Retiring to balmy Belarus

[Runner]

I'm surely the only American ever to participate here who is planning to retire to the former Soviet republic of Belarus when I retire at 62 in 20 months. After losing my wife of 33 years to breast cancer, I met a woman in Minsk (by e-mail) through a weird series of family/friend connections. After having been warned by the American dolt who is married to her sister about the horrors of the KGB, the current dictatorship, and the general hellhole that he thinks the country is, I visited Belarus three times and absolutely loved it. The people and values seemed to me like the America I used to know. My wife's family could literally audition for the remake of Leave It to Beaver if they could speak English. And Minsk, a city of 2 million, is so clean that it seems impossible -- I am constantly apologizing to my wife for the condition of America, her principal observations being that America is unbelievably dirty and the people are unbelievably fat. The President of Belarus may not be Mr. Warmth and Political Correctness, but with all the atrocities going on around the world, it's hysterical to me that Belarus is one of the few countries on the U.S. hit list that prevents Social Security from sending your checks unless you go personally to the embassy in Minsk and pick them up each month. However, since my wife (a supervisor of social workers for 20 years) and her daughter (a government attorney) lived on a COMBINED income of less than $650/month, I don't foresee our finances as a major problem. My wife can't quite believe I actually want to do this and is mostly concerned that I'll hate the weather, but I'm pretty excited. There is a possibility of RV-ing around the U.S. for a year so she can see some of the national parks, but then we're definitely off to Belarus. Actually, we're off to Belarus in October, so I can investigate some practical aspects that I didn't previously. I don't mean to offend any gung-ho patriots, but I've lived in Arizona 62 years and am ready, as the Monty Python crew would say, for Something Completely Different.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I think it sounds great to me--we loved Mongolia (home of the coldest capital city in the world) when we went a few years ago and I could see spending more time there when we retire. Not everyone wants to retire to the tropics, think goodness, as if they did, those islands would start sinking!

I would say that the RV trip is a great idea--your wife needs to see more of our wonderful country than just the fat people.

 

[Texas Proud]

Hey Runner....

How long have you been married to you lovely lady?

And my major question... do you speak the language

Do you already have a place there? One of the things that surprise me is the cost of living over there... You would think it would be cheaper with the low wages, but I was surprised to see that Moscow was the most expensive place to transfer an expat a number of years ago... I thought it would have been London or NY... don't know who is #1 now...

 

[Leonidas]

Well, to each his own and maybe you're on to something. Good luck.

For me, if I wanted to leave the US and live elsewhere, I'm not sure that Belarus would be on my radar at all.

 

[Runner]

Hey Runner....

How long have you been married to you lovely lady?

And my major question... do you speak the language

Do you already have a place there? One of the things that surprise me is the cost of living over there... You would think it would be cheaper with the low wages, but I was surprised to see that Moscow was the most expensive place to transfer an expat a number of years ago... I thought it would have been London or NY... don't know who is #1 now...

Married two years -- we are absolutely soulmates, to the degree that we literally sit around asking "How is this POSSIBLE" She speaks a fairly good chunk of English (not enough to hold a job anywhere) and I speak the Russian I've learned over the past three years. It's a difficult language, but part of my plan is to really immerse myself in the language for six months before we go over.

Moscow and Russia in general are in an entirely different league -- night and day. I don't speak from experience, but EVERYONE tells me that Moscow and all the major Russian cities are fantastically expensive. If something went haywire in Belarus, my bail-out plan would be Poland (western Belarus having been part of Poland for most of its history anyway).

We actually do have a place there. My wife's daughter is still there, in the tiny "apartment" (condo we would call it) they shared for 20 years. "Tiny" has to be seen to be believed -- I barely weigh 150, and I literally had to hold my arms at my sides and move very carefully to TURN AROUND in their bathroom. But anyway, my wife owns another similarly tiny apartment that is rented out. But what attracts me is the vacant family home in a village of 190 people. It has no indoor plumbing (outhouse, well, etc.) or heating apart from a wood-burning stove, but my wife and her many brothers and sisters were all raised there and I'd love to spend some time refurbishing it -- and her older brother, a successful contractor who is sort of the Godfather of the family, seems open to the idea.

 

[BigNick]

Moscow and Russia in general are in an entirely different league -- night and day. I don't speak from experience, but EVERYONE tells me that Moscow and all the major Russian cities are fantastically expensive. If something went haywire in Belarus, my bail-out plan would be Poland (western Belarus having been part of Poland for most of its history anyway).

My daughter is currently on a one-month study programme in Petrozavodsk, Russia, population 250,000. She reports that by Western standards, everything is cheap (Coke in a bar: 60c US, 15-minute bus ride: 30c US).

Good luck to you in Belarus. Part of me would be unhappy at living in a dictatorship, although how much less so it is than Russia is open to question. Part of me would be more interested in quality of life, which you seem to have found.

 

[mh]

i may be stating the obvious, but i wouldn't hold any large amount of money
in belarus proper or buy any significant real estate until i had been there for years
and could make a more informed decisions on issues like that.

there are a few people from belarus here where i work and , from what i gather, they
have no interest in going back. that's gives me a bit of pause..

