another gloomy retirement article

[Blue Collar Guy]

My mother worked till was 73 in a hot school kitchen, her coworkers were all widows, and everyone of them were 1st or 2nd generation Americans. None of them came from money, and education was not stressed for that particular group. As far as I know, none of them felt sorry for themselves that they were scrubbing tables as elderly old ladies. I could be wrong but I believe they were all stay at home mothers, whose husbands died at early ages. Some were motivated by financial needs to go to work and others were so lonely at home alone they needed some common social interaction. They all knew how to cook and clean, that was a source of pride with them. I forced my mom to quit when I visited her one day at school, I was early and I waltzed into the kitchen. They were all white haired ladies that were all beat red from the immense heat, and sweating like they were in a sauna.

Im sure if a photographer and a magazine writer would have seen this picture, they would have written a tear jerking story. "70 year old grandma's slaving away at kitchen".

 

[Senator]

Suffering always makes for good copy.

100% true. Click bait. And it doesn't matter if it's retirement, taxes, social security or hurricanes.

 

[Rianne]

My mom was upset when she was forced to quit working at 85. She had neuropathy in her feet. She owned a restaurant and loved working with people and "serving" them food and drinks (alcohol of course). She felt every day was a party. She was for the most part her own boss. The restaurant business requires long hours and good genes and she cherished both until she couldn't. Important point, it was her choice. She passed at 93.

I'm nothing like my mother. I'm happy to be FIRE. It is scary to think one major illness could ruin everything...so I told my husband to take me to the veterinarian, who is a friend of ours, and have him put me down. I'd rather go quickly after a happy life than fizzle away a sick and depressing person. And I would not want my DH to drain our accounts and make his life miserable because I was sick. I believe, live life to the fullest until it's over.

 

[Nemo2]

I'd rather go quickly after a happy life than fizzle away a sick and depressing person..

+1

I've probably posted this before, but I told DW if I have a heart attack, or somesuch, and am dead before I hit the floor, to give me a round of applause.

 

[NW-Bound]

My mother worked till was 73 in a hot school kitchen, her coworkers were all widows, and everyone of them were 1st or 2nd generation Americans. None of them came from money, and education was not stressed for that particular group. As far as I know, none of them felt sorry for themselves that they were scrubbing tables as elderly old ladies. I could be wrong but I believe they were all stay at home mothers, whose husbands died at early ages. Some were motivated by financial needs to go to work and others were so lonely at home alone they needed some common social interaction. They all knew how to cook and clean, that was a source of pride with them. I forced my mom to quit when I visited her one day at school, I was early and I waltzed into the kitchen. They were all white haired ladies that were all beat red from the immense heat, and sweating like they were in a sauna.

Im sure if a photographer and a magazine writer would have seen this picture, they would have written a tear jerking story. "70 year old grandma's slaving away at kitchen".

My mom was upset when she was forced to quit working at 85. She had neuropathy in her feet. She owned a restaurant and loved working with people and "serving" them food and drinks (alcohol of course). She felt every day was a party. She was for the most part her own boss. The restaurant business requires long hours and good genes and she cherished both until she couldn't. Important point, it was her choice. She passed at 93...

Makes me recall watching a TV piece about a restaurant in New Orleans called "Dooky Chase". The woman who owned it, Leah Chase, died in 2016 at the age of 93. Both George W. Bush and Obama ate at this restaurant, as did numerous other VIPs and personalities.

I will be sure to go there the next time I visit N.O.

 

[kcowan]

I was featured in a successful evolution article after being given a golden handshake by megacorp. Hey I was ready for another ten years and then done. I think numeracy and DBP are keys to successful retirement. The first is paramount and the second is a bonus.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

“Forget the government. It’s got to be ‘We the People,’ ” he said. “We’re on our own. You have to fend for yourself.” (Quote from the woman profiled in the article)

I think this is true in the US and it should be taught in schools (along with strategies for managing money) so that people don't wait until it's too late to learn this lesson.

