Baseball Banning Home Plate Collisions

[kombat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud Well, then why are all those hockey players subed after about 2 minutes on the ice.... seems their fitness is not up to snuff...

Because they're actually DOING something the entire time they're on the ice - not just standing around waiting for a teammate to eventually throw a ball at an opponent, who might or might not hit it, and if they do, in all likelihood, it'll be to another teammate rather than himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud I think that the players should play the whole game and not get a break.... more like soccer....

You just hit on one of the sports I consider MOST athletic, and for the same reason. Soccer players play the whole game, and they're moving for almost the entire time. Notice there are no fat soccer players!

Same goes for basketball. Those guys are constantly moving and are in much better shape than your average baseball player.

Can you imagine a pro baseball player trying to keep up with Kobe Bryant or David Beckett? They'd be desperately gasping for air after mere minutes!

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud Well, then why are all those hockey players subed after about 2 minutes on the ice.... seems their fitness is not up to snuff... I think that the players should play the whole game and not get a break.... more like soccer.... And if they do sub for them, heck, they can come back and play later!!! What woooses....

It's like basketball. Players use up a lot of energy in small confines and would need sub. Otherwise, quality of play will suffer.

You would be surprised how much time soccer players spend just jogging around. There is only 1 ball and 22 players. Not everyone is moving all the time. In fact, only a few players at a time is running at full speed.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kombat Same goes for basketball. Those guys are constantly moving and are in much better shape than your average baseball player. Can you imagine a pro baseball player trying to keep up with Kobe Bryant or David Beckett? They'd be desperately gasping for air after mere minutes!

I remember the best basketball player in the world trying to play baseball. His effort was worthy, but he never made it past the minor leagues. Physical reflexes needed in baseball are far superior than those in many other sports. At the level we are discussing, all sports are physically demanding and the players world class athletes. I imagine, however, they don't spend much time thinking or posting about sports they don't like and just focus on the ones they enjoy.

[Gus.]

I think this change is good. To those saying that the catcher shouldn't be able to block the plate because the runner owns the basepath, that's not true. A fielder in possession of the ball or in the act of fielding the ball or catching a throw has the right to be in the basepath. That's why Will Middlebrooks wasn't obstructing third base until he missed the throw even though he was in the runner's way while waiting for the throw to get there. The moment the ball passed him he was suddenly an obstruction, but not before then.

[steelyman]

I browbeat a guy to come to a game at Wrigley Field with me. He is from St. Louis, I am from Chicago, so that should tell you something.

He's also a player (an infielder). The best part of that game was him telling me what to watch in between innings; where the players positioned, how the pitcher was warming up, what the batters were doing.

[eytonxav]

I think this is one of the more positive changes proposed by any sport. Collisions that can result in severe injuries at home plate do not add much to a ball game in my opinion, and as Ziggy already mentioned, violators could be called out or awarded a run in the umps discretion.

That said, there will still be pitchers drilling batters and delivering good doses of chin music for the purists

[RunningBum]

I agree. If you want to watch a contact sport, go watch a football or hockey game, or a boxing or MMA match. They should get Ray Fosse's opinion as well as Pete Rose's. Fosse was the guy Rose bowled over in the all-star game. His career was never quite the same, nor as long as it probably would've been.

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud I never liked the person running at full speed, lowering their shoulder and just launching themselves into the catcher.... it just did not seem like part of the game considering that if they did that at any other base they would be ejected.... I am in favor of the ban.... to me it does not take anything away from the game...

It should be a two part change:

1. The catcher may NOT block the block or position himself on the baseline.

2. The runner may not, as you put it, "lower their shoulder and launch themselves into the catcher."

Tags and slides at home plate should look like a tag and slide at second base during a steal attempt. No blocking the bag/plate. No intentionally running into the defensive player/catcher in an attempt to dislodge the ball.

It annoys me to no end when the catcher blocks the plate, even when they don't have the ball yet, preventing the runner from sliding in. If it's OK for the catcher to block the plate, then all fielding positions should also be allowed to block their plate. For example, a team could recruit a 325# offensive lineman to play first base. His job would be to literally block the runner from reaching first, no matter what. Eventually, someone would come up with the ball and tag first base and the 325# offensive lineman could get off the base runner and let him up........

[Bestwifeever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet ... If it's OK for the catcher to block the plate, then all fielding positions should also be allowed to block their plate. For example, a team could recruit a 325# offensive lineman to play first base. His job would be to literally block the running from reaching first, no matter what. Eventually, someone would come up with the ball and tag first base and the 325# offensive lineman could get off the base runner and let him up........

I think you may have just found the solution to restoring the popularity of America's former favorite pastime.

