Any examples of Tariff's beginning to hit home?

[dvalley]

Products developed in China have improved exponentially in the last 15yrs, thanks to the American companies pushing higher QC on what they get made there. Now they're about on-par with many American products in a similar price range. Tools that would break and bend like noodles 15yrs ago, are about as good as anything else. Heck most of the electronics/computers including the iPhone/Macs are made in China and I don't know anyone that said iPhones are cheap Chinese junk.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I’ve seen build quality on cars over the years and refuse to buy American because of it.

Cars and a lot of other so called American made products. I say so called because my DeWalt saw broke and when I took it apart and looked inside the motor and plastic casings were all made in China or Thailand.

Does America really make anything anymore, from front to back? I think for the most part they just assemble, you would think they could do that well for cars.

I would not touch an American made car, mainly because they have very poor reputations and lose so much money driving off the lot. I did have a Jeep once, it looked great but was very unreliable and was not very efficient on fuel.

There are exceptions like some trucks, but I do not like trucks so it is moot.

 

[ziggy29]

Products developed in China have improved exponentially in the last 15yrs, thanks to the American countries pushing higher QC on what they get made there. Now they're about on-par with many American products in a similar price range. Tools that would break and bend like noodles 15yrs ago, are about as good as anything else. Heck most of the electronics/computers including the iPhone/Macs are made in China and I don't know anyone that said iPhones are cheap Chinese junk.

"Made in Japan" was something of a joke back in the 1960s. Two decades later they were known for quality. So yeah, as nations become manufacturing powers, quality usually comes along for the ride.

 

[pj.mask]

"Made in Japan" was something of a joke back in the 1960s. Two decades later they were known for quality. So yeah, as nations become manufacturing powers, quality usually comes along for the ride.

I agree but what comes first the chicken or the egg?

Did we advance because of MFG or was MFG just a logical step on that path? Did our capabilities as a country move us to more advanced but higher margin work? What do those left behind (not able to do advanced work or start their own business) do?

Take farming - used to be major labor requirements and now with a GPS tractors, etc. can be done with a lot less people per acre. But we still subsidize (mostly) a smaller group of high earner families and corporations. The remaining jobs frequently are immigrants to man the tractor ‘just in case’.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I agree but what comes first the chicken or the egg?

Did we advance because of MFG or was MFG just a logical step on that path? Did our capabilities as a country move us to more advanced but higher margin work?

In the 19th century, the GOP promoted high tariffs to protect this country's developing mfg economy from the technologically advanced competition in Britain. Tariffs were also the primary source of federal government revenue.

Take farming - used to be major labor requirements and now with a GPS tractors, etc. can be done with a lot less people per acre. But we still subsidize (mostly) a smaller group of high earner families and corporations. The remaining jobs frequently are immigrants to man the tractor ‘just in case’.

I was a surprised when another poster described some farmers as inefficient. Farmers are among the world's most productive workers. They're so efficient, in fact, that they've depressed the market for many of the commodities they produce. That's why they're subsidized -- government recognizes the political value of cheap food.

A couple of my cousins (brothers) run a medium-sized cash crop farm in a Plains state. Between 1995 and 2017 they received almost $400,000 in crop subsidy payments, according to the website ewg.org.

 

[Helena]

I first read this several years ago and thought it interesting.

Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War


Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War – Marotta On Money

.

 

[joeea]

I first read this several years ago and thought it interesting.

Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War


Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War – Marotta On Money

.

Perhaps interesting, but just a myth.

 

[target2019]

I expect any company selling goods can quote the tariff as a reason for increased consumer prices. They are probably cases where the consumer can directly verify the increase due to tariff, but I think most prices increases will be difficult to sort out. Here's a story from Walmart which is a general warning about price increases to come.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ncrease-prices-for-u-s-shoppers-idUSKCN1SM15O

 

[Montecfo]

Technically, the tariffs are paid by the importers.

But as for who eventually foots the bill - it depends who you believe.

If you believe the President, "The Tariffs paid to the USA have had little impact on product cost, mostly borne by China".

