Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2018, 06:57 PM   #41
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by bclover View Post
But one can learn from your own mistakes and experience can be the best teachers.

I'm with the others, don't compare the two and get some one else to administer the trust.
Yes, of course and hopefully he will learn from his own mistakes. Not everyone does, evident by those who have multiple bankruptcies. My daughter is the only family member I have who consistently has proven herself to be responsible in all areas of life. I'd be more inclined to trust her with my money, her money and pretty much anyone else's money....I don't have a "someone else" I can say the same about. Sounds like the Spendthrift Trust is what I need to look into. Guess I just have a real problem with the thought of rewarding the irresponsible. Reconciling that with wanting to be fair is the hard part.
Joylush is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-03-2018, 07:03 PM   #42
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarnstormer View Post
I expect people thought that about me. Never made much money, under 100k savings at age 50, did not own a home (tho I was a homeowner when I was married) but I can promise you that I protect my inheritance with extreme caution because I know it’s my only shot. It is a great comfort to know it’s there and I enjoy knowing I will never have to borrow money or be unable to pay bills.
I don’t have a history of questionable debts like your son but he is very young. Don’t compare him to his sister, compare him to the population at large.
I remember when my mom passed my accountant said “everyone” she knew that inherited money had spent it all in a few years. I mean to prove her wrong.
That is responsible behavior. I'd have no qualms leaving you an unrestricted inheritance.
Joylush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2018, 08:01 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
bclover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: philly
Posts: 1,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
Yes, of course and hopefully he will learn from his own mistakes. Not everyone does, evident by those who have multiple bankruptcies. My daughter is the only family member I have who consistently has proven herself to be responsible in all areas of life. I'd be more inclined to trust her with my money, her money and pretty much anyone else's money....I don't have a "someone else" I can say the same about. Sounds like the Spendthrift Trust is what I need to look into. Guess I just have a real problem with the thought of rewarding the irresponsible. Reconciling that with wanting to be fair is the hard part.
Hopefully you'll be around for a long time and it may not be an issue. He is still in his 20s. Believe me I was a waaay different person in my 20s then I was when my dad died thankfully in his late 80. I don't think your "rewarding" irresponsibility at all imo. Now the reality is that when this comes into play you'll be dead (pardon the bluntness). Even with a trust he can still be irresponsible just more slowly. What happens if sister deems he's a spendthrift?? Does she get vetoing powers??
Sounds like a sure fire way to tear two siblings apart.
__________________
My darling girl, when are you going to realize that being "normal" is not necessarily a virtue? it sometimes rather denotes a lack of courage~Aunt Francis
bclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 07:56 AM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
I hear what your're saying but I'm more in tune with Skipro33's sentiment. Some people are quite decent human beings but financially irresponsible. It's less about wanting to control them than it is about wanting to protect them from themselves or others who may take advantage of them. My adult sister being a prime example. My son, only time will tell. Giving vast sums of money to the irresponsible but good human being is enabling further bad decision making, and not a responsible use of the money.
I've read every one of your comments and in fact I think you are PO'd because the "exceptional" advice and "stellar" advice you gave you son about money has not yet taken hold unlike his DSister who is perfect.

It seems your son is actually 26, has a good job,is probably a kind decent young person who doesn't spend his money the way you would spend your money. Many parents would be thrilled to have a child like this.

If you do a trust make it for both kids and on the same terms, they are the ones that have to live with each other after you are gone. How awkward for them to deal with the "Mom liked you best and liked the way you spend money, but me not so much. Now if your son has an issue like substance abuse that's another story. But nothing you said here has indicted that.

In fact you want to control how your money is spent after you're dead, by controlling your son from the grave because at 26 he makes "stupid money" mistakes. The Roth example, most mid-20s kids have a hard time placing value on retirement goals decades into the future, especially when they don't have families. The 20's is a time to get this out of your system. Don't let your feelings about your sister spill over to young guy working his was through adulthood.

