Angry at the hospital

[trumpeting_angel]

If your father had a urinary tract infection upon admission, his mental faculties were most likely compromised until that was treated. Unlike in younger and middle-aged people, UTIs in the elderly produce a dementia-like mental status, with great confusion.

He may not have been able at that point to be heard, and it’s possible that once his mind began to clear they already stopped listening.

But what a boondoggle! If he was compromised psychologically on admission, it seems it would be important to involve family members. And if not, what the hell kind of plan is withholding water and removing his IV?

When my sister died (at 47) I was irrationally angry about all sorts of things, like the way the flower arrangement for her coffin turned out, and neighbors stopping by with more food than I could possibly have stored in the fridge. It’s easy to get angry at an easy target at a time like this. I understand the responses here suggesting that the OP should focus on his good memories. But I agree with the OP. This was egregious.

Sometimes I think folks in that stage of life receive better care in tiny community hospitals, like one where I worked here in Vermont. 25 beds. A helipad ready to send a complex patient to Dartmouth Hitchcock. Do you go there for neurosurgery? No. But for an elderly person nearing the end...there IS supposed to be care in healthcare.

 

[davebarnes]

I, and my brother, became very angry at the [Emerson, Concord, MA] hospital because they tried to keep our father alive when it was [past] time for him to die.
They did intravenous and oxygen. They would not give him enough morphine.
He was 95.5 years old and his gag reflex had failed. He was not going to get better and go home.
It was not until we got the hospice crew in control that it ended. Quickly. 30 minutes.
Angry. You bet.

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

.
Nowadays, I would not have any family member in the hospital without another family member there overseeing care on a daily basis. Too many things can and do go wrong, sad to say.

This is the unfortunate truth. I've seen it up close, both with my dad and my son. If I (certainly not a health care expert) had not been there to watch, ask questions, and follow up, both cases would have ended up badly.

In my fathers case, I had brought him in to the ER while staying with him while my brother was on vacation. My sister-in-law had a prepared list of medicines he was taking which I presented to the ER when I took him. They still managed to get the meds listed incorrectly with one listed as him being allergenic to it but in reality requiring it. I had to tell them every day, multiple times, because each nurse would repeat the same incorrect thing.

In my sons case, three emergency surgeries in three weeks time. After the second one, they had hooked up a stomach pump (can't remember what it was called) to remove bile (he had just had an operation for a small bowel obstruction). This was about 1AM in the morning, and the machine looked ancient. There were several nurses there, and from their conversation it became clear that they were not familiar with the machine. They hooked it up, and afterwards I looked up the ancient manual (thankfully scanned by somebody at some point in time) and read through it quickly. I discovered that they had set the suction pressure too high and that at that level it could/would eventually cause serious damage to the stomach lining. I called them in (which itself can be difficult because they are off treating other patients) and fortunately we got the issue resolved.

Both of these hospitals (different ones in different cities) had/have great reputations. But the system itself leads to these kinds of errors. There is lots of specialization, but no one person there has the responsibility to coordinate care...and if you (or other family) aren't there 24x7 AND knowledgeable enough to keep aware and ask questions - look out.

It's a scary thing. I can only imagine where things will go as the boomer's (now "OK Boomer" is a derogatory term) start to "age out".

 

[gwraigty]

I'm sorry for what you've gone through. I can relate to your frustration somewhat. My mother died at home from cancer at the age of 48 in 1991. I had no idea what proper procedures should have been then. My mother had a DNR, but no detailed healthcare directive. She insisted on dying at home. It was an awful ordeal for my grandparents and I. She didn't do us or herself any favors by it. As just one of the consequences of my mother's decision, she received no IV fluids for hydration or nutrition after she became unable eat or drink. The nurse who came to our house once a month said that it didn't matter anymore. The official cause of death on the certificate was metastatic breast cancer, but I'd guess that dehydration and starvation hastened her end a bit. Omitting many details, I wonder if it was more agonizing for us to have watched that part of it all then for her to have gone through it.

 

[robnplunder]

IMHO, when it's time to let go, let it be pleasant in hospice with loved ones near. There is no reason to stress the natural progression of life. Procedures that cause pain and stress are inhuman to an elderly person. To extend their life a week or two? It's malpractice IMHO.

+1.

 

[marko]

We filed a police report, but the hospital has been non responsive.

Forget the police report. Nothing gets an organization's attention like a lawyer showing up at the door.

You say you don't want a lawsuit, that's ok, you don't have to go that route. But a lawyer would get you the answers/response/apology you deserve. If the lawyer is able to get you some additional 'gratification' all the better.

 

[GravitySucks]

Sorry for your loss.
I've found most hospitals going beyond what is wished than less than. It can be as upsetting too.
The no hydration and the missing wallet are inexcusable.

