother to live and paid for by Medicaid or other types of entitlement programs. A lot of millionaire next door types live in houses that cost less than $375K.

I know what you are saying about ebay as I am involved with several ebay groups on Facebook and it has happened to a few of them. Mostly over problems that could have been addressed in the categories that they are selling in. I doubt it would happen in the category I sell in since there are no brand names involved, it's all generic one of a kind for the most part merchandise because I and Mom make a lot of it. Many of the people you see losing their livelihood on ebay and Amazon is because they sold fakes without realizing it as some of the suppliers may have sold them counterfeit goods or they were just not practicing best business practices and not servicing their customers correctly. The majority of people that I know have been selling since the site began and have never had a problem with their accounts. But if it ever happened there are ways to get around that problem using stealth accounts. It's a pain in the butt but many have had to go that route since there is no other sales channel for the items they sell. Hopefully it will never come to that.

I'd say I have enough to sustain me for 6 months if my sales continue as they are and I am going into 4th quarter so that shouldn't be a problem until the end of the year in the least and possibly further along into the new year.

And Mom would never move to a mobile home. We don't even have many here anyway since they are dwindling due to hurricane codes. The option for her would be a condo in a senior community. We have lots of those but they are in the next county up and she would have to give up her medical clinic doctors and she's of course again not willing to do that. It's her medicare paid social club where she hangs out at the gym, takes computer classes, learns knitting, eats lunch and gets her toe nails done. Why would she give that up? They even have birthday parties and all sorts of other parties for their members. But you are right she could very well live to be 100 with that kind of health care. LOL

 

[Walt34]

I hope I am not sounding so selfish but at this stage of my life I do not want to fight with nor have to ask permission to live my life as I see fit. Single latin ladies must do as their parents see even if they are 80. It's a crazy culture.

You are not being selfish for wanting to live your own life. However, the culture, and how anyone feels about it, is not going to change the math.

Eventually and inevitably, sure as tomorrow's sunrise (although hopefully not quite so soon) one or both of the homes is going to be sold, either by you and your mom or the bank after it forecloses.

See the attorney. Perhaps he/she will come up with a workable solution or get your mom to understand that she cannot stay where she is.

 

[CK2015]

I agree with daylatedollarshort that you need to discuss this with an elder law attorney. Right now, with cash in the bank you have options. As the cash dwindles, so do your options. The two homes are simply not sustainable and eventually someone, either you and your mom or the bank will, after they foreclose. So you need to discuss with the elder law attorney how to make that sale happen.

Here is one site to find an attorney, or call the local bar association, or if you have an attorney ask for a referral.

ElderLawAnswers

Thanks for the link. Interesting reading.
I'm going to be busy.

You are not being selfish for wanting to live your own life. However, the culture, and how anyone feels about it, is not going to change the math.

Eventually and inevitably, sure as tomorrow's sunrise (although hopefully not quite so soon) one or both of the homes is going to be sold, either by you and your mom or the bank after it forecloses.

See the attorney. Perhaps he/she will come up with a workable solution or get your mom to understand that she cannot stay where she is.

Oh I wouldn't let it get to that point.
If I had to I could rent out my place and just move to a cheaper place.
We could potentially drop the homeowners insurance again on the house although I agree that's extremely risky but we didn't have it for 5 years while Mom controlled her own finances.

I still can take that 457 money out and kick this can down the road.
Hopefully ebay will pick up by then and all my hard work pays off but so much is out of my full control.

 

[CK2015]

On airplanes, they tell you to put on your own oxygen mask first, then the kid's. That is because if you pass out, you can't help them later.

LOL. I am certainly the parent now in this situation, but this kid is a total brat and is having a temper tantrum every time the subject is brought up.
I know it's a cop out but right now it's hard for me to deal with her and all my own personal health issues at the same time.
I just don't have it in me anymore.

 

[CK2015]

As many other have noted, seeing an elder care attorney is important. How you handle the disposition of assets now may affect your mother's eligibility for benefits later. There is a 5 year look back period for Medicaid long-term care assistance.

Counties in Florida have a department on aging. You can contact them and you will be assigned a caseworker to help navigate the bureaucracy.

Does your mother understand that your situation is unsustainable? If YOU cannot convince her that it is, is there someone else (your brother, other family, friends) that could help her see the light and agree to let go of the real estate?

You WILL get through this.