If you don't think that treating your kids differently in your will, will be taken as a slam to your DS, you aren't being realistic.
ivinsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 08:38 AM   #45
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 95
I am the executor of my dads trust but everything is split evenly. If my sister is mad about that so be it. She knows she is terrible with money. At 27 i was responsible in a lot of ways but i did finance things. It took a while to click about being debt free. Just a guess but the fact that he did pay of the credit cards is a sign that some of your lessons are sticking.
hilltide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 08:56 AM   #46
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
Well now that wouldn't be them spending your money would it, it would be you saying what bills you wanted to pay and not pay. You can never guarantee a "desired response" from anybody, unless you want to use a really big stick...not my style..
You can try to control from the grave. But it can be hard to do. It might not be your style. There is one case where I would try this. If a child had a large judgment against him/her. You could have the trust pay for living expenses directly and in such a way their creditors could not attach to the trust. In this case you would not be trying to change your child, but provide them with a reasonable living standard. Better than letting the $ get inherited and sucked by large obligations that might break the trust.
bingybear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 09:18 AM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
Actually the difference is how well they play along to your personal standards and arbitrary rule making. It's your money so there is no doubt you can do as you wish. Our standard is we did our best raising our 2 daughters to be decent human beings and they don't have to jump thru our hoops to prove they are worthy of our "Hard-earned".. leftover money.
Agree. Trying to impose your “arbitrary rules” on your kids to qualify for the inheritance seems wrong to me. Now if the rules are general and common sense maybe a little better. But still you shouldn’t try to control your kids this way.

Now if they are total losers, ie drug addicted felons, I can see the case for giving nothing, period.
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 09:20 AM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingybear View Post
You can try to control from the grave. But it can be hard to do. It might not be your style. There is one case where I would try this. If a child had a large judgment against him/her. You could have the trust pay for living expenses directly and in such a way their creditors could not attach to the trust. In this case you would not be trying to change your child, but provide them with a reasonable living standard. Better than letting the $ get inherited and sucked by large obligations that might break the trust.
Or if your child had a substance abuse problem and you worried access to money might lead to fatal consequences. Maybe your child has a spouse that is mentally ill or unstable, income from a trust could protect everyone.

These are different issues then you and your child not having the same money styles..
ivinsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 09:26 AM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
My recommendation, and what I have advised DD, is to tell them that they will likely inherit a good sum of money - some day. But that I intend to live so long that by the time they get it they will be so old they won't really be able to enjoy it. Getting a big inheritance when you are in your 60s isn't going to change your life. So make your own money, save it, invest it, and enjoy your life just as if the money doesn't exist. What you eventually get from me will likely just be held in trust for the next generation.
This seems right to me. I have helped my 33 year old daughter extensively. She is a hard working intelligent young woman and will be our only heir. Her inheritance will likely be well into 8 figures but she won’t likely get it until her 60’s. At that point it may not change her life but should make it a lot easier for the next generation.
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 10:11 AM   #50
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 5,656
I have six kiddos. They all got a roof over their heads, food, education, tutors when they needed it,used car, college if they choose it. They are all different and I haven't been able to gift equally. Guess what, it's not their business.

So for one I may have spent more for college. Another got to live at home for a long period of time rent free. One of my sons put his life on hold to help take care of my father when my father was ill. He will get more, I going to put him on one of the accounts as a TOD. Anyone who doesn't like it - tough. I will never forget what he did for my father. Most don't want kids, but now the first GC is on the way and that couple will be getting more gifting directly or via the GC than the others, excepting the one that helped with my father.

For your DS, Spendthrift trust, with professional trustee (to spare DD). However, you can change your mind if DS shapes up before you shuffle off this mortal coil. I would tell DS that he is going to have to make his financial way in this world, don't count on an inheritance. In the meantime, you can give DD some extra funds to pad her retirement accounts - if you so choose. You don't have to be exactly equal, although I would not be obnoxious about it.

