veremchuka
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I can't watch any of the coverage it's still to raw. I don't need to be reminded of who and what did this. I won't forget or forgive.
9/11/11
- Thread starter Purron
- Start date
Brett_Cameron
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I remember after the 1993 bombings of the World Trade Center, car bombs, I think, there was a "news" show that had some experts on discussing what it would take to bring down the towers. They discussed the buildings' design criteria of a plane crashing into the towers and discussed that a larger plane would be needed to be full of fuel to bring them down, maybe.
I remembered that when the towers were going down and "knew" that the terrorists watched the same news show years earlier when they were doing their planning.
Fast forward to just after the Japanese earthquake. At w*rk, one of our team's tasks was to investigate earthquake vulnerability of NYC buildings and monuments. It is amazing how much technical information is available on the internet that could be used maliciously.
I remembered that when the towers were going down and "knew" that the terrorists watched the same news show years earlier when they were doing their planning.
Fast forward to just after the Japanese earthquake. At w*rk, one of our team's tasks was to investigate earthquake vulnerability of NYC buildings and monuments. It is amazing how much technical information is available on the internet that could be used maliciously.
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WhoDaresWins
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
There is a good article in today's NYT on Flight 93 (Shanksville) and a recent memorial vigil by United Airlines staffers. The article has a link to a brief biography of each of the 40 members of the crew and passengers which made each one come alive to me and quite overwhelmed me.
I need to get up to Shanksville before the snow flies. It is less than an hour's drive from where I live. I will never forget.
I need to get up to Shanksville before the snow flies. It is less than an hour's drive from where I live. I will never forget.
Midpack
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
No one who experienced 9/11/01 could forget or forgive, but all the coverage is giving me fatigue too, I refuse to watch any more today.
I wonder about the motivation for the memorials too. They've engraved the names of the almost 3000 people who died that day at a memorial at ground zero - and they are spending billions at the site. The losses are very sad, but are those 3000 more important than all the thousands of others who are senselessly murdered each day all over the USA? I'd say every life lost is of equal significance...shouldn't we remember all the others who will never be memorialized? Again, I am not minimizing the losses of 9/11...
I wonder about the motivation for the memorials too. They've engraved the names of the almost 3000 people who died that day at a memorial at ground zero - and they are spending billions at the site. The losses are very sad, but are those 3000 more important than all the thousands of others who are senselessly murdered each day all over the USA? I'd say every life lost is of equal significance...shouldn't we remember all the others who will never be memorialized? Again, I am not minimizing the losses of 9/11...
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rescueme
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
From a very personal prospective, I see any memorial (in my case, "the wall", as a Viet vet) in a very different manner...
Today, I wept - not only those on the current memorial, but for those that grace past memorials
...Regardless of the specific situation, it's an ongoing reminder that we should not forget, and how that moment in time affected us, as Americans.
Lest we forget...
Just my simple POV...
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Lsbcal
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I put our flag out today. It's a small way to show solidarity with our country and it's people (and other creatures large + small). Life is precious.
OP
OP
Purron
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2007
- Messages
- 5,596
Bruce. The Rising. His reaction to 9/11. Love my Jersey dude.