My Dad was a veteran so I believe she would qualify for VA assistance if she became disabled. I've vaguely looked into it but by getting her the $2K a month assistance and having the county waive the property taxes I think if she was to become disabled I'd actually be better off than I am now. LOL.

Right now her sister my 89 year old Auntie fell and broke her hip. She is in a rehab hospital right now and she owns no home since she was living with Mom. She gets a little more in SS than Mom and gets a small mortgage. I don't really have much faith that she will be walking again though. I'm going to see how it plays out with her and going to a permanent nursing home situation. I'm hoping that once Mom sees how well she does without any assets that she will understand that having paper assets is of no use to her if she's in need of care.
Although I am a nurse I have told her that I cannot and will not be able to take care of her if something happens to her. I've also told her to do the same with me should I become incapacitated and just put me out to pasture too.

That 5 year look back from what I understand can be taken care of by a lawyer with a Lady Bird deed. My sister in law had to do that with her Mother who was on dialysis and blind in the end of her years and when she died they were able to sell the home without a problem of the nursing home getting everything.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

And Mom would never move to a mobile home. We don't even have many here anyway since they are dwindling due to hurricane codes. The option for her would be a condo in a senior community. We have lots of those but they are in the next county up and she would have to give up her medical clinic doctors and she's of course again not willing to do that. It's her medicare paid social club where she hangs out at the gym, takes computer classes, learns knitting, eats lunch and gets her toe nails done. Why would she give that up? They even have birthday parties and all sorts of other parties for their members. But you are right she could very well live to be 100 with that kind of health care. LOL

As Walt said, there is your culture, and there is what your mom is willing or not willing to do, there's you not wanting to live with your mom and then there's math. Math always wins out in the end.

 

[hnzw_rui]

In the Latin Immigrant community children are expected to take care of their parents at all costs. I am the daughter of a Latin Immigrant. I wish it were so easy to just do it the American way, I feel very American because I was born and raised in this country but traditions in our culture go deep on this subject.

The rational is that they sacrificed their lives to bring us here for a better life so we sort of owe it to them. I know that's a hard concept for most Americans to grasp but in essence I have to pay her back for my freedom so to speak.

And as a single lady even more so since I have no family obligations. So I have become the unofficial meal ticket. When I lived with my Mom which I did for 35 years she would ask me several times a year to turn over my paycheck to her as she had done with her parents. She felt she could manage the finances much better than I was since she saw me spending lots of money. Yes I did spend lots of money but I was also making lots and wanted to travel and have a nice car and home. But when I woke up and realized what I was doing it was too late. Our lives were too intertwined. She would be happy for me to move back in with her and that's always an option but in her mind she is the Queen Bee. I hope I am not sounding so selfish but at this stage of my life I do not want to fight with nor have to ask permission to live my life as I see fit. Single latin ladies must do as their parents see even if they are 80. It's a crazy culture.

I'm Asian and grew up in the Philippines. The cultural norms are actually pretty similar.

Prior to my maternal grandmother's death, my mom was sending her money every month and helped her with unexpected hospital bills. She was living independently in a condo but after her last hospitalization and needing 24/7 care, we convinced her to live with my aunt so my aunt can have greater oversight on her care and expenses. I also send my paternal grandmother money every month to pay for her meds so I know about being obligated to help your elders.

And yes, I actually still live with my parents. My mom and I are the primary breadwinners in the family. I expect that to continue even after I retire so I'm taking measures now to ensure I can continue helping support them. It's a good thing I don't plan on getting married.

That said, I don't cede my entire paycheck to her although I do give her more than half of my take-home pay apart from paying for utilities and vehicle expenses. Admittedly, mom is much, much more frugal than I so savings rate will likely be a lot higher if I let her manage my money. Alas, she's also extremely risk averse so long run, inflation will probably eat away at the savings so I manage her 457 investments.

I really hope you're successful in your ebay business. However, I have to say your current situation makes me nervous.

 

[Whisper66]

My workable plan is online sales. I took this ebay gig from making 7K a year to 45K a year in two years.......

I'm also a realtor too, but since I cannot drive much have not done much with it lately..........have toyed with doing hard money lending. I'm a member of a local real estate investors club and they pay 10% a year for partnering up with their auction purchases.

(1) If all went well with your online sales - what do you think your yearly profit (not gross) could be given your current time / ability to work?

