An excellent description of frugality

[Sesq]

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Originally Posted by Sarah in SC I liked this, from the article as well: “Freedom is a low overhead” Simple.

That was my favorite part too. Not that I am living it being in full on family raising mode.

[Revlefty]

I'm all for down-sizing and de-cluttering, but the million dollar question is: How do I get my DW on board with this new way of thinking? She likes clutter and having piles of "stuff." And she has already told me that she doesn't want to move once I retire. Help!

[gcgang]

I like the part, "that's what financial independence is. You don't have to answer to anyone because you have enough".

"Enough" is very subjective, but if you achieve your version of it, you become FI.

Very nice article.

[CaliforniaMan]

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Originally Posted by Walt34 The book has a space on my bookshelf. It's worth reading. Like most others here DW and I always prefer smaller group gatherings where there is more time to focus on a few individuals than have to endure a large party and the attendant noise and distractions. I teased a relative who had just come back from a cruise on a large ship and told her we too had just returned from a West Virginia River Cruise. That's one in which you take your 10' boat powered with a 5hp outboard, motor upriver for 30 minutes, and spend the rest of the time drifting back down with the current enjoying your ham & cheese sandwiches and a box of fine wine. She didn't get it.

Your cruise sounds great to me!! I have seen the big cruise ships when they dock here in San Diego. Can't imagine how horrible it would be to be stuck with those crowds in that small space for a week or more.

But picturing floating down river enjoying a ham & cheese, paradise. Can I have a beer with it too?

[haha]

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Originally Posted by Sarah in SC I liked this, from the article as well: “Freedom is a low overhead” Simple.

This very thing has been my signpost for a very long time. I tried to teach it to my sons, but failed. When I was about 10 a cousin of my Dad's who had inherited a lot of money a decade before, went broke. He lost control of a sand and gravel company just before the great suburban building surge of the '50s My Dad was telling me about it, so I asked what happened. "High overhead" was his only comment.

I never forgot it. Whatever or whoever would increase my overhead is not likely to find favor with me.


Ha

[Gazingus]

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Originally Posted by Meadbh I agree. In particular, spending money on big banquets, Christmas and theme parties, etc. is a total waste as far as I am concerned. I really do not enjoy them and usually find an excuse not to go. I do enjoy informal dinner parties and host them sporadically. It's nice to see how other people live, and I love to see the architecture and design of their homes, but any notions that I might once have had about having a beautiful stately home have been long abandoned. My 2 bedroom condo has the privacy I need and is just the right size for me. I can justify the second bedroom because I use it as a multipurpose room, and a friend recently stayed overnight during a snowstorm.

We downsized from 2400 sq ft to 800 sq ft three years ago and I can't believe how much I like it now. It's so cozy and warm (100% woodstove heating) and still has a gourmet kitchen. I was pondering the 8 ft vanity in a friend's guest bathroom the other day as I compared it to the 3' in our only bathroom and wondering why all that space? Also the huge house with vaulted ceilings felt kinda drafty even though the electric furnace was blowing almost constantly.

Disclaimer: It might help to live in 800 sq ft when you have a 72 acre yard, but I couldn't say.

[Options]

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Originally Posted by Major Tom I'm not sure if I can blame this solely on my being INTJ but with a very few exceptions, planned social time spent with other people usually requires me to steel myself beforehand and then involves a period of "decompression" afterwards. My SO is not one of those people, thankfully! Not needing much quantity when it comes to social contact was a big factor in enabling me to save, and has been a significant factor in my being able to live on a modest income in ER. I know the disproportionate number of INTJ's here has been discussed before (though I know there are many extroverts, as well as other "types" of introverts here too.) I couldn't agree more. Using our resources wisely depends very much on being in touch with our true needs and desires. IMO, frugality can be just as relevant for those with high incomes as it is to those of us at the lower end of the income spectrum.

Very timely post, as soon to FIRE for me (end of this year) has me reevaluating many things. I, too, don't engage in the social contract at all like I did when I was younger. Already intending on downsizing substantially when I sell my current residence, I've also quite recently been rethinking even buying again. I mean, why buy when you can have the freedom of renting? Don't like the neighbors? Pick up and leave. Don't like how the building's run? Move. Want to explore living elsewhere? No real estate to sell. Meanwhile, no maintenance or condo fees, no property taxes, no cash tied up.

