Well Off 52 Yr old Married with 3 Teenagers seeks Opinions and Wisdom

[MichaelB]

One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.
Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.

Do not get overly defensive on me, but for me there are relevant non financial aspects of retirement.

Welcome to the fourm, Mexpet. No need to push back on that point, I most everyone here will agree that finances are not the goal, just the threshold you must pass in order to retire. If you enjoy your work and feel your time spent there is a good use, then by all means, continue. Most of us here have found that life after work is quite enjoyable and there are indeed very few who wish to leave the retired life and return to work.

 

[Fedup]

If I were a trust fund baby I would be involved in film, either as a film maker or invest in companies making films, like Oracle's daughter.


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[Katiek]

One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.
Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.

Do not get overly defensive on me, but for me there are relevant non financial aspects of retirement.

The FI in FIRE is for financially independent, and as others have noted, for many that is the main goal - not the RE. The FI gives you the ability to make a choice what is right for you. Some people love their job and enjoy the opportunity to be exposed to the people they meet and work and/or do something they think is important (or just enjoyable). But many people find the stress of their work is detrimental to their life, or the often "round the clock" hours takes a toll on their health or family life.

Clearly you have the ability to make a choice that works for you and your family. if you enjoy your life as is, then continue to enjoy it and know that you have the freedom to walk away from work when you want to. However, I don't think that quitting would set a bad example. Kids learn what they see, and in such instance, your kids would see the benefits of setting a goal and achieving it. Plus they'll see the freedom that can come from living below your means and the ability to contribute to the world in ways other than simply by a paid job.

 

[kaudrey]

Hi Mexpet,


I agree with KatieK that many of us are first and foremost focused on the FI, and then the RE. And we do focus on the non-monetary - head over to the Travel forum or the "Other Topics" forum and see we talk about all kinds of things.


But, of course, the monetary aspect is a large part of it, because most of us haven't been able to amass $11M.


The FI gives you freedom - freedom to not work, or freedom to work if you want at whatever you want. If I had been born rich, maybe I would have had a different career or taken some more risks - I have a nice, safe, gov't job that I enjoy, but ask me if I would have loved to become a travel photographer or an adventure tour guide 20 years ago.....if I didn't feel the need to have a steady job to pay the bills.

 

[dvalley]

FWIW - I am younger than you with younger children at home. I was working in an extremely intense, high-stress field making lots of money. I enjoyed the work but it was taking its toll on me.

My assets had grown very nicely and I started to realize I didn't NEED to work anymore. That itself was very liberating. However, I still enjoyed my line of work and was hesitant to walk away completely as there is no going back. So, I decided to go PT.

My life has changed dramatically since I made that decision. Yes I now make substantially less, but my family and friends have seen the change in me. I now have the time and patience I did not have previously. My relationships with my wife and kids have become much stronger. . .that is priceless.

I just wanted to comment on this because this is exactly how I'm feeling in my extremely stressful but well paying IT job. However, I'm not FI yet but really wish I was so I could do the same thing. Finding PT work in IT will be difficult but I'm fine with another career job etc as long as it's decent - hopefully a few more years (non 2015/2016 like though).

And to the OP - with your wealth please retire...vacate the position for someone else and enjoy your time with the family as much as you can. Also with your hobbies etc I don't know how you're spending $150k per year. May be overestimating the needs unless you plan to do some very specific things during retirement.

 

[TallTim]

... One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so ...

IMO it appears that way on this forum b/c that's the ticket to entry. IOW, one cannot simply 'do whatever you want' under normal circumstances without a substantial financial safety net; it's not that people don't do that, but most like that don't post here -- that would be a more Mr Money Moustache approach for example.

ER.org adherents tend to be a fiscally conservative LBYM lot, and they practiced what they preach .. and now proselytize that to others; so the point of view is skewed that way (e.g., make sure you have the $ first, etc.) and it's worth keeping that inherent bias in mind.

If you remove that constraint, then people here (and I suspect elsewhere on these sorts of fora) will tell you that they would have done work that was psychically remunerative even if it was not financially so.

To your question, and in my experience, the non-financial aspect of RE is harder than the numbers for many reasons, the least of which is societal and potentially familial or filial expectations.

FWIW, there are plenty of worthy and absorbing things to do that don't pay well - or indeed at all- out there. That kind of work and the freedom to set your own schedule - working for 3-4 months at a consulting type of project or similar and then taking off for 6 months to see some part of the world that interests you ,etc - are often stepping stone outlets for people who have the FI part done but are unsure or uncertain of the RE side of things.

I do not know, nor have I ever met, anyone who is retired or partially retired, who regrets leaving their traditional employment - even among people who had fulfilling and in many cases impactful careers.