(2) I'd be very reluctant to further real estate investment unless it is sure to provide a steady income with little risk of needing large amounts of cash to fix issues in the properties.....I'm not into real estate so you probably have a much better feel for this... but I haven't got the feeling that is typical situation for new investments.

I really hope all works out well for you but, as others have said, your situation looks very concerning to me. Hopefully some of the posted comments/ideas will be helpful.

 

[Sunset]

Thanks for the link. Interesting reading.
I'm going to be busy.



Oh I wouldn't let it get to that point.
If I had to I could rent out my place and just move to a cheaper place.
We could potentially drop the homeowners insurance again on the house although I agree that's extremely risky but we didn't have it for 5 years while Mom controlled her own finances.

I still can take that 457 money out and kick this can down the road.
Hopefully ebay will pick up by then and all my hard work pays off but so much is out of my full control.

All of these answers are terrible choices that you are thinking are answers because they are quick, easy and you don't see the Bigger problem they create.
You rent out your place and move to a cheaper place (by the time you subtract your rent from the other costs of your place you are still losing money each month and now risk of damage by tenants.)

Drop homeowners insurance - nice that you skipped by earlier for 5 years, but it just takes 1 hurricane to destroy the house and you lose everything.

Take out 457 money, you possibly pay penalty, no longer have the savings, and then go bankrupt and end up with nothing. By keeping your money within Retirement accounts it is sheltered from bankruptcy (which is where you are headed).

 

[CK2015]

As Walt said, there is your culture, and there is what your mom is willing or not willing to do, there's you not wanting to live with your mom and then there's math. Math always wins out in the end.

True that numbers do not lie but I still believe in miracles.
I guess that's the nurse still in me.

 

[Sunset]

Read the other thread, and see you are still looking for the magic answer.

You need to sell your house or the house you own jointly with your mom, (since you bought it, tell her the house has to be in your name only). And if you sell your house, suck it up and live with her.

You alluded to giving your mom money but didn't say how much and that your Italian brother does not (is that the culture?). Does she really need it? Does she not get a pension ?
If you truly need to give her money for food (you cannot afford for shopping trips), then do it as a 1099 as you get to deduct it, and she will be a 0% tax rate probably.

 

[CK2015]

I'm Asian and grew up in the Philippines. The cultural norms are actually pretty similar.

Prior to my maternal grandmother's death, my mom was sending her money every month and helped her with unexpected hospital bills. She was living independently in a condo but after her last hospitalization and needing 24/7 care, we convinced her to live with my aunt so my aunt can have greater oversight on her care and expenses. I also send my paternal grandmother money every month to pay for her meds so I know about being obligated to help your elders.

And yes, I actually still live with my parents. My mom and I are the primary breadwinners in the family. I expect that to continue even after I retire so I'm taking measures now to ensure I can continue helping support them. It's a good thing I don't plan on getting married.

That said, I don't cede my entire paycheck to her although I do give her more than half of my take-home pay apart from paying for utilities and vehicle expenses. Admittedly, mom is much, much more frugal than I so savings rate will likely be a lot higher if I let her manage my money. Alas, she's also extremely risk averse so long run, inflation will probably eat away at the savings so I manage her 457 investments.

I really hope you're successful in your ebay business. However, I have to say your current situation makes me nervous.

Yes it makes me nervous too and is why I found you guys in the first place.

And I know Filipino culture is the same. My best friend is Filipino and she's been supporting her Mom for probably 40 years now since she came to the USA but it's cheaper to send money "home" as she says than to bring her here. But she's got two other siblings helping her do the same thing so it's not as much of a burden.

Mom doesn't want to leave the US. She talked about it one time but her sister in the Dominican Republic died so she decided to dig in her heels here.

I've been out on the ledge for 3 years now so am getting used to the view.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

True that numbers do not lie but I still believe in miracles.
I guess that's the nurse still in me.

The problem with miracles is that they do not occur as often as foreclosures and bankruptcies. We have friends that lost their jobs, tried to hold on to the house and lifestyle until the bitter end, and ended up losing the house and along with it their equity. It was a really expensive house - if they had been more proactive and downsized the house and lifestyle early on they might have held on to some of their equity and still had a retirement nest egg.

Good for you for being proactive with the eBay business. I always have some kind of little online business or two going on myself. I hope it works out. But a thriving business and lower run rate combined will allow you to save more for retirement and give you more financial peace of mind. Good luck.

