Starting to feel the midlife crisis kick in @ 36

[ivotedtoo]

Hey all,

I've been reading these forums enough that I thought I would introduce myself and perhaps memorialize the beginning of serious consideration for early retirement.

I am 36 and work in a fulfilling, but very high stress profession. I've been working my way up the ladder since I was 22 and am proud of where I am, but in the last year I have really started to feel a fair amount of burnout. The addition of a new immediate supervisor who displays some pretty classic soul-sucking narcissistic personality disorder traits has me reconsidering my plans and priorities for the future.

I have an aunt and uncle who pulled the plug and retired early in their 40's after an inheritance and they are the most blissed-out, stress-free people I know. Their lifestyle is what I crave.

I think my DW and I can get there, it's just a matter of how long it's going to take. I don’t think retiring in our 40’s is feasible, but the numbers start looking good once we are in our 50’s. The biggest mistake we have made is not funding tax advantaged accounts enough since we both have significant employer provided defined benefit pensions coming.

Here are our stats:

• Married 36, 38yo respectively. We are trying for a baby, so perhaps one addition to the family.
• Combined salary around $180K. We are nearing the top of our earning potential, but its very possible that we could be earning 10-15% more in a couple years.
• Mortgage: Owe approx. $120,000 @ 2.5% interest which is scheduled to be paid off in 13 years at age 49.
• Student Loans: DW got her Master’s a few years ago and owes approx. $36,000 @3.5% interest. Her payment is $250/month, so we are still 15 years out paying the minimum.
• No other debt.
• My pension: $120,000 (Non-COLA’d) at age 55, but I will have actually earned the maximum number of pension credits around age 52. At that point, the only variables will be final salary and what age benefits start (reduced by about 3.5% each year under age 60).
• DW’s pension: $30,000 (COLA’d - govt) at age 60.
• $50,000 in 401(k), 457 & Roth IRAs. We have stepped up our contributions and are on track for $25,000 this year and aiming for at least $30,000 in future years.
• $85,000 in a low interest MMA for emergency fund and home improvement projects (considering reducing this a bit to help increase money going into our tax advantage accounts).

FireCalc and some of the other calculators indicate we are in good shape pulling the plug when I hit 55 with spending of upwards $120,000/year, but I would like to get out a little earlier if possible since we will be mortgage free before I turn 50 and I hit a pension wall at age 52.

​

We are dreaming of lots of travel and perhaps a move or 2nd home somewhere warm, so at least at first I think we are going to need some wiggle room for higher withdrawals, but I don’t see us keeping up that pace for the long term.

​

Anyway, it’s been quite helpful just typing this out, but I am certainly open to critiques, reality checks and other comments as we are really just starting to try and move everything in this direction. I look forward to being a more active participant as we keep moving forward.​

 

[Maenad]

OK, I'll say it first...

What are your expenses? Is that $120K enough for you to actually live on? Could you live on much less and therefore retire much earlier? Spend a year tracking your expenses and then start on reducing them - sometimes reducing your outgo can do a lot!

 

[ivotedtoo]

OK, I'll say it first...

What are your expenses? Is that $120K enough for you to actually live on? Could you live on much less and therefore retire much earlier? Spend a year tracking your expenses and then start on reducing them - sometimes reducing your outgo can do a lot!

Thanks Maenad. I suppose I should have more directly addressed spending, huh?. We are in the beginning stages of mapping out our spending now and trying to extrapolate that for down the road. We are a couple months into regular Quicken use and I am trying to fill in some blanks, but am not quite comfortable to throw out black and white numbers yet as I'm not sure we've got enough data to work with.

Based on what data I do have and what we spend today, minus mortgage, student loans and other expenses we don't anticipate being long term, I think we would be fine with $120K/yr as much of our other spending is discretionary (i.e. there is a cushion there - just still trying to figure how much of a cushion).

 

[MichaelB]

Welcome to the forum, ivotedtoo. Here are some questions you may find useful http://www.early-retirement.org/for...re-asking-can-i-retire-69999.html#post1399715

In addition, any thought of future lifestyle and spending must first consider this; the impact and difference is considerable.