 

[Rianne]

In my sons case, three emergency surgeries in three weeks time. After the second one, they had hooked up a stomach pump (can't remember what it was called) to remove bile (he had just had an operation for a small bowel obstruction). This was about 1AM in the morning, and the machine looked ancient.

I had a small bowel obstruction. Pray tell your son has recovered. I did not have surgery because they used an NG (nasogastric tube) that removed bile from my small bowel. I believe the stomach pump you referred to is the NG tube. It is awful to insert. You have to be awake and swallow until it reaches the exact location in your stomach. This takes multiple ex-rays. The tube and pump remain for several days. Came within an hour of surgery. The tube was successful. I just about cried when I read your post.

 

[SumDay]

OP, I am SO sorry you went through this. I hope your anger passes with time, and they you get answers to your questions and issues. It's a stressful time, I remember... Be kind to yourself.

When my dad had suffered a stroke and fell down a flight of stairs, he also failed the swallow test. I had to fight like h*ll to get the hospital & docs to honor his POA and Advanced Directive (AD).

A hospice representative told me that hospitals are in the business of making people well, and letting people die just isn't one of their specialties. In fact they tried to shame me into ignoring the AD.

Hospice also suggested that, for ourselves, we craft a letter explaining how we define "quality of life". Think of every scenario you can, just to make it clear. I was shocked how little weight POA and AD carry, and hope a letter will help my kids with any guilt and uncertainty they may experience.

 

[ncbill]

This is scary.

Yes, it shows just how poor a tool a DNR often is for carrying out end of life wishes.

With a DNR you're handing authority to medical staff who have likely never before seen the patient but now have the authority to interpret what is often very vague language.

Obviously, "no heroic measures" meant very different things to the OP vs. those doctors who made the treatment decisions.

Instead, every competent adult should have a health care POA.

It allows you to designate a health care agent who, if you grant them broad enough powers, can consent to/withhold consent for any medical procedures, including making sure you receive comfort/palliative/Hospice care.

Of course you need to discuss in detail your end-of-life wishes with your agent.

 

[HI Bill]

While the wallet incident is unfortunate, it is likely a mute point, and not worth pursuing (no proof, no evidence, no likelihood of receiving 'justice'). Hospitals always tell patients not to keep valuables in their rooms/with them.

But the standard of care is what I would focus on, if you wish to pursue anything. Sad end, and probably premature, but at least his suffering didn't go on for a really long time. Condolences.

 

[Sanstar]

You could call The Joint Commission (used to be called Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation Organization. JACHO) and register a complaint of medical neglect for withholding hydration and failing to meet the basic standard of care for treating a UTI. Also, hospitals are required to have a state license. Check the state’s online hospital administrative code. Look for any breaches in standards of care and transfer agreements. Since they were unable/unwilling to meet your father’s need for hydration and nutrition, they had a regulatory and ethical duty to transfer him to a healthcare facility that would; IN A TIMELY MANNER.

Having spent years in healthcare, and the last 15 in administration, nothing gets the executives’ attention like a complaint with an investigation by a regulatory body.

I do hope the hospital will explain exactly why they delivered the care the way they did; what, if anything they will do differently going forward; offer you a sincere apology if there were any breaches in care or communication; and any ask you what they can do to ease this loss and your pain.

I am sincerely sorry for your loss. I hope any actions taken by you will improve this hospital’s care delivery for future patients with a similar condition and improve their communication with family members. Also, that your actions will help bring you closure and peace.

Again, my sincere condolences.

 

[firemediceric]

Similar Experience

I had a similar experience of dealing with a callous medical professional who felt her credentials imbued upon her decision making powers she did not have. Attorney got involved. Hospital realized the error of their ways. Attached to this (I hope) is the redacted correspondence if you care to read it.

In short, Dr. initiated a Do Not Resuscitate order without my consent for a man of who I am appointed the guardian.

 

[youbet]

While the wallet incident is unfortunate, it is likely a mute point, and not worth pursuing (no proof, no evidence, no likelihood of receiving 'justice'). Hospitals always tell patients not to keep valuables in their rooms/with them.

+1

And what would "justice" be? What remedy would be pursued regarding a deceased person's missing wallet which went astray during a hospital stay? Terminate all the staff (from orderlies to nurses to technicians to clerical folks) on duty at the time since they might have been involved in the conspiracy to steal the wallet? It just makes no sense making a huge deal out of it.

I think hospitals have their hands full regarding the security of personal property when a person arrives alone without an advocate of some sort.

 

[youbet]

Since they were unable/unwilling to meet your father’s need for hydration and nutrition, they had a regulatory and ethical duty to transfer him to a healthcare facility that would; IN A TIMELY MANNER.

.

I think they were able to meet OP's father's needs for hydration and nutrition via a feeding tube (called for by the tests they ran) but OP's father rejected that route.