It's your money, you're the boss, and your feelings are important in this scenario as well.
MarieIG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 10:21 AM   #51
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingybear View Post
You can try to control from the grave. But it can be hard to do. It might not be your style. There is one case where I would try this. If a child had a large judgment against him/her. You could have the trust pay for living expenses directly and in such a way their creditors could not attach to the trust. In this case you would not be trying to change your child, but provide them with a reasonable living standard. Better than letting the $ get inherited and sucked by large obligations that might break the trust.

I might seem cruel, but it would make a big difference to me what that judgement was about.... and if I thought the behavior bad enough I would probably not leave anything to them anyhow....

As an example, I have a nephew who got into drugs when in college... he has been living on welfare almost his entire life and cheating the system by earning income on the side and not reporting it... he had to leave one country he was living in as they were about to go after him for this behavior... he is a Hari Krishna... if he were my child I would not leave him a dime... I would bypass him and leave whatever was 'his' share to his kids.... one has had a tough time as his mother died when he was young and my nephew did not want him.... if nephew did not have any kids they it goes to the other kids....
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 11:42 AM   #52
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
I've read every one of your comments and in fact I think you are PO'd because the "exceptional" advice and "stellar" advice you gave you son about money has not yet taken hold unlike his DSister who is perfect.

It seems your son is actually 26, has a good job,is probably a kind decent young person who doesn't spend his money the way you would spend your money. Many parents would be thrilled to have a child like this.

If you do a trust make it for both kids and on the same terms, they are the ones that have to live with each other after you are gone. How awkward for them to deal with the "Mom liked you best and liked the way you spend money, but me not so much. Now if your son has an issue like substance abuse that's another story. But nothing you said here has indicted that.

In fact you want to control how your money is spent after you're dead, by controlling your son from the grave because at 26 he makes "stupid money" mistakes. The Roth example, most mid-20s kids have a hard time placing value on retirement goals decades into the future, especially when they don't have families. The 20's is a time to get this out of your system. Don't let your feelings about your sister spill over to young guy working his was through adulthood.

If you don't think that treating your kids differently in your will, will be taken as a slam to your DS, you aren't being realistic.


Yea, if DD doesn’t have money issues and DS does, what would the problem in putting both in a trust until age 45 or 50 (maybe paying div distros out as they are otherwise taxes at a high rate. DD probably won’t need the money anyways and will view it as additional savings to reach her goals.

Hopefully DS matures enough by then to use it wisely and if not, will he really get much better between 45-60?
pj.mask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 12:12 PM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,657
Quote:
I would have zero qualm leaving MY hard earned money to one sibling over the other. Or to neither if I thought neither deserved. Just because one or the other is responsible doesn't necessarily mean they deserve the money either. There are many reasons a child doesn't deserve an inheritance and financial responsibility is but one.
It is of course your right to do as you wish with your money, but beware the other effects it has. Children who think they are getting punished or their siblings are being unfairly rewarded can resent it and exacerbate any rifts in the family. Both of my parents siblings families harbor deep resentment over the way inheritances were handled, and none of them actually needed any of the money.

A sister who controls the purse strings of a brother's inheritance is being set up for tension and resentment. Brother will likely see it as "his" money and sister will likely see his demands as pestering or worse.

Personal standards, or worse undisclosed personal rules, for who gets what inheritance are practically guaranteed to damage sibling relationships as each resents the other: her poor life choices are rewarded, I'm being punished for my good life choices, she was always the favorite, you tricked him into this didn't you, and so on.
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 01:09 PM   #54
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
I've read every one of your comments and in fact I think you are PO'd because the "exceptional" advice and "stellar" advice you gave you son about money has not yet taken hold unlike his DSister who is perfect.

