Anyone a VAX/VMS administrator in a former life?

wab said:
You're right. You should really compare VMS to Unix, which came out something like 10 years earlier. I *hated* DEC's DCL compared to the elegantly simple Unix command line.

You be the judge.

ls /bin

or

DIR [U1:SYS$SYSTEM.BIN]*.*;*

(or something like that; I've thankfully forgotten the syntax.)
Click to expand...

In fairness to VMS, I think the last two characters are redundant. Wouldn't just "DIR *.*" give you all the versions as well?

Speaking of which, the VMS automatic version-numbering feature is the only one I have ever wished other operating systems would copy. Quite a good idea, that one.

Bpp
 
bpp said:
In fairness to VMS, I think the last two characters are redundant.
Click to expand...

Ugh.   Double-ugh.   There's no need to be fair to VMS.

But, yes, the versioning stuff was optional in the DCL args.    I don't remember if you could actually turn it off, though.    Certainly not at the user level, so you had to PURGE your cruft often.

Versioning is a Good Thing.    Versioning built into the OS and forced on the user is definitely a Bad Thing.    The VAX and VMS were the epitome of CISC thinking.    Ugh.   *Shudder*.

Simple is beautiful.    Live free or die.   /etc   :)
 
Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
How can you compare a real-time, multi-user, multi-tasking virtual memory operating system written by real New England engineers with a single task, single thread, crappily written and partially stolen piece of crud written by relatively damp Seattle coffee drinkers.
Click to expand...
Price/performance? The PC killed the minicomputer industry in Massachusetts. Digital, Data General, Apollo, Wang.. RIP.
 
wab said:
Versioning is a Good Thing. Versioning built into the OS and forced on the user is definitely a Bad Thing. The VAX and VMS were the epitome of CISC thinking. Ugh. *Shutter*.
Click to expand...

Yeah, ok, but you know, alternatives like SCCS and CVS are just a lot of work. They are good for project management, but for everyday protection against stepping on one's own penile member, I have to admit that the VMS auto-versioning system was kind of handy at times. Just put a purge command in your logout script, if it bothered you that much.

Simple is beautiful. Live free or die. /etc :)
Click to expand...

I'm as much of a unix bigot as the next guy, and spent my time in the trenches waving the unix/c flag against the entrenched VMS/fortran forces back when it was a live issue, but hey, that war has long been won. Not even an issue any more. Now enough time has passed for the veterans from both sides to get together and grudgingly admit what the other side did right after all. I'll give CFB his versioning system, he'll grant that unix did everything else in the world better, and we'll all go out and get wasted together.

What say?

Bpp
 
I'm down with the get wasted part!

Now if only UNIX had less cumbersome auditing. I generate gigabytes a week, how is my auditor supposed to sift through that! And that's with reduction tools! It's version of "domain" security leaves something to be desired (speaking of Solaris and Irix here, specifically). But anyhoo, off to work.
 
bpp said:
Really? That's cool, I never knew that.

So each VAX had a mini-PDP-11 built in to boot it?
Was this just the 11/780, or did later versions have this too?

Bpp
Click to expand...

Just the 780 as far as I recall. The PDP-11 loaded the vax's microcode and fed it the cold boot.

Wab - when you write an OS, I'll take your comments more seriously.

Unix? Ick!

The minicomputer industry killed itself.

I think I covered everything

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
Wab - when you write an OS, I'll take your comments more seriously.
Click to expand...

Does grad school count?   That was one of the more fun things they made me do.   Did I ever tell you about the PDP-8 I made out of bitslice micros?

Thankfully, I didn't have to write my OS in MACRO-11.   *Shudder*.
 
why, oh why, for all things great and holy did I enter this thread :p
 
I was gong to make some snide snappy comment about people on this thread needing to check in at the nearest chapter of Nerds Anonymous, but realized I would probably tick off half our regular posters and decided "nevermind". ::)
 
cube_rat said:
why, oh why, for all things great and holy did I enter this thread  :p 
Click to expand...

I tried to avoid it for four pages.   But the praise of VMS brought back a flood of terrible memories.   Bpp alluded to the war between the Unix/C faction and the VMS/FORTRAN establishment.   Those were interesting times.

Suffice it to say that Unix weenies wanted VMS off the VAX so badly that some of them wrote a version of Unix that ran on *top* of VMS.   Anybody remember Eunice?   *Shudder*.
 
wab said:
Does grad school count? That was one of the more fun things they made me do. Did I ever tell you about the PDP-8 I made out of bitslice micros?
Click to expand...
No. Everybody did that in first grade! ;)
Thankfully, I didn't have to write my OS in MACRO-11. *Shudder*.
Click to expand...
Me too. Most of VMS was written in Bliss. Bliss is ignorance. Ignorance is Bliss. Any questions?

:LOL:
 
I've been knee deep in UNIX/AIX stuff for the last several months.  Command line manuerving and long red fingernails just don't cut it.  I just want to simplify my life not complicate it with stuff like recursive commands that can potentially hose the system if you're not paying attention  :dead:
 
RSTS, TOPS, TECO, Bliss, Eunice, GDOS...

It all seemed fun at the time.

I wouldn't want to go back.
 
RSTS 4b took my computing virginity.

It'll always have a special place in my heart...*snifff*
 
Took BASIC and FORTRAN in college; used them infrequently...

User of VAX/VMS, UNIX, DOS; learned enough to be dangerous...  ::)
 
73

I think basing someones "geekiness" on their ability to take, email and post photos taken with a cell phone camera is pretty sad.
 
Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
73

I think basing someones "geekiness" on their ability to take, email and post photos taken with a cell phone camera is pretty sad.
Click to expand...

Yep!  However, knowing about the book "snowcrash" edges on geekiness.
 
86 here. But I had to lie on a couple, because the questions sucked.

Last good SciFi / Fantasy stuff I read was the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons. Anybody know of some high caliber SciFi worth reading?
 
Cute Fuzzy Bunny said:
I read it in ~1994 or 1995.  Sucked.
Click to expand...

The fact that you read it proves once again, you're an uber-geek
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom