Any advice on dealing with bullying in a school?

[Bestwifeever]

Your goal is to make DD's life better. I would personally just bite the bullet and move her to another school asap at whatever cost I could afford to get her into a normal environment. You probably will not change the environment at this one or it would have already happened, and in the meantime she is feeling pretty bad about herself and might for a long time, considering it's bad enough that it needs her parents at the school every day (so it is not garden-variety name calling, etc.).

I have seen this solution with other kids who are now adults and they are incredibly grateful to their parents for it. It made all the difference for them.

Yeah, you shouldn't have to do this, but consider it. Have a lawyer send the tuition bills to the school board.

 

[Senator]

In most states kids under 10 are not criminally liable even if they kill someone.

There is your answer!

 

[mystang52]

Brewer - Although you seem reluctant to do so, I suggest you heed the other recommendations to call the bullies' parents. A reasonable icebreaker is simply to tell them they seem to be bullying your daughter, and you request they direct their children to simply not speak to or have anything to do with your daughter.
This approach may help prevent those parents from getting defensive or argumentative. And, most likely once they have hung up the phone they will speak more forcefully to their kids. If this approach does not yield the desired result, you now have more ammunition - to wit, you can cite that you called the parents and nothing changed - in the event the next step involves legal action.

 

[vince]

I'm in the camp of letting your child resolve her own problems with bullying. That is within limits. If her physical safety is in danger that's a different story. You should though, give her all the tools and support to do it.
My DD and SIL send my four year old GS to self defense classes. GD will also get them (as soon as she can pronounce it). Taekwondo can give your DD2 (and DD1 for that matter) more self confidence as well as the ability to defend herself the rest of her life.
There are always going to be bullies in this world, if not worse, and she is going to have to have the mental and physical abilities to deal with the little bastards all her life, whether you're there or not. Reading about the degenerate behavior of some college males should stress this point.
IMHO bullies usually come from families of bullies. It's a learned behavior. So calling the parents will probably do no good. And may compound the problem. Having DD2 intervene may cause the older brother or sister of the little bastards to do the same.
Nothing drives home the point to a bully, of acting civilized, more than getting their ass kicked by a little girl.

 

[W2R]

I'm in the camp of letting your child resolve her own problems with bullying. [....] There are always going to be bullies in this world, if not worse, and she is going to have to have the mental and physical abilities to deal with the little bastards all her life, whether you're there or not.

I tend to agree, even though like many/most school aged kids I was bullied and my heart breaks for kids who are.

Bullying doesn't end with elementary school. Quite a few members have described bullies in the workplace (in various other threads), although they may not choose to use that word to describe them. Unfortunately, dealing with bullies on her own can be regarded as a form of life skills training for her.

The parent do need to intervene if there is a risk of serious physical or psychological injury, but otherwise (hard as it may be) if the bullies and bullied are the same age then sometimes it is best to be supportive and encouraging but non-meddling. When you step in, in cases like this, sometimes that sends the unintended message of "You are incapable; unlike the other kids, you can't adequately handle this on your own at all so mommy/daddy will do it for you". That message can cause more damage than the bullying.

I would rather live in a world in which bullying never happened at *any* age or stage in life. But, like World Peace, this transformation in the human condition is unlikely to occur in our lifetimes.

 

[Mulligan]

Brewer - Although you seem reluctant to do so, I suggest you heed the other recommendations to call the bullies' parents. A reasonable icebreaker is simply to tell them they seem to be bullying your daughter, and you request they direct their children to simply not speak to or have anything to do with your daughter.
This approach may help prevent those parents from getting defensive or argumentative. And, most likely once they have hung up the phone they will speak more forcefully to their kids. If this approach does not yield the desired result, you now have more ammunition - to wit, you can cite that you called the parents and nothing changed - in the event the next step involves legal action.

