Automakers to invest $300B in electric vehicles

[REWahoo]

This should pour some fuel on the ongoing EV debate on the forum:

A Reuters analysis of 29 global automakers found that they are investing at least $300 billion in electric vehicles [over the next 5-10 years], with more than 45 percent of that earmarked for China.

https://graphics.reuters.com/AUTOS-INVESTMENT-ELECTRIC/010081ZB3HD/index.html

The article provides a breakdown by manufacturer of their planned EV spending for R&D and procurement, and in what country those dollars will be spent.

VW has plans to spend the most of any manufacturer by far, a total of $91B.

Of the $300B total, $136B is targeted to China, $72B to Germany and $34B to the US.

 

[aja8888]

This should pour some fuel on the ongoing EV debate on the forum:



https://graphics.reuters.com/AUTOS-INVESTMENT-ELECTRIC/010081ZB3HD/index.html

The article provides a breakdown by manufacturer of their planned EV spending for R&D and procurement, and in what country those dollars will be spent.

VW has plans to spend the most of any manufacturer by far, a total of $91B.

Of the $300B total, $136B is targeted to China, $72B to Germany and $34B to the US.

Interesting. These are only budget estimates and time will tell how that goes. If this comes true, and there are buyers for those cars, I wonder who will be developing additional power plants and charging networks to supply the necessary electrons?

 

[marko]

This should pour some fuel on the ongoing EV debate on the forum:
.

Pouring fuel on an electric car debate?

 

[REWahoo]

Pouring fuel on an electric car debate?

Congratulations on getting the joke.

 

[REWahoo]

If this comes true, and there are buyers for those cars, I wonder who will be developing additional power plants and charging networks to supply the necessary electrons?

Good question. Looks like the Chinese government, as well as the Germans, may have some major infrastructure issues to address.

 

[RunningBum]

You haven't been parking in front of Tesla chargers, have you?

https://electrek.co/2019/01/01/tesla-pickup-truck-drivers-supercharger-protest/

 

[marko]

Congratulations on getting the joke.

I like to look for connections

 

[travelover]

.......
VW has plans to spend the most of any manufacturer by far, a total of $91B.
.............

Yea, but they will lie about the range.

 

[aaronc879]

You haven't been parking in front of Tesla chargers, have you?

https://electrek.co/2019/01/01/tesla-pickup-truck-drivers-supercharger-protest/

I hope those morons all got towed?

 

[Chuckanut]

We’ll probably need to expand nuclear power if we want to,power all those autos in a green way.

 

[Bamaman]

We’ll probably need to expand nuclear power if we want to,power all those autos in a green way.

Solar won't produce enough electricity. There's not enough steel in the world to build enough windmills to produce any appreciable amount of electricity. Only one nuclear plant has been completed in the last 20 years. And politicians have essentially tried to shut down the fossel fuel generating business.

How much diesel fuel will be required to generate the electricity to power millions of electric cars?

Electric cars would work in Europe where the cities are very compact and the people use mass transit. Those Europeans wealthy enough to own cars seldom go very far from home, and electric cars would work for them.

But American cities are often so spread out. An electric car in Atlanta area might have to be recharged twice a day. That's when hybrids would do the job.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

The world is changing. I'm glad it's happening.

 

[NW-Bound]

The EV development will be interesting to watch.

I read a recent article on Bloomberg that chronicles what a reporter went through when driving a rental Tesla from Paris to Ladenburg, Germany. The article titled "Road Tripping Around Europe in a Tesla Is Less Fun Than You’d Think" described how this distance of 534 km (332 mi) one-way requires a night stop in either direction, with a lot of range anxiety and time spent looking for an alternate charging station when an en-route Tesla charging station was out of order.

So, for EVs to be widely accepted, a lot of infrastructure has to be put in. In Aug 2018, there were 1 million EVs on the road in Europe, out of 300 million registered vehicles. That's 1/3 of 1%.

It appears to me European car makers cannot afford to lose out on the EV segment to the Chinese, and to American companies. Everybody is out spending a lot of money, but how much capital will be needed totally?

It reminds me of the broadband boom in the 2000 tech meltdown. A lot of companies ran fiber optics every which way, and across the ocean. All that dark fibers eventually got used probably, but not before many companies went bankrupt, and a couple of decades has passed.