Can't see nothin' in front of me
Can't see nothin' coming up behind
I make my way through this darkness
I can't feel nothing but this chain that binds me
Lost track of how far I've gone
How far I've gone, how high I've climbed
On my back's a sixty pound stone
On my shoulder a half mile of line
Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight
Left the house this morning
Bells ringing filled the air
Wearin' the cross of my calling
On wheels of fire I come rollin' down here
Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight
La,la, la,la,la,la, la,la,la
There's spirits above and behind me
Faces gone black, eyes burnin' bright
May their precious blood bind me
Lord, as I stand before your fiery light
La,la, la,la,la,la, la,la,la
I see you Mary in the garden
In the garden of a thousand sighs
There's holy pictures of our children
Dancin' in a sky filled with light
May I feel your arms around me
May I feel your blood mix with mine
A dream of life comes to me
Like a catfish dancin' on the end of my line
Sky of blackness and sorrow ( a dream of life)
Sky of love, sky of tears (a dream of life)
Sky of glory and sadness ( a dream of life)
Sky of mercy, sky of fear ( a dream of life)
Sky of memory and shadow ( a dream of life)
Your burnin' wind fills my arms tonight
Sky of longing and emptiness (a dream of life)
Sky of fullness, sky of blessed life
Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight
Bruce Springsteen on David letterman The Rising - YouTube
Can't see nothin' in front of me
Can't see nothin' coming up behind
I make my way through this darkness
I can't feel nothing but this chain that binds me
Lost track of how far I've gone
How far I've gone, how high I've climbed
On my back's a sixty pound stone
On my shoulder a half mile of line
Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight
Left the house this morning
Bells ringing filled the air
Wearin' the cross of my calling
On wheels of fire I come rollin' down here
Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight
La,la, la,la,la,la, la,la,la
There's spirits above and behind me
Faces gone black, eyes burnin' bright
May their precious blood bind me
Lord, as I stand before your fiery light
La,la, la,la,la,la, la,la,la
I see you Mary in the garden
In the garden of a thousand sighs
There's holy pictures of our children
Dancin' in a sky filled with light
May I feel your arms around me
May I feel your blood mix with mine
A dream of life comes to me
Like a catfish dancin' on the end of my line
Sky of blackness and sorrow ( a dream of life)
Sky of love, sky of tears (a dream of life)
Sky of glory and sadness ( a dream of life)
Sky of mercy, sky of fear ( a dream of life)
Sky of memory and shadow ( a dream of life)
Your burnin' wind fills my arms tonight
Sky of longing and emptiness (a dream of life)
Sky of fullness, sky of blessed life
Come on up for the rising
Come on up, lay your hands in mine
Come on up for the rising
Come on up for the rising tonight
Bruce Springsteen on David letterman The Rising - YouTube
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
From a very personal prospective, I see any memorial (in my case, "the wall", as a Viet vet) in a very different manner...
Today, I wept - not only those on the current memorial, but for those that grace past memorials
Regardless of the specific situation, it's an ongoing reminder that we should not forget, and how that moment in time affected us, as Americans.
Lest we forget...
Just my simple POV...
+1
I feel the same. People deal with tragedies and grieving in different ways, and those who want to walk away and forget can do that and I understand. But those of us who need a reminder of each who perished can have that, if only in a name on a wall. Let us never forget.
steelyman
Moderator Emeritus
Forgiving is, I think, an individual choice that has to do with how each person wants to view the world and the people in it. Forgetting - well, how can you do that?
Maybe a significant day in 2011 could be 9/12. After ten years of trauma, it makes sense to remember, but moving forward with a renewed sense of hope would be very good.
Maybe a significant day in 2011 could be 9/12. After ten years of trauma, it makes sense to remember, but moving forward with a renewed sense of hope would be very good.
This is the show that is on.
FinanceDude
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2006
- Messages
- 12,483
I know someone whose daughter died on 9/11. The grief for him is never-ending. He has been to New York City 50 times since 9/11 looking for healing...........
Texas Proud
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- May 16, 2005
- Messages
- 17,264
It will fade with time.... but major anniversaries will have this big presentation... probably a less at the 20 year one...
How much is on TV about the attackes on Dec 7th Not a lot... but to me that was an even worse day for the country...
I think the people who lost somebody will always want these memorials, and they should have them.
I just think we should also remember the thousands of kids who have given their lives in the two wars. To me, these are the heros as they are the ones who knowingly went into harms way and gave their lives for all of us....
How much is on TV about the attackes on Dec 7th
Not a lot... but to me that was an even worse day for the country...I think the people who lost somebody will always want these memorials, and they should have them.
I just think we should also remember the thousands of kids who have given their lives in the two wars. To me, these are the heros as they are the ones who knowingly went into harms way and gave their lives for all of us....
calmloki
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Since then about twice that many US service-people have died in Iraq and Afghanistan as died on 9-11.
About ten times that many US service people have been wounded.
Multiply the number of 9-11 deaths by well over 100 to get the number of Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians who have died violently in the wars since then.
We were attacked by Al Quaida. Our response was to attack Saddam Hussein's regime. Not Al Quaida. I fear our nation has gone down a bloody path and put a blight upon our national soul.
The loss of Americans, Iraqis, Afghans, and all others both military and, to an immensely disproportionate degree, civilian, is a waste. The pain is without border.