-BB

 

[bclover]

Read some of the online comments. Very telling.

lol, Never read on line comments, in fact a few sites have begun to limit the ability. I always wonder if folks would say what they submit if the person was standing in front of them.

So I live in Philly which is the worst city in the country for poverty. I volunteer with them. One of the funniest comments (to me) is "well they are living beyond their means, look at their cars.

Not one of my clients own a care. Camden NJ's is a city where 80% of the residents are on some type of financial assistance and 42% live below the poverty level, lol Living above their means is definitely not from car ownership.

anyhoo, I really think these articles are more of a "scared" straight type of thing. I can understand older generations having difficulties though. I was born in an age of pensions and affordable housing, both are quickly becoming a thing of the past. WE never had to think about 401k's and saving because hell, there were no such things as 401k's.


The apartment I grew up in, in Manhattan was a pre world war II brownstone. I think my dad used his VA benefits after his military service and paid 17000 bucks for it. grew up with 8 people in that house. My dad died at 87 we sold it for over a million bucks.

So I do have empathy for those who struggle, lol most (that Ive seen) are not there because they were living la vida loca.

My concern is how do we correct this because like it or not millions of seniors are in this situation and they are not going away.

 

[JoeWras]

My concern is how do we correct this because like it or not millions of seniors are in this situation and they are not going away.

If there was no planning, then they are going to have to live within the safety net. That means social security and other existing programs.

My city specifically has multiple senior only housing developments, heavily subsidized. It is very basic living, but it isn't the street.

There will be no extra money for other stuff like a fancy car or vacations.

BIL1 I mentioned above lives like this. His mistake was all that under the table money (he told us how clever he was back then) has reduced his social security payout. Oh well. We feared he'd be on SSI, but thankfully had enough credits.

 

[rayinpenn]

And therein lies much of what translates into net worth. When you are smarter, life is easier. I won't go into detail of this forum, or myself, but it just makes sense.

While at first blush it would be easy to pat oneself on the back and think "well Im just smarter then those that have not saved for retirement." Perhaps but, there are plenty of smart people who are broke.

Luck....
Some years ago: My lunch buddy and colleague -has been with megacorp for 30 plus years. He's got a cool million of company stock. He's a second level officer and with good reason will never be more then that. We are riding in the elevator and a guy with white hair enters and greets my friend. They exchange pleasantries and the Gent exits at the next floor. My friend whispers to me "he works in the mail room, he's got 40 years in, he has 8,000 shares." The math tells me that's 2 million.

Discipline....
My SIL's gentleman friend elderly mom's brother passed and asked if he would help close the estate. His mom and aunt agreed to share the estate with him for his trouble. His uncle had been a life long bachelor who had a little house on road island and apparently lived a simple disciplined LBYM life. For years the uncle had been an elevator operator. When the dust settled the estate was valued over $450,000.

Fear...
Our lack of money growing up meant we lived waiting for the next shoe to drop. Car, heating oil, dentist it was always a struggle. I was determined to change that; I wanted to be in charge of my destiny.
Somewhere, somehow it got into my head education was the answer.
Then when I was gainfully employed I realized it isn't what you make it is what you manage to hold onto. We saved first.

The right venue...
I can't help but think a person living and working in say West Virginia or rural Maine will face an uphill battle to put together a six zero retirement fund. Sure the cost of housing is cheap but the salaries are low. When I joined megacorp in manhattan it was during "the golden years of compensation". There was profit sharing, a pension and at one point between what I saved and what I received from megacorp I was putting away 28% of my salary.

Smart doesn't mean smart with everything...

 

[Bigdawg]

I was born in an age of pensions and affordable housing, both are quickly becoming a thing of the past. WE never had to think about 401k's and saving because hell, there were no such things as 401k's.

