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Old 11-05-2018, 03:43 PM   #21
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In the 1990's we saved enough points on our Discover card to fly 1st class round trip to Europe. Seriously, back in the day when you could do that! I did not want to get off the plane. We could not see any other passengers. Almost like a private room. Seat turned into bed with clean sheets, we ordered meals off a menu. It felt like we had the stewardess to ourselves, she was at our beckon call. Wine, cocktails, cappuccino after the meal. When we got on, slippers, warm cashews. I've never felt so pampered.


No wonder once you're accustomed to a certain lifestyle, it's very difficult to go back. I feel for Mrs. Madoff, you know, Bernie's wife. It must be so hard for her. LOL
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:37 PM   #22
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I find it hard to understand why all of a sudden this flurry of articles beating up on FIRE?

I've come to the conclusion that it has to come down to jealousy. If not, then why care?

+1. It is the same with people in real life who are jealous of those who retire early. Otherwise who cares if people you don't know or are casual acquaintances retire at 30 or work until 80. Why not just be happy for people who have found a lifestyle that works for them.
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:39 PM   #23
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"Personally, I like to consume. I like nice clothes, nice jewelry and going out to nice dinners. I, too, am a radical saver, but the point of my saving isn’t so I don’t have to work, it’s so I can consume more later. "



So, apparently, the author plans to work until he drops dead. But, at least he will have nice clothes and jewelry! No thanks.

No doubt it will shock the author to find out everybody does not think his way, and that people are different.
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:57 PM   #24
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+1. It is the same with people in real life who are jealous of those who retire early.
I've found that people have no understanding of a lifestyle other than their own. If you graduate with $100K in debt, and end up being a 'gig' journalist, making $250/article, of course, there's no hope for you to FIRE! I'm always amazed at how close-minded many folks are, and how few people actually plan for the future.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:09 PM   #25
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i think it's accurate - it doesn't imply that one should fly first class, just that one could if one chose to
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Right, Rev, most of us didn’t get where we are by throwing money around! We are people who revel in stealth wealth. Our holey garments speak volumes.
Just sayin’


Just because one can afford new socks does not mean that he has to throw away holey socks. See Paul Wolfowitz, President of World Bank in 2007, when he had to take off his shoes when visiting a mosque.







Same with new shoes.

Just sayin'.



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Old 11-05-2018, 05:33 PM   #26
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No wonder once you're accustomed to a certain lifestyle, it's very difficult to go back. I feel for Mrs. Madoff, you know, Bernie's wife. It must be so hard for her. LOL
Having flown First Class for 4 million miles over 30 years DW and I only fly our 8 or 10 flights a year up-front.

When I first RE'd we did try a flight to Europe in coach. Let's just say it didn't work out.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:42 PM   #27
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When I first RE'd we did try a flight to Europe in coach. Let's just say it didn't work out.
Back in the day I used to fly back and forth across the pond quite a lot on Pan Am 747s, and it was far better back in coach than up front.

Why? Because in those days the planes were half empty and you could take four seats abreast (they were 3-4-3 across) and stretch out with a blanket over you and sleep all the way across the ocean.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:51 PM   #28
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Back in the day I used to fly back and forth across the pond quite a lot on Pan Am 747s, and it was far better back in coach than up front.

Why? Because in those days the planes were half empty and you could take four seats abreast (they were 3-4-3 across) and stretch out with a blanket over you and sleep all the way across the ocean.
But you missed out on the upstairs bar/lounge with the electric piano!

But they eventually replaced the lounge with seats; usually flew to Japan with 8 seats upstairs. Two rows of two on a side.

But if you really want luxury: First on Singapore Air. The only thing better is having your own private jet. Wine list in leather bound book, "Dom" for mimosas before take off.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:52 PM   #29
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My suspicion is that enough big shot business owners are getting worried about the rising visibility of the FIRE movement that they have given orders to their minions in the media to try to undermine it with lots of negative commentary. If this FIRE stuff catches on, consumerism declines, sales fall, profits crater, and eventually there will not be enough working stiffs to man the salt mines. They have to nip this trend in the bud. The "journalists" involved are likely wage slaves and so they have no choice but to follow orders.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:59 PM   #30
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Sounds like we need a new poll: How many here can fly first class but do not?

Going to be more interesting than the exit polls tomorrow!
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:02 PM   #31
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But you missed out on the upstairs bar/lounge with the electric piano!

