Are we creating "weak men"?

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Yes, we are creating weak men, and we have been for decades. Blah, blah, blah........ See also the plummeting testosterone rates, which are likely related to modern diets.

There is a fix for low T.....see your Doc. Be a man again!

[kgtest]

Just past 40. Been working 2 full time engineering jobs while remote until today. My choice. Also started a tree company during the pandemic from nothing on a whim because I was sorta irked watching a few able "weak men" collect their unemployment checks.

I only got stronger this past year. Not sure about the other's. I have a thousand choices every day, and I don't squander my decisions. I have a family to support and I will not waste time doing just that!

[kgtest]

Weak men open the door for their lady, real men pay the insurance on that same door they just opened.
Weak men hold an old ladies hand as she crosses the street, strong men pay grannies cell and move her into assisted living when she needs.
Weak men brag about inconsequential things while talking down to what they love, while strong men build integrity quietly and humbly while doing what is right.

I've seen a lot of the weak for sure. Seen some boys become men...seen men crumble and collapse under their own weight.

Having a strong male role model is what I attribute to my strength, after all... Monkey see, monkey do! I tell my kids this all the time.

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 There is a fix for low T.....see your Doc. Be a man again!

"Blah blah blah"? How about a counterargument, or do you typically just resort to ridiculing people who say things you don't like?

And we're talking about young men, not old coots. If young men need testosterone replacement therapy, it's a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest Weak men open the door for their lady, real men pay the insurance on that same door they just opened. Weak men hold an old ladies hand as she crosses the street, strong men pay grannies cell and move her into assisted living when she needs. Weak men brag about inconsequential things while talking down to what they love, while strong men build integrity quietly and humbly while doing what is right. I've seen a lot of the weak for sure. Seen some boys become men...seen men crumble and collapse under their own weight. Having a strong male role model is what I attribute to my strength, after all... Monkey see, monkey do! I tell my kids this all the time.

I don't know about all that, but I agree with the last bit -- the strong male role model. Which implicates the rise of single motherhood. So many boys today are raised by single mothers, with no experience of a father in the home. Then they go to school, where almost all the teachers are women. Then they're raised in a culture which belittles men and bends over backwards to praise women. Warren Farrell and others have done a great job in explicating the consequences of all this.

[audreyh1]

I suspect it’s related to increasing metabolic disease in increasingly younger people, but what do I know?

[Gumby]

I credit my mother with teaching me how to be a man. She was the toughest human being I ever knew, and it was she who taught me to work hard, to persevere in tough times, to fight when necessary and to be responsible, honest, trustworthy, forthright and strong. My father was a sailor and almost never home, and on the rare occasions when he was home, was a piss poor example to follow.

[Amethyst]

I would like to know what they would do for a lady, who pays her own homeowner's insurance without any difficulty, and perhaps even knows how to replace a door?

(Re: opening doors, I have noticed that polite people will hold open the door for anybody, regardless of gender).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgtest Weak men open the door for their lady, real men pay the insurance on that same door they just opened. .

[niven]

I retired early with what I think is more than enough money. Am I weak or strong? Some would argue it's weak that I don't continue to work.

I have always had anxiety in social situations, yet have been married since I was 25 and held down a good job even when I had to work with large groups. Am I weak or strong?

I never moved far from my parents or my wife's parents, unlike my siblings. But my wife and I are independent, and helped/still help take care of parents when spouses died. Were we weak or strong?

Are people weak or strong if they're different or made different choices in life than you?

There are a lot of stones being thrown in this thread.

[Letj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby I credit my mother with teaching me how to be a man. She was the toughest human being I ever knew, and it was she who taught me to work hard, to persevere in tough times, to fight when necessary and to be responsible, honest, trustworthy, forthright and strong. My father was a sailor and almost never home, and on the rare occasions when he was home, was a piss poor example to follow.

This is how you raise good men and good children! While I value the role of a good father in the home, too many are not good examples. Despite not having a present and good male role model, boys can grow up to be great men. I have a feeling I would really like you as a person in real life and I bet your young wife is happy with you and I suspect, from reading your posts and the wisdom and clarity evident from them, you would have been an awesome dad.

[Amethyst]

Some would, but then some people seem to have been born primarily to make the rest of us tired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by niven Some would argue it's weak that I don't continue to work. .

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst Some would, but then some people seem to have been born primarily to make the rest of us tired.

You can say that again!

[GravitySucks]

I note a couple of Socrates quotes. No need to go back that far:
When I started at megacorp a guy at least a generation older was having a bad day. He told me he was upset because his mother didn't die and now his inheritance was going to be fritterex away on keeping the old lady alive.
Another coworker at least a half generation older used to call his attorney on company time almost daily trying to get his child support payments lowered.

My generation lost the chances for the good low education factory jobs that were here since the start of the 20th century. Now I think we have a much greater gap between the upper middle classes and the wealthy vs. working class, and a lower gap between the working class and the non deserving poor. (Regards to Alfred Doolittle.) A few skills are greatly rewarded - screw the rest of you.

A lot of my friends don't know how to fix or build anything, mostly because they never had a reason too. One friend I help fix simple things asked how I knew what to do - I knew because it broke once before and I was unable to afford to have someone fix it. He's a more than competent mathematician, just no skills in home/auto repair. Another friend is a very good salesman. Two years ago in his late 40s I showed him the difference between flat and philips screw drivers. He never knew the name. My math skills are basic and I couldn't sell water to a dying man. They're both good men. Just way different skill sets

[JJpop]

Everyone is different. Just look at brothers in the same family.
There are plenty of young people working their tails off but in a different way from 50 years ago.

[Joggernot]

Books to Read:
The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Sommers
Real Boys by William Pollack, Ph.D.

[cat4ever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwerty3656 This is the issue today. There are so many young men today who did all the right things (studied hard got college degrees, etc) who cannot find a job in their field of study.

Just speaking from personal acquaintances, at least some of this problem is picking the wrong field of study. Colleges will gladly take your money to teach you what interests you, you can probably tell where this leads from here...

[patela6]

I worry about the kids not having grit and determination. Those are two things kids who grow up in working class or poverty intrinsically have. Best we've done is delayed gratification.

[meleana]

Yes. Both men and women.

[Amethyst]

Haven't read those books, but the first title brought to mind 3rd grade, when it definitely seemed like several boys were waging unprovoked war on me! Chasing me, punching me in the stomach, pulling my hair, etc. and all the grownups said was, "Oh, they like you. Boys will be boys," etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joggernot Books to Read: The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Sommers Real Boys by William Pollack, Ph.D.

[Out_the_Door]

having no children I have no skin in the game. I left home at 17 and never looked back. It seems that my friends with offspring are much more tolerant of their childrens lack of direction than I would ever be.

[Venturer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwerty3656 This is the issue today. There are so many young men today who did all the right things (studied hard got college degrees, etc) who cannot find a job in their field of study.

My thoughts on that are what was their field of study? some of my daughter's friends went to collage because daddy said they had to. Their study was whatever was easiest so they could party. But at one time the thoughts were that degree guaranteed a better job. Then they cry because the can't get a job with it. What is your degree in? Ohh liberal arts, Why didn't you study something useful instead of how to party with your friends. It seems the results of that are showing up in manifest ways today, as weak men.