 

[CK2015]

(1) If all went well with your online sales - what do you think your yearly profit (not gross) could be given your current time / ability to work?

(2) I'd be very reluctant to further real estate investment unless it is sure to provide a steady income with little risk of needing large amounts of cash to fix issues in the properties.....I'm not into real estate so you probably have a much better feel for this... but I haven't got the feeling that is typical situation for new investments.

I really hope all works out well for you but, as others have said, your situation looks very concerning to me. Hopefully some of the posted comments/ideas will be helpful.

Honestly not sure how much profit I can make but if I didn't purchase any more inventory which honestly I believe I have enough for a few years, then I think I could pull at least 4-5K cleared out of the business. I don't think it's unrealistic as my biggest expense has been postage and purchasing inventory.

I have changed my business model to buy less finished product and just make my own designs and I can scale up and down depending on sales as opposed to being stuck with a lot of things that aren't selling which was a problem in years past.

Honestly real estate does not scare me. It's been good to me in the past and I don't see why it wouldn't continue to be so. But I do understand why it scares many. I have had my share of crazy tenants who have destroyed a few units but even so I still managed to make a profit. Maybe it was just luck.

 

[hnzw_rui]

Take out 457 money, you possibly pay penalty, no longer have the savings, and then go bankrupt and end up with nothing. By keeping your money within Retirement accounts it is sheltered from bankruptcy (which is where you are headed).

I've got a govt 457 and on our plan, we can withdraw funds anytime without penalty as long as we're already separated from service. I think I saw the OP mentioning working for a county hospital somewhere so it might be the same for her. Granted, losing liquid assets as she's planning to do scares me. And yep, I agree about keeping the ERISA protected assets intact.

 

[CK2015]

All of these answers are terrible choices that you are thinking are answers because they are quick, easy and you don't see the Bigger problem they create.
You rent out your place and move to a cheaper place (by the time you subtract your rent from the other costs of your place you are still losing money each month and now risk of damage by tenants.)

Drop homeowners insurance - nice that you skipped by earlier for 5 years, but it just takes 1 hurricane to destroy the house and you lose everything.

Take out 457 money, you possibly pay penalty, no longer have the savings, and then go bankrupt and end up with nothing. By keeping your money within Retirement accounts it is sheltered from bankruptcy (which is where you are headed).

I thought the 457 was deferred compensation and did not have a penalty, at least that is how they sold it to me.

And I don't really like the idea of dropping the homeowners insurance but you'd be surprised at how many people here do. The house has hurricane straps and shutters so could withstand a category 1 or 2 and survived Andrew but it's older now and could be a different story with a repeat category 5.

And yeah renting out my place isn't really what I want to do but I want to stay as long as possible as my area is really appreciating rapidly with all the cash investors coming here from Europe and South America. My condo building has passed up the bubble days. The chances of having someone destroy this unit are much less than in other parts of town. This area is mostly young professionals making good salaries and wanting to live near downtown.

Read the other thread, and see you are still looking for the magic answer.

You need to sell your house or the house you own jointly with your mom, (since you bought it, tell her the house has to be in your name only). And if you sell your house, suck it up and live with her.

You alluded to giving your mom money but didn't say how much and that your Italian brother does not (is that the culture?). Does she really need it? Does she not get a pension ?
If you truly need to give her money for food (you cannot afford for shopping trips), then do it as a 1099 as you get to deduct it, and she will be a 0% tax rate probably.

Of course I'm looking for magic. Isn't that what you guys and gals do here?

I give Mom about $700 a month. I don't physically give it to her, it goes into a joint account to pay the taxes and insurance on the house. She buys her own food and pays her own car expenses and utilities with her rent money from her sister and her SS check. It's complicated but we have a joint bank account but I am the only one who uses it. She has a credit union account for herself that I do not have access to. I have no idea what she has in there. Couldn't be much.

 

[CK2015]

The problem with miracles is that they do not occur as often as foreclosures and bankruptcies. We have friends that lost their jobs, tried to hold on to the house and lifestyle until the bitter end, and ended up losing the house and along with it their equity. It was a really expensive house - if they had been more proactive and downsized the house and lifestyle early on they might have held on to some of their equity and still had a retirement nest egg.

Good for you for being proactive with the eBay business. I always have some kind of little online business or two going on myself. I hope it works out. But a thriving business and lower run rate combined will allow you to save more for retirement and give you more financial peace of mind. Good luck.