In a perfect world that would be a reasonable solution, but many times those parents are worse than the bullying kids. An ex school official here. With a bit of documentation that Brewer seems to have done already, a principal with any skills at all or concern should cause an elementary bully kid to break. They turn on each other so fast and also love to tattle. It shouldn't be going on this long.
HS bullying much harder to catch. One time had 2 girls come into office brought in from a hallway fight. One a bit of a historical trouble maker came in cussing and screaming obviously upset over fight. The other calm and respectful and never in trouble explained how she was attacked for no reason. School policy, which I hated, treats both combatants equally though I tried when I could to nail the initiator. Obviously leaning a certain way with kids around it keeping quiet, a student told me another kid had recorded it on her phone. Since doing this at school at the time was against school policy I assured student I would not discipline her for it if she showed me. Guess what, the "good girl" lied and the cussing mad "bad student" was right. You have to be vigilant and not assume with kids.


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[vince]

WR2, comments like yours are the reason I spend most of the time just listening...Well said.

 

[uofmbish]

Just keep in mind that unless a lot has changed in the 20 years since I was in elementary school, those boys probably like your DD and don't know how to show it, so one of those little bastards will likely be her first date in a few years

If the abuse isn't to the point of potentially causing long term physical/emotional damage to your DD, I'd agree with others and use it as an opportunity to teach her how to deal with bullies.

I found that the best weapon against bullying was to not give them any sense of achievement. I realized that kids that had strong reactions to the bullying seemed to be the primary targets. I made the choice to suck up my pride and just go along with the bullying. If they made a joke at my expense, I'd just laugh it off. It apparently isn't fun to pick on kids that don't seem to be bothered by it. I assume it removes the sense of power that they derive from picking on someone they deem to be below them in the food chain.

As WR2 mentions, a solution like that has the added benefit that DD can walk away knowing that she faced a problem and found a way to handle it herself.

It also taught me a life long lesson about how understanding other's motivations can allow you to manipulate situations to get the results that you want. It has served me well in relationships and my career.

 

[Brat]

My GS is a 1st grader in a school with involved mothers. When he was in kindergarten a couple mothers observed what could have been bullying behavior by some of the kids. The moms put their heads together and helped the children to see that wasn't a way to make friends. My GS, who could well have been in the mix, wanted to have a lot of friends so he changed the way he interacted with his peers. Now he is a leader in his classroom and is participating in TAG classes.

Kids need to be taught effective social skills.

 

[Moemg]

I agree that a lot has changed in bullying since I was young . Now the bullies can continue the torments online . I would do whatever I had to to stop it . Your DD is still really young if she was older I would agree with her handling it but not at her age .

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I am having a hard time understanding people suggesting filing a restraining order before ever even inviting the parents over for coffee and trying to reach a peaceful solution. The parents may be helpful or not, but if they are helpful and concerned that might solve the problem right then and there without making enemies or incurring legal fees. There may also be another side to the situation to hear about as well.

 

[haha]

I agree that a lot has changed in bullying since I was young . Now the bullies can continue the torments online . I would do whatever I had to to stop it . Your DD is still really young if she was older I would agree with her handling it but not at her age .

Agree. She would feel that she is being abandoned.

I was never bullied, though I was never larger or tougher than most other boys. What I did have was a resolve to go after anyone who was bothering me, with anything I could come up with. I was great at self justification, OK, this pr*** harassed me or embarrassed me, so now how can I make him suffer considerably more? If he was older or from a rougher neighborhood, I allied myself with troops.

Speaking of quality responses to bullying (not by little girls) you guys have to go see The Drop. If you are like I am a fan of revenge movies, you'll love this one which is actually a higher class movie than the old time Charles Bronson ones.

Ha

 

[Mulligan]

I agree that a lot has changed in bullying since I was young . Now the bullies can continue the torments online . I would do whatever I had to to stop it . Your DD is still really young if she was older I would agree with her handling it but not at her age .

Online and through phones is where it is at now at the HS. Schools have done a decent job of draining the unruly testosterone from boys. Many probably wouldn't even know what you mean by "trash can or locker stuffing" along with "atomic wedgies". Though a lot of that was more along the lines of juvenile horseplay than bullying. Now the girls on the other hand.....they can be down right cruel!


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[Walt34]

Now the girls on the other hand.....they can be down right cruel!

Yes indeed. I remember watching a "girl fight" after school and was surprised at the blood lust when those two went at each other. When guys fight, it's over when it's clear who won and who lost. Those two girls wanted to kill each other.

 

[Mulligan]

Yes indeed. I remember watching a "girl fight" after school and was surprised at the blood lust when those two went at each other. When guys fight, it's over when it's clear who won and who lost. Those two girls wanted to kill each other.