 

[ERD50]

there are a few people from belarus here where i work and , from what i gather, they
have no interest in going back. that's gives me a bit of pause..

But maybe the difference is they are in the accumulating phase, and Runner would be in the capital preservation phase?

I really have no advice (other than keep your options open if things don't go as planned), but it seems like Runner has thought this out, and it sounds fascinating to me. Please keep us informed on how it goes.

-ERD50

 

[Westernskies]

Hey, it's your life- if moving to Belarus is what you want to do, then do it. Sounds like you have thought this out and have empirical data to support your decision. All the best to you and your new wife in your new life together in Belarus, and glad to see you found happiness the second time around. Not everyone gets a second chance; enjoy the ride.
WS

 

[LARS]

my bail-out plan would be Poland (western Belarus having been part of Poland for most of its history anyway).

Can't speak to Belarus, but I have an American friend who married a woman from Poland and lives there now. He's dual citizenship (American and British) and decided to live in Poland over the US and the UK.

So you may be on to something...

 

[clifp]

Don't we have a ER person in Estonia or Latvia or someplace like that. I was in Kiev, St. Petersburg, and Moscow for a month in Oct and Nov back in 1991. I must say I prefer Hawaii's weather... Although, Chernobyl has some hot spots I hear.

 

[haha]

Don't we have a ER person in Estonia or Latvia or someplace like that. I was in Kiev, St. Petersburg, and Moscow for a month in Oct and Nov back in 1991. I must say I prefer Hawaii's weather... Although, Chernobyl has some hot spots I hear.

Trek lives or did live in Tallinn, with his Estonian wife. He seems to be very happy there.

Ha

 

[donheff]

Good luck. Living among people who like having you there and learning the language could make all the difference in the world.

 

[Purron]

The President of Belarus may not be Mr. Warmth and Political Correctness, but with all the atrocities going on around the world, it's hysterical to me that Belarus is one of the few countries on the U.S. hit list that prevents Social Security from sending your checks unless you go personally to the embassy in Minsk and pick them up each month. However, since my wife (a supervisor of social workers for 20 years) and her daughter (a government attorney) lived on a COMBINED income of less than $650/month, I don't foresee our finances as a major problem.

Are you going to give up your social security benefits? You worked hard to earn the benefit and it would be a shame to let it go. Seems like there should be a way around this. If nothing else, I'd have the checks deposited in a bank somewhere - either the US or a nearby country such as Poland.

It sounds like you found a good life and I wish you all the best. Just because you're doing something few others would doesn't mean it's not right for you.

Even so, I think it would be wise to consider an exit strategy just in case things don't turn out as envisioned. After a couple of years, you should know if this is where you want to spend your life.

 

[Trek]

Trek lives or did live in Tallinn, with his Estonian wife. He seems to be very happy there.

Ha

Yup, I'm still here in Tallinn and very happy indeed. No plans to ever move anywhere else (well, maybe the suburbs).

Estonia and Belarus are two totally different ballgames though. Estonia is a free, democratic, fiscally responsible European Union / NATO member with low crime, low corruption and a much higher standard of living than the CIS countries. We're even switching our currency to the Euro on January 1st, for better or worse.

Nothing against Belarus, just saying you can't really compare the Eastern European / CIS countries as they're all remarkably different. Some people who don't know better like to lump anything "formerly Soviet" together like they're all the same somehow.

In any case, closest I've been to Belarus is Bialystok, Poland driving to Germany and back. I'd certainly rather live in Belarus than Russia from what I know of the two countries. I have no doubt the OP can make a nice life for himself there as he has money as well as good connections (via the wife and family) in the country, the latter being even more important.

I'd certainly be interested in hearing more about daily life in Belarus and how the OP gets on with living there. I'm totally interested in folks that take the road less traveled so to speak.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[kramer]

As a US citizen, you don't lose your social security check no matter where you live. The safest would be to just have it deposited electronically in a USA bank account that you can access. Maintain more than one bank account in case something happens to one of them.

I would suggest maintaining a USA forwarding address and (virtual) USA phone number for your financial institutions and other sorts of mail. This is what I do.

Kramer

 

[Major Tom]

Runner - what is the healthcare situation like over there? Will you have access to decent healthcare?

Like Trek, I am always interested in people taking the road less traveled - especially if it's cheaper!

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Yo, Runner,

It looks good to me.

But, like Major Tom, the only thing I would be concerned about is health care. I hope it has improved since the former soviet union.

Cheers,

Gypsy

 

[stoutboy]

best of luck to you, but maybe you should go spend the winter there before you make up your mind.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Yup, I'm still here in Tallinn and very happy indeed. No plans to ever move anywhere else (well, maybe the suburbs).

Anytime I hear about Estonia in the news I think of you and your family. So glad you are doing well! And all the news I hear is positive stuff about your economy and the great job your government is doing. Nice stuff!