We are trying for a baby, so perhaps one addition to the family.

 

[MBAustin]

One thing is almost certain - the fact that you are seriously looking at ER now rather than when you are 50 means you will get there sooner than most.

If your job is that stressful, assessing how much of it is due to new bad boss is important. With your DB pension, you are probably at a large enough firm that looking for a new position within the firm is realistic (nothing wrong with a lateral move, or even a step down - sometimes you can take a step down in responsibility and still keep your salary if not your title). It's a good way to recharge your batteries and possibly to pick up some new skills for the future. Just a thought.

Good luck!

 

[Sparkie67]

On face value, your decision seems simple. Do you want to live the blissful stress free life of your Aunt and Uncle in your 40's, or do you want to continue to chase the consumer driven life that 'needs' $120k pa to get by.

To me, your future is determined by your spending.

 

[LastOfTheBoomers]

Since you have a FIRE role model in the family - you should probably have a chat with them - it is one thing to get a big inheritance - but another to invest it and generate lifetime income

 

[ivotedtoo]

One thing is almost certain - the fact that you are seriously looking at ER now rather than when you are 50 means you will get there sooner than most.

If your job is that stressful, assessing how much of it is due to new bad boss is important. With your DB pension, you are probably at a large enough firm that looking for a new position within the firm is realistic (nothing wrong with a lateral move, or even a step down - sometimes you can take a step down in responsibility and still keep your salary if not your title). It's a good way to recharge your batteries and possibly to pick up some new skills for the future. Just a thought.

Good luck!

I am in a high stress environment regardless of coworkers, but the additional stressors of the new boss has been significant enough for me to pause to consider my alternatives. Were I not so invested in the company DB plan, I would probably look for employment elsewhere, but since that is not an option, I think a lateral move may be the way to go. I am in a kind of specialized field, but there are a few possibilities to explore internally.

 

[ivotedtoo]

On face value, your decision seems simple. Do you want to live the blissful stress free life of your Aunt and Uncle in your 40's, or do you want to continue to chase the consumer driven life that 'needs' $120k pa to get by.

To me, your future is determined by your spending.

Hi Sparkie... I think what you are describing is what we are going to be exploring in the next couple years. In my head, I am setting age 55 as a fairly achievable benchmark, but be shooting for earlier if the stars align as far as spending and investing in the next 10 or 15 years.

 

[38Chevy454]

Bad bosses come and bad bosses go during your career. I also agree a lateral move may be good for you. However, the bad boss may also be a current bump in the road and will be gone at some point.

Your nice pension and your wife's smaller future pension make a good income. So the question is once you know spending, how early can you retire and live off savings, until the pension, and then additional future SS income, kick in.

You can get out sooner than 55, if you save up and have some good growth of your savings between now and future until that retirement day.

 

[ivotedtoo]

Here are our stats:

• Married 36, 38yo respectively. We are trying for a baby, so perhaps one addition to the family.
• Combined salary around $180K. We are nearing the top of our earning potential, but its very possible that we could be earning 10-15% more in a couple years.
• Mortgage: Owe approx. $120,000 @ 2.5% interest which is scheduled to be paid off in 13 years at age 49.
• Student Loans: DW got her Master’s a few years ago and owes approx. $36,000 @3.5% interest. Her payment is $250/month, so we are still 15 years out paying the minimum.
• No other debt.
• My pension: $120,000 (Non-COLA’d) at age 55, but I will have actually earned the maximum number of pension credits around age 52. At that point, the only variables will be final salary and what age benefits start (reduced by about 3.5% each year under age 60).
• DW’s pension: $30,000 (COLA’d - govt) at age 60.
• $50,000 in 401(k), 457 & Roth IRAs. We have stepped up our contributions and are on track for $25,000 this year and aiming for at least $30,000 in future years.
• $85,000 in a low interest MMA for emergency fund and home improvement projects (considering reducing this a bit to help increase money going into our tax advantage accounts).