If you believe Chad Brown, senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, "The economic evidence to date on this is exactly the opposite of Trump’s statement. The impact of the 2018 tariffs has been passed on to US consumers in the form of higher prices. China is NOT bearing the burden of Trump’s tariffs."

If you believe Michael Klein, professor of international economic affairs at Tufts University and founder of the nonpartisan economics publication Econofact, "It’s like saying, 'I put a sales tax on producers, isn’t this great we’re getting all this money? And then consumers say, 'Wait, that’s from my wallet.'"

I know who I believe.

(Even Trump economic adviser Larry Kudlow admits "both sides will pay".)

Both sides pay. Tariffs damage the market for imported Chinese goods, so China sells less. They may reduce price to offset tariffs. China pays.

Demand may be inelastic. Prices are increased by the amount of the tariffs. US pays.

Tariffs go to US treasury. US pays and US government receives.

Tariffs on US goods go the other way. It is just that we import much more from China so much harder for them to damage us.

 

[pj.mask]

A couple of my cousins (brothers) run a medium-sized cash crop farm in a Plains state. Between 1995 and 2017 they received almost $400,000 in crop subsidy payments, according to the website ewg.org.

Nice. Just looked up my family. $1.852 million in subsidies between 1995-2016.

I know this number will be a lot more if you take into account the recent tariff bail outs. Significant amounts were for not planting (‘support crop prices’) in areas.

PS thanks everyone for paying your taxes

 

[target2019]

My greatest subsidies have been unemployment insurance payments and a 5-lb block of WIC cheese!

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I first read this several years ago and thought it interesting.

Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War


Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War – Marotta On Money

.

Actually, the Democrats, largely advocates for the South and the agrarian economy, were able to reduce tariffs in a series of acts starting in 1845 and continuing until the Southern states seceded. By 1857 tariff rates were down to 15%, from a peak rate of 38% in the late 1820s. The argument that tariffs surpassed slavery as a cause for the Civil War is a minority viewpoint.

Tariffs were more than a tool for regulating trade back then -- they provided the federal government with almost all of its operating revenue.

 

[HFWR]

I first read this several years ago and thought it interesting.



Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War





Protective Tariffs: The Primary Cause of the Civil War – Marotta On Money



.

As a counterpoint, search for “Bleeding Kansas”. Then search for “articles of secession”.

I can’t point to any “direct” effect from increased tariffs, though I haven’t exactly considered it much. Likely at least some secondary or tangential effects. Can’t argue that there is a need for addressing trade issues, particularly with China, but can’t say I’m impressed with the methods employed...

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Nice. Just looked up my family. $1.852 million in subsidies between 1995-2016.

I know this number will be a lot more if you take into account the recent tariff bail outs. Significant amounts were for not planting (‘support crop prices’) in areas.

PS thanks everyone for paying your taxes

I'm not sure that tariff aid will go very far. Figuring my cousins' acreage, price per bushel of soybeans and average yield per acre in their area, I come up with gross value of their average harvest at $1.7 million. Of course, most of the money rolls out as fast as it rolls in. Their county has thousands of farms, and they mostly farm thousands of acres each. $20 billion to $35 billion in relief is going to be stretched pretty thin.

 

[Totoro]

They're so efficient, in fact, that they've depressed the market for many of the commodities they produce. That's why they're subsidized -- government recognizes the political value of cheap food.

In Europe food production is subsidized for security reasons in supply, not prices. I expect the same in the USA, and I believe it is also a major concern for China.

 

[Markola]

Looks like John Deere’s earnings are feeling the pinch: https://apple.news/A9lIKV_aaSECZxfu4zYBYlA

It usually doesn’t work so well when an angry kid holds his breath in hopes that the other kid passes out, but we live in interesting times.

 

[NYEXPAT]

CRAPPL stock is a good example. YTD high was $215 (right after earnings announcement) and will be $140 or less very shortly!

 

[ghsebldr]

The initial tariffs were 10% on about $200B of a $540B imbalance in trade between the nations. If your contractor is complaining that there was a 10% increase in the materials he used on your job and that it was significant, then perhaps his supplier was gouging him.

