Brady and the Patriots - a new ruling

[utrecht]

Interesting site. I found this link interesting. Patriots are 22 out of 32. I wonder where utrecht and RAE's and the other Hatriots favorite teams lie on this list.

The NFL's Biggest Cheaters - Your Team Cheats - The Definitive Guide to NFL Cheating

Read some of those "cheats" on that list. Its completely stupid.

 

[pb4uski]

BountyGate wasnt cheating. Nobody tried to get an advantage in the game of football. They were putting bounties for knocking people out of the game with hard hits. That is over agressive and violates administrative rules, but its not "cheating"....corking your bat, deflating balls, secretly recording the other teams practices....those are cheating

So let me see if I have this straight. A team has a program to provide cash incentives for its players to injure opposing players... there is no doubt that this was done....and that is just overly aggressive and violates administrative rules. OTOH, another team has footballs that are just under spec on a cold day and there is no direct evidence and that is cheating.

WADR, that is the most warped thing I have heard in a long time. I'd love to see a poll as to which infraction that fans think is more objectionable.

 

[utrecht]

One gives a team a competitive advantage in the game of football. The other gives players incentives to play hard. It is illegal to give cash incentives to players for knocking people out of a game but its not cheating. The players are already trying to hit other players as hard as they can. I don't condone either one, but deflating footballs for one team just like corking a bat or using stick'em on your hands (after they made it illegal) is flat out cheating.

Again I don't condone either one, but the Saints got the heaviest penalties ever handed out and Brady got off scot free. Explain how that's fair?

The NFL player conduct manual will be re-written and the next time something like this happens the player will be suspended heavily because it will be spelled out in advance. Thats the only thing the NFL screwed up on. It doesnt mean Brady was vindicated or that he didnt cheat.

 

[pb4uski]

You seem so convinced that Brady cheated despite the total lack of evidence, but we'll agree to disagree on that. I'm not convinced one way or the other, but I am convinced there is insufficient evidence that he cheated.

Where the NFL screwed up is in not having the officials control the game balls like is done in most other major sports.

 

[Corporateburnout]

You seem so convinced that Brady cheated despite the total lack of evidence

+1

I think it's futile to convince the haters....If they followed the case they would have heard NFL attorney Nash admitting to Judge Berman that they had no direct evidence of Brady's involvement in any ball deflation scheme.

 

[Corporateburnout]

I'm not "hating" on the Patriots or Brady. I'm "hating" on cheating. If Aaron Rodgers(my favorite player) did what Brady did then I would be asking for the same penalty that i'm asking for Brady to receive. Cheating and the lack of consequences is very much football related and deserves to be discussed in a football thread.

Not so quick.....Aaron Rodgers is on records to have pushed the limits on ball inflation

Aaron Rodgers Likes To Tamper With Footballs, Too

 

[pb4uski]

You don't understand though... unsubstantiated underinflation by Brady is cheating but admitted overinflation by Rodgers isn't.

 

[utrecht]

You seem so convinced that Brady cheated despite the total lack of evidence, but we'll agree to disagree on that. I'm not convinced one way or the other, but I am convinced there is insufficient evidence that he cheated.

Where the NFL screwed up is in not having the officials control the game balls like is done in most other major sports.

Total lack of evidence? Really? You have your head in the sand.

I'm a Steeler fan. When Tomlin stepped onto the field and got in the kick returner's way, I didnt do everything I could to deny it. I dont know if he did it on purpose or not. Thats debatable, but he still deserved to be fined. I dont put my head in the sand when my team screws up. Im not complaining about Le'Veon Bell getting suspended for marijuana even though it has nothing to do with football and I dont think people should be suspended for things having nothing to do with football. I dont defend the Steelers just because they are my team.

Patriots fans all have their head in the sand. The team has cheated repeatedly and been caught repeatedly. Who knows how many times theyve cheated and NOT been caught. But go ahead and continue to support cheaters just because its your favorite team. Thats your right, I guess.

 

[pb4uski]

I guess you have no concept of the meaning of agreeing to disagree.

I didn't know you are a Steeler fan. Good to know... now I'm looking forward to next Thursday even more.

Though I suppose if the Steelers lose it will only be because the Patriots somehow cheated.

