Amazon's Tablet

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Yes, according to Amazon it has a built in browser designed to be very speedy.

I understand it is the Android browser which, at least on my smartphone, is quite good.

 

[REWahoo]

Rich, all I know is what I read on the intertubes:

Fire Silk browser

I've seen some security concerns about the browser's "man in the middle" architecture, but you can apparently turn it off and use the browser to bypass the Amazon 'cloud':

Amazon’s Kindle Fire Silk browser has serious security concerns | ZDNet

 

[DallasGuy]

I would think that a $200 Kindle Fire would hurt Apple IPAD sales because there are many people out there that might consider buying an IPAD for $500 or $600 but are on the fence because of price. At $200 the Kindle Fire is a much cheaper, less capable device but many people will buy it on price alone, especially now that the economy is weak and people have less money to blow on toys. And if people are only looking for a basic device to surf the net and perhaps add a few apps, they will not spend the extra amount required to buy an IPAD.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I've seen some security concerns about the browser's "man in the middle" architecture, but you can apparently turn it off and use the browser to bypass the Amazon 'cloud':

Amazon’s Kindle Fire Silk browser has serious security concerns | ZDNet

Interesting. Apparentlly Android-based hardware vendors are free to replace or modify the native Android OS, so maybe Amazon built their own or added/modified the original.

The reviews should be helpful - stuff loved by techies.

 

[KingB]

One thing that I noticed is that some of the Kindle products offer both 3G (free) and Wifi but the Kindle Fire only has Wifi. That would limit your web browsing when wifi is not available as when riding as a passenger in a car. There are also places, like Chicago's ORD that do not have free wifi.

 

[REWahoo]

One thing that I noticed is that some of the Kindle products offer both 3G (free) and Wifi but the Kindle Fire only has Wifi. That would limit your web browsing when wifi is not available as when riding as a passenger in a car. There are also places, like Chicago's ORD that do not have free wifi.

True, but if Amazon offered 3G connectivity you'd almost certainly have to pay a monthly fee to have internet access outside a wifi network, just as you do for the iPad.

Amazon offers 3G connectivity (free) on the Kindle because they cut a deal with AT&T (or whoever) for limited access to download books or order Amazon products. Unlike the Fire, no real browsing or heavy bandwidth use is practical on the Kindles.

As has been said, the Fire doesn't have all the bells and whistles found on the iPad. It also sells for at least 60% less and requires no monthly internet access fee. It may not work for everyone but it will fill the bill for a lot of people. Only time will tell if the product is a real success.

 

[TromboneAl]

IMO - Competition is GOOOOOOOOOD....... No matter what product you like, we all win!!!

Tell that to the betamax owners.

 

[chinaco]

Tell that to the betamax owners.

Betamax owners? Were there any?? I thought that was the problem!

 

[rescueme]

Betamax owners? Were there any?? I thought that was the problem!

Unfortunately, the old axiom of "quantity over quality" prevailed in that "war".

"Back in the day", we used Beta for corporate communications/training. IMHO, the quality of the picture/sound was much better than my simple home unit (which was less expensive than Beta).

You pander to the masses if you are running a common business. Not everybody is willing to pay for quality (reference: Wally World)...

 

[ERD50]

Tell that to the betamax owners.

I don't understand how that = 'competition not good'?

People forget, that while BetaMax had higher picture quality, the playing time was less than VHS. Many people chose convenience over absolute quality. The market spoke. There are different ways to measure 'value'.

What's the alternative - shut down competition? How would that work? I guess we could not allow development of the DVD, or streaming video, or Blu-Ray. Floppy discs instead of USB flash drives? Who would decide?

Sure, there are growing pains along the way with competition, some dead ends. It still seems better than any alternative.

-ERD50

 

[chinaco]

Rich, all I know is what I read on the intertubes:

Fire Silk browser

I've seen some security concerns about the browser's "man in the middle" architecture, but you can apparently turn it off and use the browser to bypass the Amazon 'cloud':

Amazon’s Kindle Fire Silk browser has serious security concerns | ZDNet

This might be a concern to some. Aside for the MIM exploit... just basic privacy concerns.

Amazon Silk’s terms and conditions state that Amazon will keep your the Web addresses you visit, the IP addresses you use, and your Kindle Fire’s unique media access control (MAC) addresses for 30 days. With that information, Amazon can track your every Web move.

I wonder if AMZN Fire will allow users to install other mobile browser software... (e.g., Firefox)?

 

[TromboneAl]

I don't understand how that = 'competition not good'?

It points out one of the downsides of competition -- lack of standardization.

 

[ERD50]

It points out one of the downsides of competition -- lack of standardization.

Everything has downsides. Rigid adherence to standardization can thwart progress.

There's balance in everything, I just don't think the Beta/VHS story is a good argument against open competition. If you are going to get into a new technology early, you risk making the 'wrong' choice. If that is a big deal to you, wait for the market to settle in. For many, having the tech for that period of time is reward enough.

I have trouble imagining a world where we would have said "Hey, you VHS development guys - stop what you're doing! We have Beta, and it's good enough! So what if people have to change the tape in the middle of a movie!" Who would make these decisions?

It's not really a matter of 'standardization'. We can have standards, and it does not stop anyone from promoting alternate technology (it just means stuff sold under that standard must actually meet the standard). Vinyl LPs were made to a standard, 33 1/3 RPM, RIAA equalization, limits on groove excursions, etc. We still got the CD and solid state players.

I guess I don't understand where you are coming from on this.

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

Not an argument against competition, just pointing out a downside of competition in a humorous way. It was a joke.