We are better. People are better.
About ten times that many US service people have been wounded.
Multiply the number of 9-11 deaths by well over 100 to get the number of Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians who have died violently in the wars since then.
We were attacked by Al Quaida. Our response was to attack Saddam Hussein's regime. Not Al Quaida. I fear our nation has gone down a bloody path and put a blight upon our national soul.
The loss of Americans, Iraqis, Afghans, and all others both military and, to an immensely disproportionate degree, civilian, is a waste. The pain is without border.
We are better. People are better.
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Lsbcal
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
This thread demonstrates, if we ever needed it, that there is much confusion about life/death, good/evil in our society and the world of people. I suppose that will always be so.
We can generally seem to agree on basic decency within the US, I hope. I personally am always looking for some strong rules that will help me to cope but it's really hard to find them. You only have to look at nature to see senseless destruction -- thermonuclear life/death in stars and whatever might have existed in their neighborhood. One can get into quite a philosophical fit over this stuff.
We can generally seem to agree on basic decency within the US, I hope. I personally am always looking for some strong rules that will help me to cope but it's really hard to find them. You only have to look at nature to see senseless destruction -- thermonuclear life/death in stars and whatever might have existed in their neighborhood. One can get into quite a philosophical fit over this stuff.
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REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
...any thread on this forum can turn political with a single post.
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
...any thread on this forum can turn political with a single post.
Breathtaking, isn't it?
ziggy29
Moderator Emeritus
+1...any thread on this forum can turn political with a single post.
I know this is an emotional issue for a lot of people, not just in the human tragedy aspect but also in terms of the subsequent impacts to public policy. For the sake of those touched by the former, to honor their memories and sacrifices, I'd hope we can stick to the former and not the latter. Thanks.
I may be four days late, but the title of this thread is 9/11/11-- so I'll tell a (non-political) story about what I did four days ago instead of how I felt 10 years ago.
(REWahoo! or one of you Houston Air Force vets, maybe you know more about this "aircraft owner". In retrospect I wish I'd had more time with him.)
While I was in San Antonio for USAA's blogger conference, I did a hit&run road trip to Houston to visit my daughter. (I'll be back next month for a proper E-R.org chapter meeting.) On Sunday she invited me to [-]haul supplies for[/-] watch her NROTC unit's participation in the 9/11 Travis Manion Memorial 5K at Ellington Airfield. I figured it'd be a few midshipmen & cadets jogging around a training building... but it was over 4000 racers and a professional timing system, including a dozen military units wearing boots & utes who ran in platoon formation. This being Texas, the runway was sloshing knee-deep in country-western testosterone and you could've cut the patriotism with a chainsaw. And the "starter's gun" was a piece of field artillery.
Lone Star Chevrolet | New Chevrolet dealership in Houston, TX 77065
We arrived at dawn, and as the sun rose I saw an impressive static display assembling along the runway. A private collector there has a Phantom which still flies. He said it had spent most of its career in Europe and he'd kept up its good condition. Other Phantom enthusiasts scour the world for scrapped airframes and surplus parts, and sell their salvage on eBay to keep the remaining jets flying. Of course this Phantom had been "demilitarized" by cutting most of the electronics cables, so the radar and weapons systems no longer functioned. But looked like it had three coats of wax, and he could fly it VFR. He was even taking up a couple of paying customers this week. I decided not to tease him about his "missing" tailhook...
F-4 continues long-time service to Air Force with new mission
I didn't get much time with him (a big crowd was gathering) so I don't know who he is or the aircraft's whole story. I doubt those officers actually flew this specific aircraft for BOLO. All the teenagers and 20-somethings knew nothing about the history they were observing, so I held a short training session. (There were a few 30-somethings in the class as well.) I may not be a dinosaur but I certainly felt like a woolly mammoth.
Operation Bolo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When we went back to the campus my daughter wanted to introduce me to her roommates. My head was still buzzing with USAA awareness from the blogger conference, so the very first thing I noticed on entering her new dorm room was the USAA logo. It was engraved on a citation plate attached to a very nice desk clock, announcing the owner's receipt of the USAA Spirit Award. Like me, you may be wondering "What's the USAA Spirit Award?!?"