Well, I posted this nearly 10 years ago. I still read/lurk e-r.org quite regularly and have just been chugging along. My numbers 10 years ago were for the most party pretty accurate. I'm happy I wasn't being overly optimistic with our financial situation and retirement prospects.

We did end having a baby a few years ago. That's been the biggest curveball by far. She was born with a rare medical condition which will require lifelong care, so we've been trying to map out how that will look financially and how it will affect our retirement plans including retirement date, desired income and also what retirement will actually look like for us as caregivers of a special needs child and eventually special needs adult.

I was happily wrong about being close to the top of our earning potential. I had a decent promotion maybe 5 years ago and my wife had a significant jump in income switching jobs right before COVID. Annual income now is in the neighborhood of $290K annually in a LCOL area.

We have significantly increased our savings rate with the past several years saving anywhere between 35-60% of our gross income. We're on track to save around $120,000 this year and future years should be fairly similar. I'm happy to report that in less than 10 years our cash and investments grew from $135,000 to over $1,400,000.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that my wife might semi-retire before our actual FIRE date as our daughter's care gets more complicated. That might happen in 2-3 years or so. I don't think my wife wants to completely give up work just yet and her industry has a lot of opportunities for part-time consulting work from home.

My estimated pension numbers from 10 years ago were pretty close, although company has made some changes to the pension rules and I will not be able to start drawing it until I am 57 years old. I am still on track to earn the maximum allowable pension credits around age 52, which will make my continued employment significantly less desirable.

My pension should be around $150K per year not inflation adjusted at age 57. My wife's pension will probably be around $25k per year with an annual COLA increase (her age 60, my age 57) if she decides to quit in the next 2 or 3 years.

I'm still not found a desired spending level I am completely comfortable setting for retirement. Our annual spend has ranged from $65k-$120k over the past 5 years averaging around $90K. There are a lot of variables and big expenses that come with raising a special needs child and still trying to figure out how to forecast out those type of expenses. We also want some extra buffer to leave some assets in a trust for her care after my wife and I pass.

Now, when my daughter turns 18 she will qualify for SSI and Medicaid, so at least a small portion of her financial needs will be covered there.

For now, I'm on basically autopilot until we hit the $2M mark in cash and investments and then will reevaluate our situations. I'm guessing I'm going to keep going until we hit somewhere between $2.5-$3M, but at the $2M point will start planning our exit strategy.

I'll be 46 later this year. I would love to jump ship at age 50, but definitely early 50's seems realistic.

We're not there yet, but I feel like we've made enough progress that I'd like to put it down on paper again. Thanks everyone for reading my update!

 

[Jeffman52]

Great to see an update. Looks like you have been thrown a few curve balls but outside of that very impressive increases in income. I don't know if you are doing it yet but as you get closer to pulling the trigger on FIRE, make sure to have a written FIRE budget that you are living off of. Make sure you can continue to live each month and not go over budget as if you were already retired. If over time you do that and its not a struggle to stay within the budget, then you are certainly ready.

 

[Midpack]

Bad bosses come and bad bosses go during your career.

+1. I had a horrible boss for about 3 years, and I seriously considered making a move, but I liked my job and the prospects ahead. Fortunately I stuck it out, the horrible boss finally got fired (not only was an incompetent narcissist, he was cheating on his wife with another employee), and I ended up with a much better boss, and a career/promotion/salary path that enabled me to reach FI long before I retired. A horrible boss can be excruciating during that time, but your career usually goes 30-50 years, consider the long view.

 

[ivotedtoo]

+1. I had a horrible boss for about 3 years, and I seriously considered making a move, but I liked my job and the prospects ahead. Fortunately I stuck it out, the horrible boss finally got fired (not only was an incompetent narcissist, he was cheating on his wife with another employee), and I ended up with a much better boss, and a career/promotion/salary path that enabled me to reach FI long before I retired. A horrible boss can be excruciating during that time, but your career usually goes 30-50 years, consider the long view.