That is true with the guys. I can't tell you how many problems were eliminated back in the day with the boys by just telling them to wait until after school and take it to the field across the street. They would do it, and then it was over. Of course that was a rural attitude and most parents when called would say just let them get it over with.


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[Katsmeow]

I'm in the camp of letting your child resolve her own problems with bullying. That is within limits. If her physical safety is in danger that's a different story. You should though, give her all the tools and support to do it.

I understand the argument but -- particularly with small children -- I don't think they are equipped to handle it. And just leaving it to them -- even with support -- can be seen as abandonment and the parent not taking the issue seriously. Sure, if the child can easily and quickly resolve it herself and wants to, then that is fine.

But, persistent bullying over time is often something that a young child can't resolve. And, in some instances, even an older child or adolescent can't resolve. I have seen situations where the situation at a school is so toxic that the best thing for the child is to simply change school (just like some workplaces can be so bad that no amount of trying to fix it helps and the best solution is to move on).

I wanted my children to know that I would support them and would myself help them to get a just result. In one instance, things were bad enough (bullying was an issue but wasn't the only issue) that I pulled my 10 year old out of school, homeschooled him for the rest of the year and then put him in a private school the next year. I've never felt sorry that I did it. And, he at least knew that I was there for him and would do everything in my power to help him. It was way beyond something that he could handle on his own.

 

[brewer12345]

Yes indeed. I remember watching a "girl fight" after school and was surprised at the blood lust when those two went at each other. When guys fight, it's over when it's clear who won and who lost. Those two girls wanted to kill each other.

Then get me a pink tutu. Whenever I fought, I was not looking to settle an argument or prove who was better. Consequently, after I settled things in the 3rd grade I was rarely physically pushed around. It wasn't that I was especially big or strong, it was that everyone knew I would bite, pull out handfulls of hair, reach for the nads and yank, etc.

 

[brewer12345]

We have no intention of letting DD2 go it alone. This is beyond her ability to resolve. I am continuing to tighten the screws on the dean, and if this does not stop entirely pretty soon I will be having a sit down with the principal. Then I can contemplate a variety of other options. I am starting to like the idea of showing up to pick up the kids at the end of the school day wearing a sandwich board that says "<school name> Elementary has a problem with bullying that administration refuses to fix."

We are within spitting distance of Columbine high school. Everyone knows where this can lead and there are anti-bullying programs at all the local schools. Look how great that works...

 

[robnplunder]

30 years ago, that would have worked. Today the kid who beat the bully's ass would get expelled and possibly a criminal charge. The world has changed.

+1.

I was a small kid but took care of my bullies with varying degree of physical force to their body . That worked 40 years ago when times were a bit simpler. A few decades later when my son reported being bullied, I told him to confront the bully (I think my wording was more like "do some physical damage to the motherless kid" but I can't be so sure now). My son got really serious and "told" me that's not the right way to address the situation. I don't recall how it was addressed but I was ready to jump in if things got worse.

 

[Mulligan]

We have no intention of letting DD2 go it alone. This is beyond her ability to resolve. I am continuing to tighten the screws on the dean, and if this does not stop entirely pretty soon I will be having a sit down with the principal. Then I can contemplate a variety of other options. I am starting to like the idea of showing up to pick up the kids at the end of the school day wearing a sandwich board that says "<school name> Elementary has a problem with bullying that administration refuses to fix."

We are within spitting distance of Columbine high school. Everyone knows where this can lead and there are anti-bullying programs at all the local schools. Look how great that works...

The squeaky wheel gets the grease... Is this Dean a wimp or just disinterested? Eliminating bullying at HS level is a lot harder to deal with and catch but not at the elementary level if the Dean has a sack (gender neutral intent). It must be a little too much fun to go to the office there for the kids. Many states have implemented "anti bullying" laws. So even if as some people here mentioned the best way is for the kid to deal with it, that cannot be a legitimate response from the school.
Although back in the good old days, I had a legitimate bullying concern I could not crack. The 8th grader would not break, and absolutely no corroboration from anyone. Concerned parent came in and I told her to tell him to pop him and that would be the end of the bullying. She was concerned about it being on his permanent record. After I assured her discipline is never on a permanent record and no college is ever going to ask for an 8th grade discipline record so she went home and gave him the blessing. After he returned from his 3 day vacation, the kid never bothered him again.