 

[travelover]

It can't be done. We are not up to it. It is too hard. We don't need to do anything different, anyway. There are no possible alternative solutions.

 

[Christine]

We’ll probably need to expand nuclear power if we want to,power all those autos in a green way.

I have no idea myself. Some Norwegian did the maths if Norway vent all electric. We would need about 5% more electricity.

Personally I charge my EV home mostly. My last electricity bill had the usual kWh number. So me charging at home has no impact.

I live in an old house and mostly use firewood for heating in the winter. No A/C in the summer.

I read a recent article on Bloomberg that chronicles what a reporter went through when driving a rental Tesla from Paris to Ladenburg, Germany. The article titled "Road Tripping Around Europe in a Tesla Is Less Fun Than You’d Think" described how this distance of 534 km (332 mi) one-way requires a night stop in either direction, with a lot of range anxiety and time spent looking for an alternate charging station when an en-route Tesla charging station was out of order.

I can understand becoming stressed when charging stations are down. Reminds me of visiting my grandma years ago and not beeing able to return since the local gas station was closed for the night and no self serving. I did not care much since one more of grandmas delicious dinners was a great plan B.

I wonder if the journalist had driven a Tesla before? The car will inform you when superchargers are down. They also come with charging cables for other EV charging stations. And many gas stations on the Autobahn and similar have such charging stations. And shopping centres, restaurants and parking spots.

Last summer my friend and I drove around France in his Tesla Model S for a couple of weeks. Did most of our charging while eating dinner. No range anxiety.

It's popular among Norwegian Tesla owners to drive to southern Europe in the summer. I don't think it would be so popular if they had trouble charging? I will probably find out soon since I'm planning a sunbird trip myself soon.

 

[NW-Bound]

...
I wonder if the journalist had driven a Tesla before? The car will inform you when superchargers are down. They also come with charging cables for other EV charging stations. And many gas stations on the Autobahn and similar have such charging stations. And shopping centres, restaurants and parking spots.

Last summer my friend and I drove around France in his Tesla Model S for a couple of weeks. Did most of our charging while eating dinner. No range anxiety.

It's popular among Norwegian Tesla owners to drive to southern Europe in the summer. I don't think it would be so popular if they had trouble charging? I will probably find out soon since I'm planning a sunbird trip myself soon.

As the author wrote, she claimed she was no stranger to EVs, but only for city driving.

As a resident of Paris, I’ve driven plenty of electric vehicles. The city has had shared battery-powered cars since 2011, and there are charging docks in every neighborhood. But I’d only taken short rides, and I wanted to see how it felt to drive an electric car hundreds of miles from home...

She had planned to use the Tesla charging station en route, but 50 km from that station, a message popped up to tell her it became "unavailable". This, and some other mishaps made her trip less than fun.

... On a quiet Sunday morning, I head east toward the Champagne region and the German border. I don’t know it yet, but I’m entering an alternate universe in which the laws of road trips will be turned on their head. Over the next four days, I’ll spend 11 hours and 42 minutes charging—and that’s not counting failed attempts and time wasted on detours to stations—on what Google Maps tells me should be a 10-hour trip.

Attempts to charge off regular wall sockets overnight somehow failed. She purposedly rented this Tesla because it advertised the highest range among all EVs, but upon driving the computer kept adjusting the range downward (she suspected the cold temperature was an important factor). Driving around looking for charging points while the estimated range kept ticking down was stressful.

She tried to charge at a non-Tesla charging station with an instant app via her smartphone, but it rejected her request. And of course, charging via a regular Level 2 charger would be painfully slow.

The article may be behind a paywall, but somehow I got access without being a subscriber: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-road-trip/

 

[NW-Bound]

The article also mentioned that "... recent Deloitte survey showed fewer than 6 percent of European consumers are ready to go full-electric in 2019... According to a survey by Ipsos Mori, 41 percent of Germans and 36 percent of French fear not being able to top up their battery—more than twice the percentage that cited insufficient range as an impediment to buying an electric car..."

Of course, the above sentiment will change once the infrastructure gets built up. How long will that take and how much money is involved? I certainly do not know.