I know this is a retirement forum and that my focus should be on retirement but all that money sitting there for my elder days would be wonderful except that life happens. If I found myself facing foreclosure I would certainly not hesitate to withdraw everything and bail myself out of my mess. I know that's not the general consensus here and I totally get it, but the way I see it, that's my money and if I need it now, then I need it now.

I really don't want to do that because I don't want to be a destitute senior citizen but if the nursing home is going to get everything anyway it may one day have made sense to cash out and solve today's problems.

 

[CK2015]

I've got a govt 457 and on our plan, we can withdraw funds anytime without penalty as long as we're already separated from service. I think I saw the OP mentioning working for a county hospital somewhere so it might be the same for her. Granted, losing liquid assets as she's planning to do scares me. And yep, I agree about keeping the ERISA protected assets intact.

That's how it was sold to me and what the Financial Planners suggested that I contribute to since even had I stayed the full 30 years, I was still going to only be 51, so 457 money was supposed to be the best option for me over the 403b, which is what I was initially contributing to.

 

[Meadbh]

I have read through this entire thread as well as the other one started by the OP, and frankly, I am beginning to think this story is made up. On the one hand, the OP claims to have been an ICU nurse for decades. I know a lot of ICU nurses, and they are usually very competent, shrewd people. She drops numerous hints at expertise in real estate, claiming to have been a realtor on the side. Yet the main theme is a complete lack of understanding of personal financial management coupled with a severe victim mentality and a dogged determination to shoot down any and all helpful suggestions aimed at avoiding inevitable foreclosures and bankruptcy. It just doesn't add up.

Call me cynical, but I just don't buy this train wreck tale. I'm calling the OP's bluff.

 

[hnzw_rui]

On the one hand, the OP claims to have been an ICU nurse for decades. I know a lot of ICU nurses, and they are usually very competent, shrewd people.

<snip>

Yet the main theme is a complete lack of understanding of personal financial management.

Just because someone is good at their job doesn't mean they have their financial house in order. I think you can probably find lots of intelligent, well-paid professionals (including doctors and nurses) living paycheck to paycheck despite having sizable incomes.

That said, it does seems like the suggestions from forum members have all pretty much been exhausted with none being acceptable to the OP.

 

[travelover]

The game is called "Yeah, butt". Are we having fun?

 

[splitwdw]

............It's her medicare paid social club where she hangs out at the gym, takes computer classes, learns knitting, eats lunch and gets her toe nails done. Why would she give that up? They even have birthday parties and all sorts of other parties for their members. But you are right she could very well live to be 100 with that kind of health care. LOL

Medicare pays for a social club? I'm not near Medicare age but did not know there were things like this paid for by Medicare.

 

[Calico]

......Of course I'm looking for magic. Isn't that what you guys and gals do here?

Absolutely not. You are living in a fantasy land.

Based on your replies in this thread, and the other thread you started, your "plan" is to "hope" and "wish" that everything works out in the end, if you just keep adding to your real estate portfolio and working on ebay.

No matter how many thoughtful and constructive responses and suggestions you receive, you shoot every one of them down. You are not looking for an actual solution. You are looking for people to validate your choices so far, which as far as I can tell have gone like this: it's my money, and if I need it now I need it now, and to heck with the future. I'm just a victim of my stubborn mother and my culture, and there's nothing I can do about it. Woe is me. I'll just buy more real estate and hope for the best and if it doesn't work out I'll survive on reverse mortgages (which you flat-out stated in your other thread.)

According to you:
You "can't" live with your mother to save money.
You "can't" continue working as a nurse, not even working from home as a consultant, because of your health issues.
You "can't" do any other kind of job, because of your health issues.
You "can't" sell any of the properties you own, or downsize.
You "can't" stop giving your mother money every month.

The fact is "can't" can be replaced with the word "won't" in every instance.

You blame your mother.
You blame your cultural traditions.
You blame your sibling who won't contribute.
You blame your health issues, and the meds you take, for not being able to work more.

Interestingly enough, according to one of your posts, you were well enough to attend many trade shows this year.

I don't know of anyone on this board, or in real life, who reached financial independence by following the "Hoping-and-Wishing-for-a-Miracle" plan. You can continue on the path you have chosen (and you have chosen it, you are not a victim) and eventually math will catch up to you.

 

[REWahoo]

That's some tough love right there...