The pension era topped out in the early 80's at maybe 50% of the population receiving some type of DB pension. That is also when 401K's began. These problems existed in the 60's, 70's and 80's when we didn't have the mutiple sources of media, social media, blogs, etc... to bring it to light. Heck, I know people who do have DBP (retired military) who are struggling becasue they are just not smart with money. You could literally give every person in the USA a COLA DBP and some people wold find away to be broke.

 

[W2R]

lol, Never read on line comments, in fact a few sites have begun to limit the ability. I always wonder if folks would say what they submit if the person was standing in front of them.

But that's what I love about online comments. People are more likely to tell you what they really, honestly think, than they would if standing right in front of you with the constraints of politeness and decorum holding them back.

For me it is very educational to read comments, even those shocking ones that I strongly disagree with. I never thought people were thinking that way, back in the pre-intenet days. I just assumed that they all agreed with me, but now I know that is not the case.

 

[Nemo2]

But that's what I love about online comments. People are more likely to tell you what they really, honestly think, than they would if standing right in front of you with the constraints of politeness and decorum holding them back.

For me it is very educational to read comments, even those shocking ones that I strongly disagree with. I never thought people were thinking that way, back in the pre-intenet days. I just assumed that they all agreed with me, but now I know that is not the case.

I often skim through, or even bypass, many articles, (since even the Joe Friday "Just the facts, ma'am" news releases are invariably subject to one bias or another), and go straight to the comments.

Among other things, comments indicate who's fallen for what and how far, and how many people (among the respondents) are gullible or totally paranoid.

 

[travelover]

But that's what I love about online comments. People are more likely to tell you what they really, honestly think, than they would if standing right in front of you with the constraints of politeness and decorum holding them back.

For me it is very educational to read comments, even those shocking ones that I strongly disagree with. I never thought people were thinking that way, back in the pre-intenet days. I just assumed that they all agreed with me, but now I know that is not the case.

I think this is a good point and it also makes you realize how thin a veneer of civility actually covers us. If there was a call for extreme violence - concentration camps, ethnic cleansing - the worst kind of abuses, you could get all the volunteers you needed to carry it out from the general population.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

Makes me recall watching a TV piece about a restaurant in New Orleans called "Dooky Chase". The woman who owned it, Leah Chase, died in 2016 at the age of 93. Both George W. Bush and Obama ate at this restaurant, as did numerous other VIPs and personalities.

I will be sure to go there the next time I visit N.O.

Thank you , best 7 minutes I spent on YouTube in a long while, "food brings you together, you don't serve food, you serve love." Wow , my mom used to say that. This is why some of them are referred to as the Greatest Generation, they deserve that title.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I think this is a good point and it also makes you realize how thin a veneer of civility actually covers us. If there was a call for extreme violence - concentration camps, ethnic cleansing - the worst kind of abuses, you could get all the volunteers you needed to carry it out from the general population.

Offering a pension or a matching 401k would get more volunteers.

 

[travelover]

Offering a pension or a matching 401k would get more volunteers.

I don't think those would be necessary, based on the comments I've read.

 

[brett]

One of the largest challenges lurking out there with senior poverty is the fact that there is a growing wealth disparity.

A portion of the middle class is disappearing because of the changes in our economy. It will prevent even those who are predisposed to saving for retirement to do so in any meaningful way. It is especially hard on those in their late 40's/early 50's. These are often the higher savings years. Hard to do this when you have lost a well paying manufacturing job and can only get a replacement that pays half of your former wage plus fewer, if any, benefits. This does not even take into account the impact on the sandwich generation that is in the middle oftentimes involved financially and otherwise of their parents and their children.

I am retired now, out of the workforce. I see huge changes out there in terms of the jobs and the training necessary to get and keep them. It is a very different ball game. Easy for me to say I made it through successfully, as did others, however the work/job environment is very different now.