Me: "Hey, honey, what's that for?"
Her: "Oh, our unit gets that from USAA for some spirit thing."
Me: "I see your name's engraved on it. Did you have to pay extra for that?"
Her: "No, they gave it to me."
Me: "Sooooo... does this mean that you won the unit's 2011 USAA Spirit Award?"
Her: "Um, yeah, I guess so. But I just think it's a really nice clock."
Teenagers. Engineering students. Navy officer candidates. Future submariners. Or maybe it's a "blissfully oblivious" gene.
Her college doesn't even mention the award on their website, but a few minutes with Google produced this from another ROTC website: "The USAA Spirit Award is given annually to the midshipman who best exemplifies the spirit of the unit, community, and the nation. Midshipmen receive a special award and certificate, and have their names engraved on a plaque in the ROTC building."
I sent an e-mail to my new USAA friends, who forwarded my thanks to the Spirit Award guys.
I don't miss active duty one bit (!) but I enjoyed the weekend.
(REWahoo! or one of you Houston Air Force vets, maybe you know more about this "aircraft owner". In retrospect I wish I'd had more time with him.)
While I was in San Antonio for USAA's blogger conference, I did a hit&run road trip to Houston to visit my daughter. (I'll be back next month for a proper E-R.org chapter meeting.) On Sunday she invited me to [-]haul supplies for[/-] watch her NROTC unit's participation in the 9/11 Travis Manion Memorial 5K at Ellington Airfield. I figured it'd be a few midshipmen & cadets jogging around a training building... but it was over 4000 racers and a professional timing system, including a dozen military units wearing boots & utes who ran in platoon formation. This being Texas, the runway was sloshing knee-deep in country-western testosterone and you could've cut the patriotism with a chainsaw. And the "starter's gun" was a piece of field artillery.
Lone Star Chevrolet | New Chevrolet dealership in Houston, TX 77065
We arrived at dawn, and as the sun rose I saw an impressive static display assembling along the runway. A private collector there has a Phantom which still flies. He said it had spent most of its career in Europe and he'd kept up its good condition. Other Phantom enthusiasts scour the world for scrapped airframes and surplus parts, and sell their salvage on eBay to keep the remaining jets flying. Of course this Phantom had been "demilitarized" by cutting most of the electronics cables, so the radar and weapons systems no longer functioned. But looked like it had three coats of wax, and he could fly it VFR. He was even taking up a couple of paying customers this week. I decided not to tease him about his "missing" tailhook...
F-4 continues long-time service to Air Force with new mission
I didn't get much time with him (a big crowd was gathering) so I don't know who he is or the aircraft's whole story. I doubt those officers actually flew this specific aircraft for BOLO. All the teenagers and 20-somethings knew nothing about the history they were observing, so I held a short training session. (There were a few 30-somethings in the class as well.) I may not be a dinosaur but I certainly felt like a woolly mammoth.
Operation Bolo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When we went back to the campus my daughter wanted to introduce me to her roommates. My head was still buzzing with USAA awareness from the blogger conference, so the very first thing I noticed on entering her new dorm room was the USAA logo. It was engraved on a citation plate attached to a very nice desk clock, announcing the owner's receipt of the USAA Spirit Award. Like me, you may be wondering "What's the USAA Spirit Award?!?"
Me: "Hey, honey, what's that for?"
Her: "Oh, our unit gets that from USAA for some spirit thing."
Me: "I see your name's engraved on it. Did you have to pay extra for that?"
Her: "No, they gave it to me."
Me: "Sooooo... does this mean that you won the unit's 2011 USAA Spirit Award?"
Her: "Um, yeah, I guess so. But I just think it's a really nice clock."
Teenagers. Engineering students. Navy officer candidates. Future submariners. Or maybe it's a "blissfully oblivious" gene.
Her college doesn't even mention the award on their website, but a few minutes with Google produced this from another ROTC website: "The USAA Spirit Award is given annually to the midshipman who best exemplifies the spirit of the unit, community, and the nation. Midshipmen receive a special award and certificate, and have their names engraved on a plaque in the ROTC building."
I sent an e-mail to my new USAA friends, who forwarded my thanks to the Spirit Award guys.
I don't miss active duty one bit (!) but I enjoyed the weekend.
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