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[EastWest Gal]

You may want to consider a martial arts class where they also teach self defense. DS who is very small, took karate at the Y for several years. The instructor taught emotional self control and channeling energy, as well as self defense. Built confidence too.

One thing he taught was that the best defense is not to be there. It pays also to have witnesses on your side.

He was bullied in class in 6th grade and he just walked out and sat in the auditorium until class was over. The teacher, who was about 6'3" and built like a bull, called us to tell us what happened. He was quite impressed with DS's quick thinking, and dealt with the 8th grade boys with the usual school type punishments-detentions and marks off their grade (it was band so should have been an easy A). Never happened again, in or out of class.

Bullying at the workplace has affected my career and has been part of the reason I worked very hard to RE. Being at a different hospital to help our group out of a bad situation gets me short term good pay and benefits. And no bullying!

Competent people (kids and adults) are frequent targets of bullies. And be careful of "letting them work it out themselves" with kids. Kids do commit suicide and even homicide sometimes as a result of bullying. It 's happened in our community more than once.

Good luck with your situation with DD2.




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[rodi]

Now the girls on the other hand.....they can be down right cruel!


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There's a Seinfeld episode where Jerry and George are discussing trying to beat a former bully at a race. Elaine is very interested in the fact that they were bullied... it comes out that she was a bully - but not physical. She said girls just teased the target "till they developed an eating disorder".

Girls are definitely meaner when they are the bullies.

 

[Mulligan]

There's a Seinfeld episode where Jerry and George are discussing trying to beat a former bully at a race. Elaine is very interested in the fact that they were bullied... it comes out that she was a bully - but not physical. She said girls just teased the target "till they developed an eating disorder".



Girls are definitely meaner when they are the bullies.

The first week on the job at a new school word got back to us a girl wanted "kick another girls a$$". So we called her out of class to address the issue. The sheer honesty floored me.... She said yes she does and "she has it coming to her because she f@@ked my boyfriend on the first night she saw him and she is a who&e. I'm not a who&e because I waited a week until we did it." Way too much info there, but sometimes they just spill it out totally unedited... 90% of the girl bullying issues root source was over a boy.


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[LOL!]

Some interesting reading in this thread. I was bullied in junior high and took to walking a different way home to avoid confrontation. I never told my parents or other adults. Then one day, the bullies caught me. I did not fight back and was not really hurt. Because I was such a wimp and did not fight back, I was never ever bothered again. Basically, it turned out that it was really no fun to bully me.

I guess i learned a lesson there and have not been intimidated by anyone since. I'm even trying to think of any other situation where as a kid or an adult I can say that I was builied. Right now, I can't think of any other instance, but maybe I am too stupid to understand if folks are trying to bully me?

 

[tmm99]

I tend to agree with Vince an W2R but I think it depends on how fragile the recipient of bullying is.

I was bullied from the 4th grade until the 6th grade (none of it was physical). It started right after my dad passed away. It was traumatic and my grades suffered greatly especially when I was in the 4th grade. I suffered from physical illnesses more too the first year. My family did nothing except to coach me as to what to say back to the girls in different situations. Strategy after the 4th grade was to ignore them all together and make friends with other rejects (mainly from other classes.) I was getting a hang of it by the 3rd year and by then there were a handful of girls who are more self aware and knew bullying wasn't cool and they tried to protect me. (It is hard to be those girls in those younger days - those girls are strong individuals with strong convictions). I remember mom asking me if I wanted to change school during these three years and my answer was no way. I wasn't going to have these bastards crush me. (And my thinking was it might follow me to the next school and then what?). I don't call myself a string person but maybe stubborn, and in addition I had enough backing on my side to try to convince myself that I was not at fault and these sorry asses had problems )which was very difficult to do because at that age you so want to be liked).

I am not minimizing the effect of bullying. I feel I am kind of scarred for life - when I see a bunch of women huddled together, there is no way I would go near them. I avoid any kind of parties that involve a bunch of women. I'd say they are up to no good in group settings. .




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