But they eventually replaced the lounge with seats; usually flew to Japan with 8 seats upstairs. Two rows of two on a side.
Yes, I also flew a lot on Pan Am between US and South America. The upstairs was dedicated to Business class with no movies or other distractions so people could either work or sleep. That was always my first choice.

But every now and then they insisted on upgrading me to First Class, which was just absolutely awesome. Prime beef steaks and all the other trimmings.

Come to think of it, this stuff is probably a significant part of the reason there is no Pan Am anymore.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:12 PM   #32
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The "FIRE Movement," as it's being called, is just the latest novelty - which is also why the focus is on the few who manage to achieve extremely early FIRE, or who achieve it by very strenuous frugality.

In addition, the topic of FIRE is highly provoking to younger readers, who have been fed a steady social-media diet of how awful their retirement prospects will be, compared with earlier generations. Provoked people generate more clicks!
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:45 PM   #33
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What do you guys think of his statement that saving 50% of salary is radical. To me it is normal to save 50% of salary. Saving like 80% is radical.
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:50 PM   #34
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...I guess if you can't have it, then find a reason to knock it - nobody should be able to do it or be happy doing it.
I seem to recall that Aesop had a fable for this situation - something about a fox and some grapes.
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:53 PM   #35
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I am happy that many others think it is fantasy. Let them continue working and paying into SS. These stupid arrivals put too much emphasis on RE not enough on FI.
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Old 11-06-2018, 07:42 AM   #36
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It was a very shallow article. Just some young guy defending his own outlook and not trying to understand alternative outlooks. There is nothing wrong with enjoying your work and saving so you can live well later. In fact, that is what many of us FIRE folks did. It is just that most of us in that boat considered FIRE to be a bit earlier than normal, like mid 50s or early 60s. The retire in your 30s radicals he dismisses are largely not interested in a life of consumption but elect a frugal life divorced from the obligation to work. Just a different choice. Most of those radical FIRE'ees don't attack people who choose a different lifestyle they simply point out their's is achievable.
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:21 AM   #37
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I seem to recall that Aesop had a fable for this situation - something about a fox and some grapes.
Aesop's Fable numbered 15 in the Perry Index
The_Fox_and_the_Grapes
The narration is concise and subsequent retellings have often been equally so. The story concerns a fox that tries to eat grapes from a vine but cannot reach them. Rather than admit defeat, he states they are undesirable. The expression "sour grapes" originated from this fable.
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:28 AM   #38
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That fable is also highly apropos whenever people condemn one or another luxury as decadent or evil. Diamonds, fur coats, large houses, etc. You can't afford it, and nobody is ever going to buy one for you, so find a moral argument against it, and work it like there's no tomorrow.

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Aesop's Fable numbered 15 in the Perry Index
The_Fox_and_the_Grapes
The narration is concise and subsequent retellings have often been equally so. The story concerns a fox that tries to eat grapes from a vine but cannot reach them. Rather than admit defeat, he states they are undesirable. The expression "sour grapes" originated from this fable.
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:33 AM   #39
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Some info about the author—sort of interesting imo. He’s early 40s and worked at Lehman Bros. His book about Lehman might be interesting.


From Bloomberg: Jared Dillian is the editor and publisher of The Daily Dirtnap, investment strategist at Mauldin Economics, and the author of "Street Freak" and "All the Evil of This World." He may have a stake in the areas he writes about.

From dailydirtnap.com, his website about his newsletter ($795/year, started in 2008):
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Jared Dillian is the editor of The Daily Dirtnap, a daily market newsletter for investment professionals, continuously published since 2008. He graduated from the United States Coast Guard Academy in 1996 with a B.S. in Mathematics and Computer Science, and from the University of San Francisco in 2001 with a Masters in Business Administration, concentration in Finance. Jared worked for a small floor market maker on the Pacific Options Exchange from 1999-2000, and was a trader for Lehman Brothers from 2001 to 2008, specializing in index arbitrage and ETF trading. He is also the author of STREET FREAK: Money And Madness At Lehman Brothers, which was named Businessweek’s #1 general business book of 2011, and the novel ALL THE EVIL OF THIS WORLD, published in 2016. Additionally, Jared is a teaching associate in the graduate business program at Coastal Carolina University. Jared is also a regular contributor at Forbes and Mauldin Economics, and a columnist at Bloomberg View. His media appearances include MSNBC, Bloomberg TV, BNN, The New York Times, LA Times, Business Insider and dozens of local and syndicated radio programs.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:00 AM   #40
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