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Old 05-14-2019, 09:55 AM   #41
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China is NOT our friend folks. They don't sell us cheap goods because they want to be nice to us. They want to own us and from what I can see, they will with the debt we are accumulating. I want especially point out that this trade deficit isn't economically driven, it's politically driven by the Chinese government. If it were just simple economics; one business beating out another, that would be one thing, but it's not. This is about the Chinese government working at becoming more powerful and our current administration acknowledging and acting on that.
Maybe not what was intended here, but was it OK with us (USA) when we ran a trade surplus with the world from post WWII thru 1975, a period of great prosperity for the USA? It was “friendly” when the shoe was on the other foot?

Selling under cost to gain market share isn’t new, the Vanderbilt fortune began that way.

And the US subsidizes industries, many for years such as farming, oil, exports, etc. It’s OK when we do it but not for China? https://www.thebalance.com/governmen...rt-etc-3305788

China is not globally competitive due solely to government subsidies.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:56 AM   #42
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How you view it all depends on your tribal affiliation. It is a complex, multifaceted issue with multiple uncertainties. If you are onboard, you see all the positive aspects and doubt the negative ones. If you are not onboard, it is the opposite.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:58 AM   #43
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Why do reporters say Tarrifs will cost American consumers X amount, but when corporate taxes are decreased they don't say the tax cuts will save Americans X$?
Why?

Because there is plenty of evidence that the increased costs due to tariffs have been passed on to consumers.

And there's little to no evidence that corporate tax cuts results in lower retail costs.
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Any examples of Tariff's beginning to hit home?
Old 05-14-2019, 12:15 PM   #44
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Any examples of Tariff's beginning to hit home?

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Originally Posted by skipro33 View Post
Maybe not to economists, but there's a lot more involved. I'd say the fact that dumping of cheap goods, steel for example, has harmed our steel industry and that the first round of tariffs has started turning that around.

China is willing to sell under market, at a loss, in order to capture the market. After which, they'll set what ever prices they want and it would be a while before we regain our independence.

Solar for example; China sells panels for less than they cost to make in order to drive out US built solar panels. When the US company goes under, they drive their prices back up.

And let's not forget that China hacked into our federal government's computer system back about 4 years or so ago. Or that they continuously attempt hacks into our electrical grid. I worked for an electrical utility company. It is a daily battle to keep them off our grid.

Then there's their labor force; underpaid and underage in many cases. Buying Chinese made over American made promotes that.

China is NOT our friend folks. They don't sell us cheap goods because they want to be nice to us. They want to own us and from what I can see, they will with the debt we are accumulating. I want especially point out that this trade deficit isn't economically driven, it's politically driven by the Chinese government. If it were just simple economics; one business beating out another, that would be one thing, but it's not. This is about the Chinese government working at becoming more powerful and our current administration acknowledging and acting on that.
I choose to listen to the economists.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:25 PM   #45
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...
China is NOT our friend folks. They don't sell us cheap goods because they want to be nice to us. They want to own us and from what I can see, they will with the debt we are accumulating....
Brings back feeling of deja vu for me in the 80's at megacorp when there was this big departmental presentation held in an auditorium. The theme was Japan is killing us, eating our lunch. Theme was to buy American.
But yet at the same time so many folks, even today have the thirst for Japanese made cars. Bottom line for some, let others be patriotic but my family wants the best, reliable car.

Can't have things both ways. On one hand, China is the bad buys on the other, continue the thirst for inexpensive products.
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Old 05-14-2019, 06:00 PM   #46
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^^^ and at the same time the big 3 were telling us it was our patriotic duty to support our neighbours and buy American they were sending the plant and jobs to Mexico.
Patriotism (jingoism) is the refuge of the scoundrel.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:20 AM   #47
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IIRC, the tariffs are going from 10% to 25% on some items...so it's not a 25% increase, more like 15%.
Anecdotes from the industry say the 10% is easy to work around but 25% means changes.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:25 AM   #48
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That's not what the soybean farmers are saying these days. The Chinese have already found other sources of soybeans and wheat. They may never need to purchase US soybeans again.
And Canadian canola products.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:30 AM   #49
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Sure thing that our farmers will be drastically affected by the tariffs, but for now they are being called " patriots" by our current administration.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:33 AM   #50
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My economy has been affected. Tariffs cost me $700 more on a flooring project. And that was before the latest round. So yes I've seen and felt an impact. Somehow I dont think i will feel any better if the govt gives that money to farmers.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:35 AM   #51
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There are at least three results...

The first is that the increased costs from tariffs will be passed on to consumers. These costs will be substantial.

The second is that some domestic manufacturers may review where they manufacture if tariffs make them less competitive in domestic and foreign markets. Mexico, Thailand, Cambodia, etc. There are already examples of this.

The third is that there will be increasingly large subsidies required, demanded, and provided in parts of the agriculture sector.
Then again, we might find that all this gets resolved over the next few weeks and in a few months we forget it ever was a concern.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:42 AM   #52
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Most people have done a good job keeping this non political but in many ways you can see who falls on what side of this issue
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:56 AM   #53
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My economy has been affected. Tariffs cost me $700 more on a flooring project. And that was before the latest round. So yes I've seen and felt an impact. Somehow I dont think i will feel any better if the govt gives that money to farmers.
I must be missing something.

I can't seem to figure out how tariffs imposed a few days ago have already hit the retail market on products that have likely been landed here a month or so ago.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:00 AM   #54
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I must be missing something.

I can't seem to figure out how tariffs imposed a few days ago have already hit the retail market on products that have likely been landed here a month or so ago.
I am guessing that some are noticing a tariff effect from fees imposed over the last year, or whatever period that covers all tariffs imposed.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:05 AM   #55
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https://www.idahopress.com/news/loca...895c29b2e.html

"Melanie Krause, founder of Cinder Wines in Garden City, is not sure where she is going to get glass for her wine bottles. The usual prices of Chinese bottles have jumped under a 10% retaliatory glass tariff, which has the entire wine industry turning to domestically sourced glass."
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:06 AM   #56
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Sure thing that our farmers will be drastically affected by the tariffs, but for now they are being called " patriots" by our current administration.
we are borrowing money from china to pay our farmers not to sell food to china

make sense?
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:11 AM   #57
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I must be missing something.

I can't seem to figure out how tariffs imposed a few days ago have already hit the retail market on products that have likely been landed here a month or so ago.
Your right, you are missing something. I bought the flooring last dec. Notice I said BEFORE the lastest round. I paid a 10% higher price than if I purchased pre tariff.

While 10% may not seem like much, it does slow down other projects I have in the pipeline. For me, I'll just ride it out and not buy much unless it's really needed.

Talking with local housing contractors they said theyre no longer eating extra costs.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:23 AM   #58
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we are borrowing money from china to pay our farmers not to sell food to china

make sense?
Is that China's next move? Stop buying our bonds?
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:23 AM   #59
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Planning to get contractor to do rehab on part of my home. Now with increase prices my contractor has to pay, then pass on the increased price tag to me, no thanks. No rehab until this tariff mess gets resolved.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:25 AM   #60
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Is that China's next move? Stop buying our bonds?
if they do rates could skyrocket
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