 

[eta2020]

We are Europeans, so no world wide taxes for us, and I could see myself retiring in Costa Rica ( no income taxes on income earned outsideCosta Rica), or in Mexico ( we know and like Puerto Vallarta and San Miguel de Allende, as we have been living in Mexico for the last 4 years), any experiences on moving to a warm climate, not to lower cost of living, but to increase quality of life? I would love to hear about great retirement destinations.

How about Guanajuato?

 

[emerytura]

It might be good idea to continue working for the next 4 years until kids start college. It will be much easier to decide on retirement location once kids are out of the house. Than retire only when you are mentally/emotionally ready. Since money is no object consider having two places. My pick will be Germany to enjoy Alps, and place in Naples, Florida to enjoy beach.


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[pb4uski]

I dunno.... the bad example you will be setting for your kids is that if you work hard, make sacrifices, live below your means, save a lot and invest well that you can retire in your early 50s and enjoy life...... I think you could do a lot worse than that!

 

[Mexpet]

Happiness vs Retirement or Financial Independence

Let me try to summarize, what I learned.

Retiring early with kids still at home is probably not a bad example, if managed responsibly. Check!!!


However, we are looking for different things:
You want Early Retirement and Financial Independence whereas i seek more happiness - very different things!

Financial Independence - I believe (after having reflected on it) I have always been financially independent, even when I did not have any money. I always spent less money than I had, or I always made more money than I needed.it just never was a big motivator.

So, FI is obviously not what I am after. If i wanted to be a photographer, I would have become one, by the way. If I wanted to be a beach bump, I would have become one.
I think I am trying to maximize happiness, not retire early. And yes, may be this is the wrong forum. For me early-retirement.orgwas not synonymous money.

 

[emerytura]

What is Happines?
http://www.happify.com/hd/what-is-happiness-anyway/


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[RE2Boys]

The FI is a means to an end, it brings freedom to make choices without the pressure of a career or job (depending on how you look at what you do for compensation). Admittendy, this forum leans toward the FI part of the equation as the "happy ending" is extremely individualistic.


I accepted an early retirement offer at age 50 with 1 and 3 year old sons. Was floundering with the decision when it occurred to me that I could be a regular part of their daily lives much more so than if I continued my career. Absolutely the happiest period of my 66 years.


Have I ever stopped working? Not really. Between volunteer activities (Treasurer of a swimming pool club, treasurer of Cub and Boy Scouts, treasurer of a soccer club, soccer coach, etc) and 15 years as part-time at a CPA firm, the boys have always seen me being involved.......going to meetings or going to work. None of the above activities, even the ones that pay, are done for the money but for my desires (and generally pay about a fourth of what I received as an engineer). But they are all on MY terms.

 

[TallTim]

@Mexpet ... it seems you're already FI and can't tell whether RE will make you 'happier' or not. This is a very fair observation, but candidly probably beyond the assessment of this community, as pointed out indirectly by a number of posts to this thread.

You say you've always been FI and indeed based on the numbers at the OP, you are by any measure. You also note that it's not about career choices, since you could have done anything you wanted and made a decent living at it ...

Ok, fair enough. But if all that's true, then all you're left to do (really) is look hard in the mirror and talk w your SO about what you want out of life, IMO. You clearly have the assets to do that and take your time doing so. It may be that you are happiest doing exactly what you are (and have been doing) for many years, but that may also not be the case.

What I see inherent in many posts here is the idea that you can chose to continue on the path you're on, but at FI, one should be making a conscious, volitional choice in that regard.

Best of luck to you.

 

[eta2020]

One more pushback on this board: There seems to be too much focus on the monetary, financial aspect. The conventional wisdom here seems to be to retire as soon as you can financially do so.
Let me take that to the extreme: If you are born rich, as per the logic on this board, you should never work, but just move directly from kindergarden to retirement. I am sure that is not what you are trying to say.

Maybe for some... I am FI and I work and pretty much enjoy it.

I can also tell you that I feel much more relaxed as FI then before, since I do not need to give a F$%^. It actually makes my work even more enjoyable

 

[FreeBear]

Mexpet,

Congratulations on your savings and lifetime of accomplishments. I don't have much to add regarding warm retirement destinations. I do think it's good you are considering how your lifestyle impacts the character of your children and how this will impact their ability to lead independent, productive, and fulfilling lives.

Like other posters, I believe that spending more time with you kids can have a positive impact in general. Since it's probably obvious to them that you have the financial aspects well under control, increasing quality family time (retirement, part-time w*rk, less demanding job etc.) can underscore the importance of family relationship as a priority once basic financial survival needs have been met.