I wonder what the course of acheiving retribution would be if the hospital had fed OP's father orally, despite the outcome of the swallow test, and eventual fatal consequences resulted. Would that have called for a law suit for malpractice because the hospital did not follow the dictates of their own testing?

This case is a bit more complicated than many are giving it credit for IMHO.

 

[youbet]

I had a similar experience of dealing with a callous medical professional who felt her credentials imbued upon her decision making powers she did not have. Attorney got involved. Hospital realized the error of their ways. Attached to this (I hope) is the redacted correspondence if you care to read it.

In short, Dr. initiated a Do Not Resuscitate order without my consent for a man of who I am appointed the guardian.

Your situation seems to be the opposite of what many here are calling for: the elimination of heroic efforts to keep someone alive. In your case, the doc wanted to add the DNR order. Others are pointing out the doc not wanting to "let the patient go" even if relatives are requesting it.

I wonder how we get both sides of this equation handled, especially in cases where the patient does not have appropriate legal directives in place at the time of hospital admission?

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I had a similar experience of dealing with a callous medical professional who felt her credentials imbued upon her decision making powers she did not have. Attorney got involved. Hospital realized the error of their ways. Attached to this (I hope) is the redacted correspondence if you care to read it.

In short, Dr. initiated a Do Not Resuscitate order without my consent for a man of who I am appointed the guardian.

WOW. I hope that doctor loses her job, if not her medical license! Has your state agency on aging been contacted? They might want to review whether this doctor has fraudulently recorded any other end-of-life documents or ignored patient or proxy consent for any other elderly patients.

 

[firemediceric]

WOW. I hope that doctor loses her job, if not her medical license! Has your state agency on aging been contacted? They might want to review whether this doctor has fraudulently recorded any other end-of-life documents or ignored patient or proxy consent for any other elderly patients.

System is so overwhelmed this wouldn't even be a blip on the radar. As an example, it took repeated egregious disregard of state statute with regard to DNR orders and a family fighting back before the guardian in these links was called to task. Plenty other news stories about this which unfortunately barely scratches the surface. Some of her cases have now been assigned to me.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...0190726-zfr4mjmbt5dd5fnj3xujbsdphe-story.html

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...0191016-azjpik477bclxbwwmqq5jpm4kq-story.html

 

[2retireearly]

I'm so sorry for you and your family. Each case is different. My parents had living wills, and each stipulated no artificial means of resuscitation. So when my mom, at 90, had a severe stroke, and basically never came to...right then...oddly, and horribly we prayed she would fail the swallow test. She did. That meant Hospice. That meant, no food..no water...she lasted 6 days. If you read about that, 'they' say it is humane. The body shuts down....it was really legal euthanasia. It was a blessing in her case....she may have suffered...I pray not...but she was allowed to die...vs live for years in a nursing home with a feeding tube.
Your case is different...it would be horrible to have your dad want to eat and drink and they kept it from him. I'm sorry

 

[Sittingduck]

I'm so sorry for you and your family. Each case is different. My parents had living wills, and each stipulated no artificial means of resuscitation. So when my mom, at 90, had a severe stroke, and basically never came to...right then...oddly, and horribly we prayed she would fail the swallow test. She did. That meant Hospice. That meant, no food..no water...she lasted 6 days. If you read about that, 'they' say it is humane. The body shuts down....it was really legal euthanasia. It was a blessing in her case....she may have suffered...I pray not...but she was allowed to die...vs live for years in a nursing home with a feeding tube.
Your case is different...it would be horrible to have your dad want to eat and drink and they kept it from him. I'm sorry

Sorry about your mom. We would undoutedly have faced this with dad eventually. I believe his already weak heart gave out from their withholding from him and stopping his IV for awhile.
I am glad he went quickly and did not endure weeks or months of hospice. But he was lucid and not being listened to. The thought of loosing control of what happens to you is the horrible aspect of this.

 

[Alexi]

So sorry about your father may he rest in peace.

As for me, I avoid doctors and hospitals like the plague.

 

[travelover]

..............As for me, I avoid doctors and hospitals like the plague.

Excellent plan. Like Woody says, I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens.

 

[jldavid47]

I, and my brother, became very angry at the [Emerson, Concord, MA] hospital because they tried to keep our father alive when it was [past] time for him to die.
They did intravenous and oxygen. They would not give him enough morphine.
He was 95.5 years old and his gag reflex had failed. He was not going to get better and go home.
It was not until we got the hospice crew in control that it ended. Quickly. 30 minutes.
Angry. You bet.

Well, you know, if they had let him die earlier it would have cost them revenue. Too cynical? I don't think so.

 

[jldavid47]

So sorry about your father may he rest in peace.

As for me, I avoid doctors and hospitals like the plague.

I tell people that part of my long-term health plan is to avoid the medical industry as much as possible. I get a lot of puzzled looks lol.

 

[jldavid47]

Let me guess. Was this Edwards Hospital in Naperville?