[robnplunder]

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Originally Posted by Walt34 The book has a space on my bookshelf. It's worth reading. Like most others here DW and I always prefer smaller group gatherings where there is more time to focus on a few individuals than have to endure a large party and the attendant noise and distractions. I teased a relative who had just come back from a cruise on a large ship and told her we too had just returned from a West Virginia River Cruise. That's one in which you take your 10' boat powered with a 5hp outboard, motor upriver for 30 minutes, and spend the rest of the time drifting back down with the current enjoying your ham & cheese sandwiches and a box of fine wine. She didn't get it.

DW started organizing her family reunion cruise. Now it has ballooned into her family + 4 of her family's "in-law" families. 25+ people gathering of all ages (10 - 86), and from all walks of life. It's gonna be fun for some but is definitely not my cup of tea. But this cruise is one of the many things we agree to splurge on before our RE. Didn't figure it to be a mass event.

[Walt34]

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Originally Posted by robnplunder DW started organizing her family reunion cruise. Now it has ballooned into her family + 4 of her family's "in-law" families. 25+ people gathering of all ages (10 - 86), and from all walks of life. It's gonna be fun for some but is definitely not my cup of tea. But this cruise is one of the many things we agree to splurge on before our RE. Didn't figure it to be a mass event.

I could do that once in a while. Or maybe only once depending on how it turned out. DW would not want to at all.

[martyp]

My analysis of my pre-ER spending was that a fair amount of my spending was really about dealing with or reducing w*rk stress. Once I ER'd I realized I didn't really want to spend my money that way. My spending automatically went down.

[Options]

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Originally Posted by martyp My analysis of my pre-ER spending was that a fair amount of my spending was really about dealing with or reducing w*rk stress. Once I ER'd I realized I didn't really want to spend my money that way. My spending automatically went down.

That strikes a chord, because as frugal as I am, I have not and do not spend to reduce w*rk stress (I probably just drink a lot instead ). FIRE in 2015, and at that time, I'll actually be spending much more than I am now and have been. This doesn't work for everyone, but with the uncertainty in the job market, my goal above all else was to have all retirement saved up. Now that that's done, the purse springs will really loosen this year, and much more starting next year. Thing is, I'm not looking forward to it (other than the travel!) as I hate shopping, but must do it (need a new bed, mattress, getting a new car, house to be remodeled before selling, etc.).

[martyp]

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Originally Posted by Options That strikes a chord, because as frugal as I am, I have not and do not spend to reduce w*rk stress (I probably just drink a lot instead ). FIRE in 2015, and at that time, I'll actually be spending much more than I am now and have been. This doesn't work for everyone, but with the uncertainty in the job market, my goal above all else was to have all retirement saved up. Now that that's done, the purse springs will really loosen this year, and much more starting next year. Thing is, I'm not looking forward to it (other than the travel!) as I hate shopping, but must do it (need a new bed, mattress, getting a new car, house to be remodeled before selling, etc.).

Many people do some pent up spending at the start of ER. We replaced the roof and painted the house. Some other things balance each other out such as: I don't build up travel miles due to my 45mi/day commute but I took some cross country road trips that made up the difference. On the other hand I've given up expensive trips to the wine country and dining at the more expensive restaurants. Also, didn't really buy clothes much the first two years. My net spending is down.

[target2019]

The article is pretty good, and generates broad discussion.

I have different approaches to frugality. At work I'll eat a bag of ramen noodles for lunch. It is amazing how much you can waste going out for fast food. There is a serious dose of carbs and calories with that Whopper as well. I've gone back and forth with this over the last decade. There are periods of time when I don't go with the frugal lunch. I have more social contact with fellow cube-dwellers, but my waste expands!

Just got out my Kill A Watt and measured output of a fan I have on timer to ventilate a crawl space. It uses 31 watts, and costs us $25 to operate 16 hours each day in a year. No big deal, but I found a smaller, quieter, desk fan at work, and put that into use. It uses 16 watts, and the operating cost is cut in half.

I used this energy calculator.