Have you read "The Milionaire Next Door" (TMND)?? A couple of chapters in this book may be of interest because they discuss the challenges of financial successful parents raising independent, productive children that aren't handicapped by co-dependence and entitlement. Chapter 5 "Economic Outpatient Care" and Chapter 6 "Affirmative Action, Family Style" may be of greatest interest. Chapter 6 also discusses "Rules for Affluent Parents & Productive Children". I'm not sure if any of this is even relevant to your situation, but it's a good general discussion of the potential challenges and ideas for addressing them.

FB

 

[Mexpet]

Mexpet,

Have you read "The Milionaire Next Door" (TMND)?? A couple of chapters in this book may be of interest because they discuss the challenges of financial successful parents raising independent, productive children that aren't handicapped by co-dependence and entitlement. Chapter 5 "Economic Outpatient Care" and Chapter 6 "Affirmative Action, Family Style" may be of greatest interest. Chapter 6 also discusses "Rules for Affluent Parents & Productive Children".

Thanks for the book recommendation. I will read it.

What is Happines?
What is Happiness? - Happy Definition - Happify Daily

Good article, I can recommend this one:
The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom
by Jonathan Haidt

Maybe for some... I am FI and I work and pretty much enjoy it.
I can also tell you that I feel much more relaxed as FI then before, since I do not need to give a F$%^. It actually makes my work even more enjoyable

Thats how I feel about it. Also Guanajuato (from your other post) is nice, but too small for me, and not enough to do.

 

[Danmar]

Only you can decide what will maximize your happiness. I was in a very similar position to you at a comparable age. My daughter was older than your kids and lived with her mother so not a real consideration. I wanted the freedom that retirement would provide and was getting tired of working. But the financial considerations were very important to me. I ended up retiring at age 56 after my net worth doubled over the preceding 3 years.

What about working for a few more years(you say you don't mind it) then using your enhanced net worth to set up a family foundation. You kids can help you give money away to worthy causes. That might be fun and would provide an excellent example to you kids.

On the other hand are you sure you will never have a use for more income? If you want a home in Europe it can be very expensive in desireable locations, Lake Como, south of France? I was quite happy in the end that I ended up with such a large nestegg. You may be very different.

 

[Persn]

I rarely post but here goes:

At 14, 16 and 19 your kids are well on their way to adulthood. The example you set has already been imprinted and IMO is unlikely to change because you change your employment status. In other words they already know they have to work hard and it sounds like they already do!

My dad died suddenly at 54; I was 16. I was the youngest and the last at home with my very sad mom. After a few rough years we all adjusted, and after about seven years my mom met a widower and got to enjoy a long and active retirement in her second marriage. My siblings and I all have had reasonably successful careers (thanks in large part to that early parental influence). But my poor dad missed all of it.

My point is this - your retirement is about you. Sometimes the best example you can give your kids is to do what makes you happy - then they see that and learn how to be happy themselves.

I don't know if you are interested in retiring in the U.S. but if so, you might want to consider California. The weather is great and the activities you enjoy are close by and doable year round. No need for a second home. We are on the Central Coast and find the quality of life to be outstanding, plus we are close enough to go to San Francisco for the day or a weekend anytime. Excellent health care, international airports and access to fresh locally grown foods. I could go on, but I won't!

 

[Mexpet]

On the other hand are you sure you will never have a use for more income? If you want a home in Europe it can be very expensive in desireable locations, Lake Como, south of France? I was quite happy in the end that I ended up with such a large nestegg. You may be very different.

Lake Como is beautiful.

I don't know if you are interested in retiring in the U.S. but if so, you might want to consider California. The weather is great and the activities you enjoy are close by and doable year round. No need for a second home. We are on the Central Coast and find the quality of life to be outstanding, plus we are close enough to go to San Francisco for the day or a weekend anytime. Excellent health care, international airports and access to fresh locally grown foods. I could go on, but I won't!

I just googled Central Coast. Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo look like great year round locations. I have never been there though. Although I like the US, I never thought about retiring there, mainly because of the complicated tax situation, but I need to give that a second thought.

 

[kcowan]

We have met all kinds of interesting retirees in Mexico, and the ones that have multiple $10 millions all strive for fulfillment in their retired lives. Some live through their kids and grand-kids, while others are looking for the next challenge that is comparable to what kinds they got in the earning years.

I don't think spending days on the golf course qualifies. It is a pass-time without adequate external rewards. We have only been at it for 13 years and have not found the ideal formula, even though we are happy with our lives. All the causes seem to become all-consuming whether we like it or not. Our kids are independent and so need little discretionary attention.

So I think you have a tough decision on your hands and one size never fits. But good communications among the whole family will avoid assumptions. Also there are few one-way doors when it comes to life's decisions.

 

[Texan1636]

Just a few reactions (some of this is purely financial, which is not your focus at this point, I realize). Just by way of background, I am a similar age and, while my assets are not quite what yours are, they are in the high 7 figures at this point. I work a stressful job; if you search my prior posts you will see from where I'm coming.