 

[Christine]

... On a quiet Sunday morning, I head east toward the Champagne region and the German border. I don’t know it yet, but I’m entering an alternate universe in which the laws of road trips will be turned on their head. Over the next four days, I’ll spend 11 hours and 42 minutes charging—and that’s not counting failed attempts and time wasted on detours to stations—on what Google Maps tells me should be a 10-hour trip.

Oh my - that really was a nightmare of a trip!

 

[ncbill]

Solar won't produce enough electricity. There's not enough steel in the world to build enough windmills to produce any appreciable amount of electricity. Only one nuclear plant has been completed in the last 20 years. And politicians have essentially tried to shut down the fossel fuel generating business.

How much diesel fuel will be required to generate the electricity to power millions of electric cars?

Electric cars would work in Europe where the cities are very compact and the people use mass transit. Those Europeans wealthy enough to own cars seldom go very far from home, and electric cars would work for them.

But American cities are often so spread out. An electric car in Atlanta area might have to be recharged twice a day. That's when hybrids would do the job.

Still get the most bang for the buck with a hybrid.

Choose the hybrid option ($800 extra) on a new RAV4 AWD and combined mpg goes from 29 to 39 mpg, 41 mpg city. Even at $2/gallon gasoline, a no-brainer.

 

[GR111]

What are projected impacts/ changes to energy stocks due to EVs? A lot of folks are divided investors with big stakes in energy & oil stocks.

 

[gerntz]

Nukes are the answer though fear mongering has pretty sucked the life out of them.

 

[travelover]

Nukes are the answer though fear mongering has pretty sucked the life out of them.

Which fearmongers, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island or Fukushima?

 

[NW-Bound]

France is producing 71.6% of its electricity with 58 nuclear power plants. Are they playing with [-]fire[/-] nuclear?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France.

It's interesting that they export 7% of all power that they produce. Yet, there are some rare days when they need to import some.

 

[NW-Bound]

We’ll probably need to expand nuclear power if we want to,power all those autos in a green way.

I have no idea myself. Some Norwegian did the maths if Norway vent all electric. We would need about 5% more electricity...

That 5% looks awfully low. So, I did a quick check, and it is about right. Norway is blessed with HUGE amount of hydropower. Here are some numbers.

A Web site says that in 2017, Norway produced 149 TWh (tera watt-hours), with 98% of that from hydro and other renewable energy.

Another Web site says "Norwegian vehicles were driven 44.3 billion kilometres on Norwegian and international roads in 2015..."

Assuming these are mostly passenger cars, which consume about 200 Wh/km, we are talking less than 9 TWh. That's 6% of the power production. Darn! Such lucky people.

Now, what do they use that electricity for? Everything! They use it for heating, while other countries burn natural gas for heating in the winter. Per capita consumption is 3x higher than that of other European countries.

 

[ERD50]

Which fearmongers, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island or Fukushima?

Yes, those fear mongers. Because Nuclear is the safest energy we have. Even when you include Chernobyl, which we probably shouldn't, because it was of a particularly bad design that no one else used, to make it easier to provide weapons grade uranium.

Should we stick to hydro?

... Typhoon Nina in 1975 washed out the Shimantan Dam (Henan Province, China) and 171,000 people perished.[3]

... the 1986 steam explosion at the Chernobyl nuclear reactor in the Ukraine. With approximately 4000 deaths in total, to eventually result in the decades ahead due to the radio-isotope pollution released.

there have been no direct deaths attributed to radiation at or around the Fukushima power station but a few of the plant's workers were injured or killed by the disaster conditions resulting from the earthquake and tsunami that struck the power plant which precipitated the accident. The estimated future cancer burden is a total of 180 cases in the years and decades ahead.

Solar rooftop produced many times more deaths per power produced than nuclear:

Energy source Mortality rate (in deaths/PWh)
Solar – rooftop 440[6]
Nuclear (global) 90[6]
Nuclear (US) 0.1[6]

Be careful what you wish for.

It can't be done. We are not up to it. It is too hard. We don't need to do anything different, anyway. There are no possible alternative solutions.

Instead of this attempt at sarcasm, can you provide any information on some of these apparently easy solutions? If it is so easy to provide clean energy for EVs, why aren't we doing it already for the energy we do use?

-ERD50