 

[haha]

+1
Just read an article the other day about how a high school wants to change their school mascot name from "The Millionaires" because it has a negative connotation and is 'offensive'. I grew up admiring millionaires.

The Fighting Millionaires!

"HaHa, HaHa, he's our man, if he can't do it, nobody can!"

High school autumn nights, we should have
preserved highlight videos of these!

Ha

 

[jazz4cash]

The pension era topped out in the early 80's at maybe 50% of the population receiving some type of DB pension. That is also when 401K's began. These problems existed in the 60's, 70's and 80's when we didn't have the mutiple sources of media, social media, blogs, etc... to bring it to light. Heck, I know people who do have DBP (retired military) who are struggling becasue they are just not smart with money. You could literally give every person in the USA a COLA DBP and some people wold find away to be broke.

I think this is a good point as I have worked with many folks that have DB pensions that are less than their SS benefit and don't pay out before 65 w/o severe penalty. Most of these folks were switched out of DB plans by their employer and may or may not be better off. They generally will not figure out how to make the most of what they have. Many have never figured out how to live within their means and the idea of living on less than 100% of their income seems impossible.

 

[haha]

If there was no planning, then they are going to have to live within the safety net. That means social security and other existing programs.

My city specifically has multiple senior only housing developments, heavily subsidized. It is very basic living, but it isn't the street.

People just love to bitch. There is one of these a couple blocks from my building. View of the Bay, AC, lots of company, no smoking allowed, no chance to get lonesome. I happen to know that living there is way better in some ways and easier than almost any suburban retirement. Transportation is at the door, a concierge will receive your packages. Trader Joe a few blocks. One can even have pets with some rules. You do have to be ok with the knowledge that there are other humans in the world, because there are some of them right down the hall.

My heavens, a holy hell on earth!

Ha

 

[exnavynuke]

The pension era topped out in the early 80's at maybe 50% of the population receiving some type of DB pension. That is also when 401K's began. These problems existed in the 60's, 70's and 80's when we didn't have the mutiple sources of media, social media, blogs, etc... to bring it to light. Heck, I know people who do have DBP (retired military) who are struggling becasue they are just not smart with money. You could literally give every person in the USA a COLA DBP and some people wold find away to be broke.

This was the point I was coming to make.

In all these articles you always see a slant that implies that just about everyone used to get a pension. 1980 had the highest percentage of workers covered by a pension plan at 46%. In 1940 it was only 15%. Never in the history of this country have "most" workers been covered by a pension. So, even in the heyday of pension plans, most people still were responsible for their own retirement planning.

 

[FIREd]

People just love to bitch. There is one of these a couple blocks from my building. View of the Bay, AC, lots of company, no smoking allowed, no chance to get lonesome. I happen to know that living there is way better in some ways and easier than almost any suburban retirement. Transportation is at the door, a concierge will receive your packages. Trader Joe a few blocks. One can even have pets with some rules. You do have to be ok with the knowledge that there are other humans in the world, because there are some of them right down the hall.

My heavens, a holy hell on earth!

Ha

Sounds like my $$$ apartment in San Francisco...

 

[growing_older]

I think this is a good point as I have worked with many folks that have DB pensions that are less than their SS benefit and don't pay out before 65 w/o severe penalty

In all these articles you always see a slant that implies that just about everyone used to get a pension.

There have been a couple times in my life that I was covered by a DB pension. In every case, the company and the pension plan ceased to exist before I was vested in any benefit. Even the percent coverage at the height of pension plans overstate how many people actually received meaningful pension benefits.

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

It's hard to feel sorry for people who demonstrate a lifelong pattern of poor financial decisions.

I don't care that their standard of living is below what it was when the worked. Is this abnormal?

My mother in law was one of these people who always lived for today, never preparing for retirement. When it happened, she lived on SS, a very part time minimum wage job and about 80k in a retirement account. She actually had a pretty nice standard of living in The Villages, FL before she passed away.