- I know that you are financially secure, but I think 85% of financial assets in equities is too high, unless you are really focused on legacy/end of life giving. A huge depression would hit that equity holding very hard, and I don't see your need to take that amount of risk, given what you've said. I would think about dialing-back the equity exposure to something like 60%.

- $1.8 million in stock options is a large enough amount that I think you should consider diversifying out of that "single stock" risk and exercising. I don't know if your employment situation practically restricts you from exercising while you continue as an employee (I have seen situations where there is pressure not to do that), but regardless of how "solid" your Megacorp is, I have seen financial shocks crater stocks of very solid companies (see GE's stock price during the 2008 "great recession" as an example).

- I don't think your pension fund growth at age 55 should come into play in your consideration, given your level of assets. The question for you is whether you otherwise want to work to 55 or not, but I don't see why the pension should tip the scales.

- Given your children's ages, I think you could face geographic limitations based on their high school educational needs. I'm not very familiar with what your options for them may be in, say, Puerto Vallarta v. other places in Mexico, but I would think this would have to be a consideration if you retire before they go to college.

- Your annual "burn rate" is lower than mine, and I don't know what your residential property desires are - if you wanted a REALLY high-end residential experience, there are places in Mexico (such as Punta Mita, outside Puerto Vallarto) where you could have a retirement-type lifestyle with beautiful ocean views and lots of room to hike, kayak, etc. That comes with a steep price-tag, but you can afford if it that is what you wish. I don't know that the school options for your children would be there.

- I think that your concern about the "example" you set may depend very heavily on the personalities of your children. My daughter, who is only a bit older, has seen me work so hard in my stressful career that she just wishes I would dial it back and focus on the charitable and other causes that I value. I don't think retiring when she was a teenager would have affected her in a negative way, but other children might be different.

Good luck to you!

 

[Mexpet]

- I know that you are financially secure, but I think 85% of financial assets in equities is too high, unless you are really focused on legacy/end of life giving. A huge depression would hit that equity holding very hard, and I don't see your need to take that amount of risk, given what you've said. I would think about dialing-back the equity exposure to something like 60%.

- I don't think your pension fund growth at age 55 should come into play in your consideration, given your level of assets. The question for you is whether you otherwise want to work to 55 or not, but I don't see why the pension should tip the scales.

- Given your children's ages, I think you could face geographic limitations based on their high school educational needs. I'm not very familiar with what your options for them may be in, say, Puerto Vallarta v. other places in Mexico, but I would think this would have to be a consideration if you retire before they go to college.

- Your annual "burn rate" is lower than mine, and I don't know what your residential property desires are - if you wanted a REALLY high-end residential experience, there are places in Mexico (such as Punta Mita, outside Puerto Vallarto) where you could have a retirement-type lifestyle with beautiful ocean views and lots of room to hike, kayak, etc. That comes with a steep price-tag, but you can afford if it that is what you wish. I don't know that the school options for your children would be there.

- I think that your concern about the "example" you set may depend very heavily on the personalities of your children. My daughter, who is only a bit older, has seen me work so hard in my stressful career that she just wishes I would dial it back and focus on the charitable and other causes that I value. I don't think retiring when she was a teenager would have affected her in a negative way, but other children might be different.

Good luck to you!

I had missed your other posts but have now read them. Very interesting.

Re My Asset Allocation: You are right, it is very equity heavy. I will rethink my allocation, and possibly move some of that equity into cash for the future purchase of a house.
Aside from that, i feel comfortable with equities, I am mostly in ETFs with some play money in more risky investments. Agree on your comment re my pension increase will not tip the scale.

School Options: Kids are currently at a great school. There would be nothing comparable in Puerto Vallarta or in San Miguel.

So my decision is to keep at it until the youngest one graduates from High School. There really is no big win for me from retiring now. Playing golf every day is not for me.

On differences between your and my burn rate: If I play it right , I might be able to pay very little in taxes. I am also a big believer in keeping our fixed cost low. That means I will Not buy a palatial house, nor expensive cars, and probably also not a second home. I know Punta Mita, and it is nice, but probably not for a permanent stay.
We will, however, like you, spend big time on travel, business class, nice hotels, etc. Our other big expense is and will be - eating out. The nice thing about these expenses are, that you can easily cut them, if something goes wrong.


Again, thanks for taking the time to comment.

 

[kcowan]

Also don't forget the option to dine in with an executive chef. Very popular here in PV.

 

[haha]

I think it takes a lot of nerve to tell a man with several children and $11+ million what to do with his life.

Perhaps should ask him what we should do? Or better yet, just realize that all these "you should blah blah blah's" are mostly for the edification of the poster.

Ha

 

[REWahoo]

You forgot to say "...and get off my lawn!"