 

[Runner]

Oops, just noticed that this thread has been more active than I realized. You don't give up Social Security if you're in a "prohibited" country. It just accumulates. The difficulty with having it deposited in the U.S. and accessing it electronically is that you can't access it electronically from any bank in Belarus that I'm aware of. However, I can have it sent via regular mail to the U.S. Embassy in Minsk and go pick it up every month. When my wife was there and I was here, getting her money was a real problem -- Western Union was the only reliable way, albeit with their somewhat high rates. I'll need to be creative to access both my Social Security and my State of Arizona pension.

As for health care, well ... I always say that my running shoes are my primary health insurance. Free health care in Belarus is primitive -- my wife had several root canals and a endoscopy with no anethesia whatsoever, and she was put on the bus home about an hour after a hysterectomy. I visted her sister in a hospital, where she was warehoused in a room with five other patients. But it's free. And there are much pleasanter private clinics at what we in the U.S. would consider very reasonable prices.

About the Belarusians in the U.S. who would never return to Belarus: Yes, we know several of those. That's pretty much going to be the mindset of those who are here, or you wouldn't find them here in the first place. They are very much into the whole capitalist thing. I had an interesting discussion with a woman from the State Department on my first visit to Minsk -- she found it depressing how quickly and completely some countries like Ukraine have bought into the "worst of capitalism" (her words) and was happy that Belarus was moving slowly and retaining some of its traditional values. My wife has plenty of horror stories from the Soviet era, but she says things are much better now (at least in terms of goods and services).

Anyway, I don't think I have any illusions about Belarus being the undiscovered Hawaii. I'm more motivated by family concerns and, frankly, the desire for Something Completely Different.

 

[wanaberetiree]

I immigrated from Ukraine 20 some years ago and Belarus and Ukraine are different countries and can't be compared (although there are probably some similarities). But I have no plans to ER/R in any of them (should I add if FIRECalc does not go crazy on my plans!?)

 

[jimukr104]

all you have to do is get direct deposit into yuor usa accout and use atm card overseas. not really difficult.even banks will directly take out of account if you give them atm card but fees more.as for keping virtual number ,ggod aidea if free,some are. but i wouldnt waste lots of money t otake care of "papers" like other poster said.if yuo on high expat salry yes but based on lower income you plan on living on not worth it. lots of money= lots of paperwork. have all your statements go green so no mail needed.problem you may run into is its usually illegal to get credit cards ,atm cards sent in mail in these countries. i lived in ukraine. but if you go to a bank with personal bank(norm today) yuo can make requests for them sen dhl or meest hich bypaasses all problems.open account in first republic bank if yiou can get to one. they rebate all atm fees overseas so you will never be hit with atm fees and maybe still even pay the visa fee conversion fee for you. this bank you get personal banker so yuo il lhave someone who handles your needs personally.as for health insurance medicaid will not be available,so maybe you have enough funds to join subscription healt care. they have it in ukraine. basically chain of clinics that more modern,western that will take care of you. i say this because one of the reasons i m avoiding retiring to ukraine(other than boredom) is health care and i know for fact ukraine has much better healthcare options then both belarus or russia. fact is ukraine is more advanced country and because of wester partnerships many dr.s have western training as oppose to belaurs that pises off europe and not as much technical trading going on.as for weather when i lived in kiev weather for almost exactly like nyc except a little more snow(not as much as upstate though) and winter is like atleast one month longer. odessa actually same as nyc. i would think minsk would be like rochester temperatures but not as much snow.funny thing is evetyplace toasty as whell in winter so not a problem . i found summer t obe better than usea because not as humid as new york and night time temps not as hot.

 

[chinaco]

....it's hysterical to me that Belarus is one of the few countries on the U.S. hit list that prevents Social Security from sending your checks unless you go personally to the embassy in Minsk and pick them up each month. ...

The reason is fraud! Eastern Europe is a place where a fair amount of fraud criminal activity originates against the US (often organized crime rings)... electronically and sometimes otherwise.

Much stolen identity info is suspected to be in the hands of sophisticated rings of criminals. There is often little real help or willingness of local authorities to assist with these sort of problems.... at best, they are unsympathetic, at worst... paid off.

 

[BelarusBound]

Interesting, I thought I was the only one thinking of doing this. I won't be retiring for at least 15 years, but I'm very familiar with Belarus. I lived there in the 90's and got married there. We've lived in the US since then, but return every year or so, to see family. I figured that it's only fair since she moved here with me, I can move back there when we retire. We'll both only be in our early 50s then, and are looking forward to it.

It is a beautiful country, and the people are nice. It has changed so much since I first went there in 1996. You're correct in the politics of the country are different, but it depends on how you look at what happens. Belarus never experience all the troubles that Russia went through in the 90s, but on the other hand, you don't have a lot of room to disagree with the administration in Belarus, I suppose it all affects you by how close you are to the system. As for me, when i retire, all I want to do is find a house by a big lake, cook shashlik, and get a part time job working for a hunting or shooting club.

We are always looking for towns to live in, usually in between my looking for castles and churches, and trying local beers. I do hope that the pace of life will be the same there when I retire, and I can enjoy it.

Yes the winters can be long and cold, but I'm sure I can find some kid to shovel the walk for me. Plus, it's only a two hour direct flight to either Turkey or Cyprus from Minsk airport, so relief is close by.

Good luck with your plan, I hope it works out for you in Belarus.