[steelyman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever I think you may have just found the solution to restoring the popularity of America's former favorite pastime.

This sidetrack is hilarious

My favorite player was Andre "The Hawk" Dawson. He played right field for Chicago after coming from Montreal. He had a rocket arm and one time threw out a guy at first from right field. How embarrassing is that?

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever I think you may have just found the solution to restoring the popularity of America's former favorite pastime.

Actually, I was wondering what it would take to change NFL rules so that the players would be armed. One team would carry nets and spears onto the field. The other, swords and shields. At the end of the skirmish, to the delight of the cheering throngs, survivors would battle their way through dozens of hungry lions.

Half time shows might include special events such as chariot battles or "skin the captive alive" demonstrations.

I'm still mulling over baseball. Most of the players are separated by distance so weaponry would have to be different. Maybe the fans are provided with bows and arrows and a shower of arrows rains down on the outfielders from time to time? Dunno.......

Other civilizations have had fabulous success entertaining and winning the loyalty of their citizens in these ways. Should work for us.......

Oh yeah, almost forget, wine and bread would be provided to the fans at sporting events!

[GrayHare]

Prior to twenty or so years ago, catchers generally did not position themselves a few feet up the third base line while awaiting a throw to tag a runner. Prior to that time catchers had smaller masks and chest protectors. Thus the origin of this issue may be the change dring the 1990s to larger and sturdier protective gear for the catcher.

[ziggy29]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayHare Prior to twenty or so years ago, catchers generally did not position themselves a few feet up the third base line while awaiting a throw to tag a runner. Prior to that time catchers had smaller masks and chest protectors. Thus the origin of this issue may be the change dring the 1990s to larger and sturdier protective gear for the catcher.

This would be similar to the idea that head injuries got worse in the NFL when the helmets got better. Players became more fearless about using their heads and helmets as a weapon, whereas in the "leather helmet" days they shied away from getting their heads into the contact.

[steelyman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youbet I'm still mulling over baseball. Most of the players are separated by distance so weaponry would have to be different. Maybe the fans are provided with bows and arrows and a shower of arrows rains down on the outfielders from time to time? Dunno.......

That works both ways. The Cubs had a shortstop, Shawon Dunston, who was amazing. I think he later played for the Giants. But you never knew when he'd throw a ball over the first baseman and into the lower right field stands. So you had to pay attention if you were sitting there.

If you were at the game, you could watch him practicing his aim towards first in between innings.

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelyman This sidetrack is hilarious My favorite player was Andre "The Hawk" Dawson. He played right field for Chicago after coming from Montreal. He had a rocket arm and one time threw out a guy at first from right field. How embarrassing is that?

I think Bo Jackson made it famous. It was not a sure hit if batter hit a solid single in front of Bo.

[Jack_Pine]

I don't think baseball needs to take anything out of the game that brings excitement.

[mickeyd]

People complain that BB is not exciting. Now they propose removing the most exciting play in the game. Abner Doubleday spins tonight in his grave. I'm with Pete Rose on this one.

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 This would be similar to the idea that head injuries got worse in the NFL when the helmets got better. Players became more fearless about using their heads and helmets as a weapon, whereas in the "leather helmet" days they shied away from getting their heads into the contact.

Not to mention players are bigger, stronger, physically better conditioned these days since the leather helmet days.

How about tackle free soccer? In my indoor soccer days, the league didn't allow tackle and I enjoyed playing under the rule. Frankly, I needed the rule, as my aging muscle and bone could not withstand 20 something kid knocking me off balance and falling on top of me. For soccer at highest level, I think it will eventually happen. The salary/price of top league players are astronomical these days and clubs & player unions will have to keep coming up with ways to protect their $$$$ & career.

[robnplunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyd People complain that BB is not exciting. Now they propose removing the most exciting play in the game. Abner Doubleday spins tonight in his grave. I'm with Pete Rose on this one.

The most exciting play? I don't see it that way. Besides, how often does that play happen? One in how many games?

And these days, when it happens, it is not like what it was in the old days. A few I have seen recently, the players heart weren't in it. They were more like pushes than crashes and it was obvious that runners were more concerned about injury than knocking the ball loose. Some even opted to stop instead of crashing into.

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robnplunder It's like basketball. Players use up a lot of energy in small confines and would need sub. Otherwise, quality of play will suffer. You would be surprised how much time soccer players spend just jogging around. There is only 1 ball and 22 players. Not everyone is moving all the time. In fact, only a few players at a time is running at full speed.

Actually I would not be surprised... I coached a U16 team... and have watched soccer for awhile...

But, you do not see any pros that have extra fat.... they just cannot make it at that level...