I manufacture greenhouses for the hemp and marijuana industry in the PNW. The day after tariffs were mentioned over a year ago the major supplier of conduit in the US instituted a 10% across the board price increase. Even though they hadn't seen a cent of increase yet.

I hear from my vendors that another 10% will be here in a few days.
My conduit costs represent about 40% of my inputs so someone, namely me, is already paying the extra costs and trying to pass at least a part of that increase along to my customers in higher prices.

Our conduit is produced here in the US (calif) from rolls of steel from mostly China and to a lesser degree Vietnam.
We send them our scrap and they send us back rolls of steel of questionable quality and content.


So yes skipro33 I am also being gouged by my supplier and they have no problem doing it. They now have a monopoly in the conduit industry having quietly bought up all of their competition over the years.

With all of that being said if you see the price of marijuana and the hemp extract, CBD go up significantly you will see the end result of tariffs on my industry.

 

[Bir48die]

I manufacture greenhouses for the hemp and marijuana industry in the PNW. The day after tariffs were mentioned over a year ago the major supplier of conduit in the US instituted a 10% across the board price increase. Even though they hadn't seen a cent of increase yet.

I hear from my vendors that another 10% will be here in a few days.
My conduit costs represent about 40% of my inputs so someone, namely me, is already paying the extra costs and trying to pass at least a part of that increase along to my customers in higher prices.

Our conduit is produced here in the US (calif) from rolls of steel from mostly China and to a lesser degree Vietnam.
We send them our scrap and they send us back rolls of steel of questionable quality and content.


So yes skipro33 I am also being gouged by my supplier and they have no problem doing it. They now have a monopoly in the conduit industry having quietly bought up all of their competition over the years.

With all of that being said if you see the price of marijuana and the hemp extract, CBD go up significantly you will see the end result of tariffs on my industry.

Yes but weed in the NW has been too cheap to sustain the amount of growers in the business

 

[joeea]

Tariffs go to US treasury. US pays and US government receives.

If by "US pays", you mean "we pay", then you are correct.

It's a tax that we pay via increased prices.

 

[NW-Bound]

Some of the tariffs were already levied. The recent ones are on additional goods.

With the tariff being so high, one would and should expect price increases, or in other words inflation.

Yet, from April 2018 to April 2019, the inflation was 2%. Nothing out of the ordinary here. It's a mystery to me.



PS. I found the numbers. High tariff has been imposed since Jan 2018 on $50 billion worth of goods. The recent one was on an additional $200 billion worth of imports.

The original $50B was obviously too small to matter. The US annual personal consumption is 14,000 billion dollars in 2018, according to the Federal Reserve.

Raising the tariff from 10% to 25% on $200B worth of imports means $30B worth of additional tax. This $30B would be 0.2% of the total $14,000 B.

 

[Markola]

$30B tax is not noticeable yet we could never “afford” to tax ourselves to spend that kind of money/year fixing our airports and water systems, but I digress.

 

[WestUniversity]

The Chinese have far more to lose than we do. But no surprise, they are not giving up easily.

Americans should not be hoping for a "quick end" end to the trade war, in my view. They should be hoping for a real resetting of our trade relationship with China. This is not to benefit farmers in a couple of quarters, but future generations.

Unfortunately people are often all too willing to sacrifice long-term stability for the sake of short term gains...

 

[target2019]

Looks like John Deere’s earnings are feeling the pinch: https://apple.news/A9lIKV_aaSECZxfu4zYBYlA

It usually doesn’t work so well when an angry kid holds his breath in hopes that the other kid passes out, but we live in interesting times.

The question, as always, is how much pain, and for how long?

 

[Christine]

Yes - I have a Huawei P20 phone. 1 year old. Which may not get any more security updates. And if so I have to get another phone much earlier than planned.


I won't go broke. But it's a hassle. And not very environmentally friendly to chuck a new phone.


Earlier I had a good laugh when Americans added tariffs to steel and aluminium imported from Norway because you find us to be a security risk.










Boo!