It seems your son is actually 26, has a good job,is probably a kind decent young person who doesn't spend his money the way you would spend your money. Many parents would be thrilled to have a child like this.

If you do a trust make it for both kids and on the same terms, they are the ones that have to live with each other after you are gone. How awkward for them to deal with the "Mom liked you best and liked the way you spend money, but me not so much. Now if your son has an issue like substance abuse that's another story. But nothing you said here has indicted that.

In fact you want to control how your money is spent after you're dead, by controlling your son from the grave because at 26 he makes "stupid money" mistakes. The Roth example, most mid-20s kids have a hard time placing value on retirement goals decades into the future, especially when they don't have families. The 20's is a time to get this out of your system. Don't let your feelings about your sister spill over to young guy working his was through adulthood.

If you don't think that treating your kids differently in your will, will be taken as a slam to your DS, you aren't being realistic.
Really, that's what you got from my question/concerns? I must not have explained things well. My son and daughter were both well educated in financial management. So it is disappointing to see one engaging in some poor or reckless choice decision making when it comes to finances. I make good investments and unfortunately at this point I don't believe giving him an outright inheritance would be a good use of my funds.

I had to chuckle as well over the "perfect daughter" comment which is something I never said. She is however quite financially responsible.

What I did say is my aim was equal treatment done in a responsible manner. My son has plenty of admirable traits. At this point in his life I simply can't say he's particularly smart with his money. I'm still smart with mine. That being said leaving it with someone who hasn't shown themselves to be a good steward of their own money wouldn't be a very smart move on my end.
Joylush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 01:21 PM   #55
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Augusta
Posts: 348
I am very financially responsible now but I spent a small ira ($700) when I was in my 20s, instead of rolling it over when I left a job and have kicked myself a thousand times over it. Honestly It’s been great as a learning moment about regrettable decisions for every twenty something I give the “save your money” talk to!
Your son will be fine. Please please don’t pit them against each other which is what will happen if you treat them differently. It’s human nature. Hopefully we are talking about many years in the future and everyone will have matured a little.
Yarnstormer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 01:23 PM   #56
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by growing_older View Post
It is of course your right to do as you wish with your money, but beware the other effects it has. Children who think they are getting punished or their siblings are being unfairly rewarded can resent it and exacerbate any rifts in the family. Both of my parents siblings families harbor deep resentment over the way inheritances were handled, and none of them actually needed any of the money.

A sister who controls the purse strings of a brother's inheritance is being set up for tension and resentment. Brother will likely see it as "his" money and sister will likely see his demands as pestering or worse.

Personal standards, or worse undisclosed personal rules, for who gets what inheritance are practically guaranteed to damage sibling relationships as each resents the other: her poor life choices are rewarded, I'm being punished for my good life choices, she was always the favorite, you tricked him into this didn't you, and so on.
Very true. I've seen plenty of cases where poor life choices are rewarded and good ones punished. In my case I won't ever be accused of my daughter being my favorite because I've only ever been accused of the opposite no matter how equal I thought I was being. I'd have to say I don't really have any undisclosed personal rules as I've always been quite upfront as far as what I believe constitutes smart financial decision making goes. Just never been one to advocate rewarding bad or reckless behavior.
Joylush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 01:26 PM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
Really, that's what you got from my question/concerns? I must not have explained things well. My son and daughter were both well educated in financial management. So it is disappointing to see one engaging in some poor or reckless choice decision making when it comes to finances. I make good investments and unfortunately at this point I don't believe giving him an outright inheritance would be a good use of my funds.
Just out of curiosity, where were you when you were 27? Married? Homeowner? Renter? In debt? Positive net worth? If you were like most people here as well as you DS, it would be somewhat hypocritical to be holding him to a much higher standard than you were held to. When I was 27 DW was pregnant, we were struggling to make our mortgage, we had maybe 10K savings (no investments), and were living pretty poor. I'd hate to have been cut off by being judged at that age. I turned out pretty well, and RE'd at age 50. Obviously you'll do what you want, but if I needed a will in your situation, I'd just do 50/50 in case I died young. Then revisit it in 10-20 years, see what's up. That's my free advice.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 01:28 PM   #58
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarnstormer View Post
I am very financially responsible now but I spent a small ira ($700) when I was in my 20s, instead of rolling it over when I left a job and have kicked myself a thousand times over it. Honestly It’s been great as a learning moment about regrettable decisions for every twenty something I give the “save your money” talk to!
Your son will be fine. Please please don’t pit them against each other which is what will happen if you treat them differently. It’s human nature. Hopefully we are talking about many years in the future and everyone will have matured a little.
You are right. That is something I'd prefer to avoid. At this point I may gift to my daughter now and set aside an equal amount to gift to him later. Different but equal.
Joylush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 01:34 PM   #59
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
Very true. I've seen plenty of cases where poor life choices are rewarded and good ones punished. In my case I won't ever be accused of my daughter being my favorite because I've only ever been accused of the opposite no matter how equal I thought I was being. I'd have to say I don't really have any undisclosed personal rules as I've always been quite upfront as far as what I believe constitutes smart financial decision making goes. Just never been one to advocate rewarding bad or reckless behavior.
You do understand the view of bad or reckless behavior is a personal judgement, not set in stone?

At this stage in his young life your son does not have the same money values you do. Maybe he never will, but the term bad and reckless comes from you. People get tattoos and buy motorcycles and mess up insurance, cash out IRA's it happens. Maybe he's not prudent with his money, or has trouble managing day to day finance...calling this a "poor life choice" is a little over the top....using drugs, or ending up in prison or driving drunk is a "poor life choice"
ivinsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 01:45 PM   #60
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
Just out of curiosity, where were you when you were 27? Married? Homeowner? Renter? In debt? Positive net worth? If you were like most people here as well as you DS, it would be somewhat hypocritical to be holding him to a much higher standard than you were held to. When I was 27 DW was pregnant, we were struggling to make our mortgage, we had maybe 10K savings (no investments), and were living pretty poor. I'd hate to have been cut off by being judged at that age. I turned out pretty well, and RE'd at age 50. Obviously you'll do what you want, but if I needed a will in your situation, I'd just do 50/50 in case I died young. Then revisit it in 10-20 years, see what's up. That's my free advice.
I've always been financially advanced. I had goals very early on. Heck, I opened an IRA during my first year out of college, age 22 (before most people had ever heard of them). Made about $13,000 that year and invested $600 in the IRA which I still have. Bought my first rental property at age 24, which I still own. Never have had any debt, no credit card, student loan or car loan debt (occasional mortgages although I never purchased a property with less than 20% down because my personal standard was anything less was not affordable). Just always been good at delaying gratification and valuing long term goals. Had student loans but paid them off during my military service because interest was suspended so they were paid off at zero percent.

So no, I couldn't possibly hold him to that standard. But he had the gift of a free college education, a paid off vehicle and graduated with a Roth IRA and other investments which had been established for him during childhood. He's quite high income compared to his peers and chooses to live paycheck to paycheck. Yes, chooses. He's setting himself up to struggle or not be able to retire like so many people do. I have a hard time respecting that behavior let alone rewarding it. Actions have consequences.
Joylush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to avoid an awkward prenup discussion when you have adult children... Nords FIRE and Money 24 08-12-2011 10:08 AM
Providing catastrophic medical insurance for adult children samclem Health and Early Retirement 12 11-29-2009 06:41 PM
Adult children on the hook for deadbeat Mom. Cattusbabe FIRE and Money 22 07-14-2009 09:05 AM
The Recession & our Adult children Moemg Other topics 100 06-18-2009 04:33 PM
Adult children living in another area: how often do they visit? Orchidflower Life after FIRE 42 08-21-2007 08:30 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:05 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.