 

[westcoast]

The Amazon tablet can only be compared to the least expensive iPad, given that they both lack 3G/4G capability. The price comparison should also take into account that the Amazon tablet has a smaller screen than the iPad, so the comparison isn't exactly Apples to...well, you get the idea. Seems to me that Apple has to drop the price of the entry level iPad by at least $100 to prevent loss of market share.

 

[REWahoo]

Seems to me that Apple has to drop the price of the entry level iPad by at least $100 to prevent loss of market share.

I don't recall anything in Apple's past product strategy indicating they're willing to compete on price, but we can always hope this will be an exception. It will be interesting to see what happens if the Amazon tablet gains some significant market share.

 

[Beryl]

The Amazon tablet can only be compared to the least expensive iPad, given that they both lack 3G/4G capability.

Or compare to the iPod Touch 4th Gen which goes for around the same price. You trade off iPod's BT, webcam, and mic for the Fire's screen size and Flash.

I don't recall anything in Apple's past product strategy indicating they're willing to compete on price, but we can always hope this will be an exception. It will be interesting to see what happens if the Amazon tablet gains some significant market share.

ITA. I expect Apple to just add more features to it's offerings and keep the same price.

 

[samclem]

Seems to me that Apple has to drop the price of the entry level iPad by at least $100 to prevent loss of market share.

Apple has a great reputation for product design and for software/hardware compatibility that is unmatched by rivals. They also still have a big advantage over Android-based machines based on the number of apps (and the quality of those apps). The Fire might well take market share from Apple if it sells enough units to induce developers to churn out versions of their iPad apps for it.

As "thrifty" as I am, I recently bought a (bottom-of-the-line) iPad strictly to run a single app, and to do it with nearly 100% reliability. It's my first Apple computer. I think it's okay.

 

[ERD50]

Seems to me that Apple has to drop the price of the entry level iPad by at least $100 to prevent loss of market share.

I don't recall anything in Apple's past product strategy indicating they're willing to compete on price, but we can always hope this will be an exception. It will be interesting to see what happens if the Amazon tablet gains some significant market share.

ITA. I expect Apple to just add more features to it's offerings and keep the same price.

Agree with the responses to westcoast. Price dropping to compete with a lesser product is just not the way Apple does business. And it seems to work for them (slight understatement). So far, Apple has basically said they just don't care to compete in the low end price range.

Amazon's product may do well, but it is stripped down compared to an iPad. Just not in the same market. If Apple feels the need to respond, they will make a stripped down version (like they did with the Shuffle Ipod), and keep the price on the higher products the same.

-ERD50

 

[flyfishnevada]

Seems Apple is fine building superior hardware and a loyal following. I'm curious to see of the Fire is as smooth as the iPad. If it's even close ti's probably worth the $200. I am thinking this is a great option for my DW. It's cheap enough to buy even if you only use it for reading and a few games here and there, which is what she would like.

 

[westcoast]

Agree with the responses to westcoast. Price dropping to compete with a lesser product is just not the way Apple does business. And it seems to work for them (slight understatement). So far, Apple has basically said they just don't care to compete in the low end price range.

-ERD50

Weren't iPhones significantly more expensive when first introduced? What about the price point on iMacs? They're more than PCs but lower than what Apple charged five years ago for entry level machines.

 

[chinaco]

Right now there are 3 maybe 5 OS platforms that will be be in the market place:

1. Windows
2. Android(s)
3. Apple OS
4. Some other hopefuls (HP with the palm pilot purchase, RIM).

MS (and their partners) will really push apple on the same quality at a lower price point. We will see what happens there.

The Android offers are compelling too.

I am somewhat price sensitive. If the lower cost product is a lot lower and of sufficient quality and capability... I will buy the lower cost product. I would probably only buy the other product if there were some intangible preference that really mattered to me.

I am not willing to pay an extra 25% or 50% for the cachet of a brand.

AMZN and Apple have different strategies and motives. Apple is selling a general tablet device to be used for whatever. AMZN is selling a book reader/POS terminal that can be used for browsing and other things... for which they expect a low return on the device and big returns on future sales from the AMZN sales and service platforms.

 

[Brett_Cameron]

Apple makes a lot of money both on sales of content and their hardware. In this they are like Amazon. Amazon sells physical goods as well so the hardware they are selling is a means to sell more content and to sell physical goods. There is some overlap between the two companies.

 

[ERD50]

What about the price point on iMacs? They're more than PCs but lower than what Apple charged five years ago for entry level machines.

Apple iMac Specs (All iMac Technical Specs) @ EveryMac.com

No, not really. Original iMac G3 from 1998 was $1299 entry level, and that price has pretty much remained the same through its history. Currently $1199 - not significantly lower than the $1299 from 2006. They did have some 'stripped down' iMac G3s for a while @ $799. But generally, they add features and hold the price.

Weren't iPhones significantly more expensive when first introduced?

They dropped the price shortly after introduction. I don't know if that was a change in philosophy to go from high-end niche to a wider audience, or if sales were below expectations. Other than that I don't follow iPhone pricing, but I doubt they are playing a 'price war' game, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

And they certainly won't get in a price war with a lower featured device (no camera, etc). If they want to play there, they will create a lower priced model - but I don't think a no-camera-no-mic fits in with what they want to sell at this point. They have proven time and time again, you don't need to get into every market - you get into the markets where you can make a profit.

Darn, I wish I still held their stock!

-ERD50

 

[TromboneAl]

... the Amazon tablet has a smaller screen than the iPad...

The smaller size could be a selling point for someone who doesn't want to "lug around" the larger iPad. I find the iPod touch screen big enough for most apps. I would like it to be a little larger for reading ebooks.