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Old 07-25-2021, 02:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ExPatKiwi View Post
If you look at the performance of the stock market the last 20 or so years it now provides a better annual return than working. This creates a feedback loop invest watch investments rocket up and retire early living off the investment returns.
....
The more I think about the Federal government could solve all it's social programs issues by simple default index investing for every citizen in the social security and medicare programs.
Everybody owns everybody's everything. Finally, a socialism that works.

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If everyone does this who will want to work and what does it do to economic growth.
How many work-free billionaires can capitalism sustain?

I'd give it a try but I suspect there's a downside to it.
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Old 07-25-2021, 02:56 PM   #42
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Now or in the past, if you were handed everything and you never had to try hard, you would become a weak person IMO. My mom says people nowadays break easily because their lives have been too easy. (She thinks existential crises only exist in the modern world. People in the old days were too busy just trying to survive and put food on the table, so they had no time to be worried about the purpose of life, etc.)

I had a cushy life financially until I was out of my parent's nest. I complained to my mom and she said something like this - "You don't need to buy furniture when you don't have money. Find a cardboard box and put it upside down and you now have a table." She had no intention of helping me out. What she said was kind of a slap in my face but it definitely woke me up. I'm glad she talked to me like that. I actually felt stronger. I was like "Why the hell not? I can do this!"

I wonder how many people talk like that to their kids nowadays...
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:10 PM   #43
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"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."

I think this has been the case with all civilizations since time began. Maybe not all that noticeable in the here and now but historical speaking, it has been the case.
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:27 PM   #44
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Money does funny things to people. I have chosen not to talk about money/wealth specifics with friends and family. I have noticed that when certain friends know specifics about other friends, judgements arise... "Oh, he can pick up the bill, he can afford it",
I would hate that, with a passion!
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:38 PM   #45
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A generation who is more dependent on their parent's success than ever before is not evidence of "weak men"; it is a by-product of the world we created for them. All of us in our pension-funded ERs and $ Million homes isn't something most of them will be able to earn at without lots of help and good fortune. They start out in a deep hole.
We made it this way. We love it this way. We own it. I just pray they can fix it.
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:58 PM   #46
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Jumping back into the fray here. Frankly, cannot argue with many of the comments. At the risk of sounding "political", although I would just call it patriotism, I believe we STILL live in the most opportunistic country on the planet. Those who want to work still have the same opportunities we had as young adults. Its still a choice, and we are fortunate to have a choice. Are there new/different obstacles? You bet. But, there were obstacles when we were younger as well. IMHO, the constant bombardment of 24/7 media sources pushing their agendas (regardless of what side you are on) taints the water, especially for the younger folks. When entitlement sets into the mindset of the next generation as opposed to the merits of hard work, that is when I believe we become lost as a country.

Just my opinion...
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Old 07-25-2021, 05:42 PM   #47
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"Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.”

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Old 07-25-2021, 05:45 PM   #48
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Agree...

We did some bathroom renovations in our previous home. The contractor was a local man, with ties through his wife to the Hispanic community. Many of the skilled techs were Hispanic immigrants with green cards.

I chatted with our tile setter, who said he recognized me from when he'd first arrived in our state and was mowing lawns, including our neighbor's. Through the church, he met our contractor, who offered him an apprenticeship with a skilled tile setter. He was now a full-fledged tile setter.

Meanwhile, he became a U.S. citizen and his next big step was going to be owning his own tile business. He was sure he could do it.

That's the American way. It is still with us.

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Jumping back into the fray here. Frankly, cannot argue with many of the comments. At the risk of sounding "political", although I would just call it patriotism, I believe we STILL live in the most opportunistic country on the planet. .
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Old 07-25-2021, 05:48 PM   #49
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A generation who is more dependent on their parent's success than ever before ...
Speaking as a boomer, I resemble that remark.
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Old 07-25-2021, 06:12 PM   #50
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I think the economy will do just fine. I'm sure doing my share by blowing far more dough now than when I was working.
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:33 PM   #51
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I have also heard people talk about inheritances they are counting on, almost as if they are "entitled to it"

I am hoping to leave a stealthy inheritance to my nieces and nephews.

No inheritance is coming for me though. In the least optimal case, I expect to need to spend $500 thousand or $1 million to provide for my parents retirement.
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:45 PM   #52
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For that effort I earned the sobriquet "Leonardo".
"Sobriquet"? Wholly smokes Walt. Keep it simple. Us GI Joes use "Call Sign". Yours is obviously "Leonardo". Maverick sends.
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:52 PM   #53
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"Sobriquet"? Wholly smokes Walt. Keep it simple. Us GI Joes use "Call Sign". Yours is obviously "Leonardo". Maverick sends.
Whoa....I had to look that word up. I guess I went to the wrong schools!
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:54 PM   #54
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I thought this thread was going to be about all the hormones in our drinking water from birth control pills. That and all other medications that get peed into our sewage systems, and into our drinking water.
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:58 PM   #55
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I can see the four Yorkshiremen showing up here soon.
I hope so, I kind of relate to those guys as I remember my childhood suffering. But I ended up with a pretty good golf game and a few decent wives (over time).
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Old 07-26-2021, 01:39 AM   #56
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I thought this thread was going to be about every kid nowadays getting a participation trophy, and dumbing down education to the lowest common denominator. Not to mention coddling every person who gets offended about something. Then again, I suppose the “older generation” always worries more about the direction things are going and so far, it’s worked out ok.
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Old 07-26-2021, 03:09 AM   #57
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You must have me on ignore

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Originally Posted by Bigdawg View Post
"Sobriquet"? Wholly smokes Walt. Keep it simple. Us GI Joes use "Call Sign". Yours is obviously "Leonardo". Maverick sends.
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:18 AM   #58
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It's not the weak men thing that worries me but the FIRE movement. Let me explain as I'm seeing it first-hand at work, many have saved in their 401ks and have pensions and are now retiring early between the ages of 55 and 60 based on the market returns. If you look at the performance of the stock market the last 20 or so years it now provides a better annual return than working. This creates a feedback loop invest watch investments rocket up and retire early living off the investment returns. If everyone does this who will want to work and what does it do to economic growth. (…)
New technologies and problem solving paradigms are allowing a single, open minded, worker to create tools that do the work of 100, or more, traditional workers. If that person can do the work of 100 others in a short period, and create something that allows other do for the same in perpetuity, I’d say they’ve earned the right to live off of that.

Does that person, who has done the work of 100 men, still count as a weak man if they don’t feel like changing their own oil on the weekend?
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Old 07-26-2021, 06:36 PM   #59
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This is one of the reasons I don't plan to leave much to our kids. No risk of influencing their strength or weakness.

Let the good times roll...
Outstanding response!
What! No inheritance? you mean I might have to work ?

Seems your thinkings akin to Gates, and Buffett in this era eeh?
I agree.

I'm fond of local animal shelters to re-route left over funding.
Youths are spoiled rotten in my circles. Let 'em eat cake!
The worlds becoming a stage worse than it was 50+yrs ago.
I'm not continuing.

Good luck & Best wishes....
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Old 07-26-2021, 07:29 PM   #60
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This is one of the reasons I don't plan to leave much to our kids. No risk of influencing their strength or weakness.

Let the good times roll...
But then where would the money end up if not to the kids? I remember one time someone told me their grandfather set it up so his grandchildren wouldn't get any of his money until they reached the age of 60. He didn't feel they would be responsible enough until such time.

I don't know. Each of us has to make that decision or it will be made for us.
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