I don't think my examples are unusual for a LBYM'er. It helps to revisit costs from time to time, as you do find opportunity to save. It's just a matter of how far you go without driving others around you crazy!

[John Galt III]

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Originally Posted by Revlefty I'm all for down-sizing and de-cluttering, but the million dollar question is: How do I get my DW on board with this new way of thinking? She likes clutter and having piles of "stuff." And she has already told me that she doesn't want to move once I retire. Help!

Even if you move into a clean, empty new place, how can you stop her from cluttering up the new place? If you stay in your current house, maybe you can designate certain rooms as "clutter-free", and let her keep her "stuff" (I know, piles of nearly useless stuff, right?) in her "zones". Good luck.

[jollystomper]

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Originally Posted by John Galt III Even if you move into a clean, empty new place, how can you stop her from cluttering up the new place? If you stay in your current house, maybe you can designate certain rooms as "clutter-free", and let her keep her "stuff" (I know, piles of nearly useless stuff, right?) in her "zones". Good luck.

This is what we have done... we have "clutter free zones" and "clutter zones" as DW also likes to collect stuff. Interestingly, she started reducing the clutter once she saw how much her clutter was put together (e.g. consolidating all bookcases in one area vs. scattering them through almost every room).

I liked the article. Our "frugality" it more means targeting a savings/investing rate and budget that still leaves room for fun. For example, this is where our individual "no questions asked" accounts come into play - $X amount a month that we can do what we want with, which actually has worked out well for us to indulge in "non-frugal" things.

[Ally]

I am comforted by so many like minded folks on this board. My husband and I will soon retire, with no bills. We have nice used cars and a decent home in a family neighborhood. We like it because we have all ages around us. We could have afforded a home and vehicles worth so much more, but why? As long as we are safe and stress free, that's all that matters. We have no desire to impress anyone.

[daylatedollarshort]

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Originally Posted by target2019 Just got out my Kill A Watt and measured output of a fan I have on timer to ventilate a crawl space. It uses 31 watts, and costs us $25 to operate 16 hours each day in a year. No big deal, but I found a smaller, quieter, desk fan at work, and put that into use. It uses 16 watts, and the operating cost is cut in half.

We have been going through the budget and energy costs doing the same thing. After going around with a Kill A Watt, I replaced a real fan I used at night for white noise with a repeating fan "song" I play on an iPod docked on a clock radio at night.

Our electric rates are tiered and quite high in the higher tiers, so for us this one small change alone meant about $100 a year in savings, or $1K over ten years.

We found so many little changes like that once we really started examining our budget that we were shocked at how much we could save annually without really even changing our basic lifestyle. I wish we had watched our budget like this starting decades ago instead of the last two years.

[Walt34]

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Originally Posted by Ally I am comforted by so many like minded folks on this board. My husband and I will soon retire, with no bills.

Apparently we on this board are outliers, mostly INTJ and ISTJ personality types. The subject has come up before in other threads. Almost all are puzzled and confounded by other's apparent inability to defer immediate gratification for long-term gain.

No doubt you have noticed that other people think you're "weird". Here, you're normal.

[robnplunder]

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Originally Posted by martyp Many people do some pent up spending at the start of ER.

I am doing it now before RE - bought a new car, made arrangements for couple of travels (international & domestic), joined a golf club, ..... Having LBYM'd all my life, I expect spending big $$$ in RE will be difficult even if I budget for them. Saving slowed down quite a bit but it will come back to normal once my pent up spending is dealt with.

[Ally]

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Originally Posted by Walt34 Apparently we on this board are outliers, mostly INTJ and ISTJ personality types. The subject has come up before in other threads. Almost all are puzzled and confounded by other's apparent inability to defer immediate gratification for long-term gain. No doubt you have noticed that other people think you're "weird". Here, you're normal.

Yes, definitely. Many people ask us why we don't buy new cars, or are we going to build a new home when we retire. Uh, no... Lol. We are perfectly happy spending the money on travel and saving. We mostly spend time with family and pets. Both of us are managers, dealing with lots of people, phone calls, complaints, and meetings at work. We can't wait to drastically reduce our interactions with others, especially those we don't want to deal with. I can't wait.