Thanks for the encouragement! Your experience sounds very similar to mine. Definitely was dealing with some extreme narcissism. He took great pleasure in playing mind games and trying to sabotage everyone underneath him. The good news is that since my original post the boss was finally fired during COVID for his inability to work with his underlings. So for the last year we’ve a pretty good crew of folks who work well together. It will definitely make it easier to cross the financial goals finish line.

 

[ivotedtoo]

Great to see an update. Looks like you have been thrown a few curve balls but outside of that very impressive increases in income. I don't know if you are doing it yet but as you get closer to pulling the trigger on FIRE, make sure to have a written FIRE budget that you are living off of. Make sure you can continue to live each month and not go over budget as if you were already retired. If over time you do that and its not a struggle to stay within the budget, then you are certainly ready.

Thank you. We’re currently tracking expenses, but haven’t strictly budgeted for a little while since our savings rate/goals are where we want them to be. That’s a good idea to trial run a hypothetical retirement budget to assess how realistic our numbers are.

 

[street]

Thanks for the update and I wish you the best of luck in your journey to ER. No matter what life throws at us there is always a blessing and thankfulness to be found.

You are doing a great job financially.

 

[brydanger]

On face value, your decision seems simple. Do you want to live the blissful stress free life of your Aunt and Uncle in your 40's, or do you want to continue to chase the consumer driven life that 'needs' $120k pa to get by.

To me, your future is determined by your spending.

I'll second what Sparkle said... but might take it a step further.
I have a pretty different view than most on here... but I hear something in your post/voice that reminds me of us at a similar age.

Here's the thing... Trying to take slight actions will NOT drastically modify your course. It sounds like you're not pleased with the idea of retiring in your 50s, so why not take drastic action now to prevent it/change it??

At your age we sat at a VERY similar status and felt like there was no way out.
Everyone told us there was no way out.
We knew no person who had done anything other than keep working towards the same goals.

Instead of taking that same well-charted course, we made a pact with ourselves to change at all cost and as fast as possible:
- We changed every expensive habit we had from making out own coffee instead of buying it to packing our own lunches to cancelling weekends snowboarding and weeklong trips at the end of the year.
- All extra money went to paying of our credit card bills
- Then the extra money (now a couple 100/mo more) went 100% to the student loan
- Then the extra (now with an extra digit) went to the car loans, 2nd mortgage etc.
- Rather than making advanced payments on our mortgage trying to pay it off early, we put all that money to debt that couldn't actually help us.
- We eventually moved out of our 5+ bedroom house, and let someone else pay the mortgage off while we lived in a 2br apartment (and the a 1br, then a studio)
- We watched our debt payments turn into savings and then watched (elated) them snowball.
- We finally realized that house was more work than we wanted, pulled out money to buy a second home... now with two rent payments covering our mortgages AND helping to pay our living expenses...

A handful of years heater we quit our jobs and walked away still in our 30s (far earlier than anyone here would have suggested, and the famed calculator would have broken into million pieces if we even suggested our "plan" to it - but those years of focused work and change - did exactly that.
It changed out trajectory - permanently.

Im not in any way saying our path is for everyone... but you also don't sound like someone who's going to be happy settling for the accepted path, so chart your own!

If you want to change the curve of your future, start with changing your tomorrow (and the next day and the next). Imagine how early you could retire if your annual spending was $60k/yr (or $30k) and the rest went to your "Freedom Fund"... plug THAT into the calculator and see if you can live like your aunt and uncle in their 40s!

I assure you - you'll be amazed at how quickly you can reach even the loftiest of goals... but it also requires playing by your own rules, because even on here you're not likely to find many who will tell you that quitting in your 40s is feasible/possible (much less your 30s), which means you have to choose a different path then what you see everyone else on.

You got this!

 

[pacergal]

Great update, looks like you are doing well.
You may consider a consult with an estate lawyer regarding setting up a Special Needs Trust for your daughter, along with making sure your own wills/healthcare proxies/ etc. are up to date.