 

[Midpack]

I'm not "hating" on the Patriots or Brady. I'm "hating" on cheating. If Aaron Rodgers(my favorite player) did what Brady did then I would be asking for the same penalty that i'm asking for Brady to receive. Cheating and the lack of consequences is very much football related and deserves to be discussed in a football thread.

Interesting choice. Rodgers likes the balls inflated to the max, even over-inflated, and he makes no secret of it. Just Google for many references with quotes.

Looking forward to your reply...

"(Rodgers) said something [that] was unique," Simms revealed. "[Rodgers said] 'I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.' Because he thinks it's easier for him to grip. He likes them tight."

Aaron Rodgers: Deflated footballs a 'disadvantage' for me - CBSSports.com
Aaron Rodgers prefers to play with over-inflated footballs | FOX Sports
Many more if you look...

 

[aaronc879]

Clearly the NFL should be keeping a better eye on the footballs. If there are set limitations on what psi a football can have and someone intentionally deviates from that then there should be a penalty. Whether you admit to altering the psi out of range like Rodgers, or lie and try to cover it up like Brady, there should be a penalty for it going forward. I blame the NFL for having bad policies and lack of enforcement.

 

[utrecht]

I guess you have no concept of the meaning of agreeing to disagree.

I didn't know you are a Steeler fan. Good to know... now I'm looking forward to next Thursday even more.

Though I suppose if the Steelers lose it will only be because the Patriots somehow cheated.

No, but it might be because your star player and my star player both did something wrong but your star player is playing and mine isnt. My star players "wrong" had nothing to do with football and yours directly gave him a competitive advantage, even though I seriously doubt he needed it.

That situation is a complete travesty.

 

[Midpack]

Total lack of evidence? Really? You have your head in the sand.

I'm a Steeler fan. When Tomlin stepped onto the field and got in the kick returner's way, I didnt do everything I could to deny it. I dont know if he did it on purpose or not. Thats debatable, but he still deserved to be fined. I dont put my head in the sand when my team screws up. Im not complaining about Le'Veon Bell getting suspended for marijuana even though it has nothing to do with football and I dont think people should be suspended for things having nothing to do with football. I dont defend the Steelers just because they are my team.

Patriots fans all have their head in the sand. The team has cheated repeatedly and been caught repeatedly. Who knows how many times theyve cheated and NOT been caught. But go ahead and continue to support cheaters just because its your favorite team. Thats your right, I guess.

Head in the sand? Really? While you refuse to acknowledge the documented examples of cheating by every team in the NFL. That's priceless.

And I'm curious how you know better than all the attorneys, judges, etc. who have read all the testimony, reports, analysis, etc. Somehow you know better, while willfully overlooking cheating by any other team.

I am not saying cheating is OK just because everyone does it by any means. Just that your bias is pretty obvious...

 

[Midpack]

Clearly the NFL should be keeping a better eye on the footballs. If there are set limitations on what psi a football can have and someone intentionally deviates from that then there should be a penalty. Whether you admit to altering the psi out of range like Rodgers, or lie and try to cover it up like Brady, there should be a penalty for it going forward. I blame the NFL for having bad policies and lack of enforcement.

So now it's the NFL and not Brady from your POV.

Who's your favorite player now that you know Rodgers has openly admitted tampering with footballs, deliberately pumping them up to above the psi threshold? Since you hate "cheaters" and all.

And Rodgers says deflated balls would be a disadvantage...

BTW, even though I'm a Pats fan, I think Rodgers may be the best QB playing today.

I'm not "hating" on the Patriots or Brady. I'm "hating" on cheating. If Aaron Rodgers(my favorite player) did what Brady did then I would be asking for the same penalty that i'm asking for Brady to receive. Cheating and the lack of consequences is very much football related and deserves to be discussed in a football thread.

 

[Corporateburnout]

Clearly the NFL should be keeping a better eye on the footballs. If there are set limitations on what psi a football can have and someone intentionally deviates from that then there should be a penalty. Whether you admit to altering the psi out of range like Rodgers, or lie and try to cover it up like Brady, there should be a penalty for it going forward. I blame the NFL for having bad policies and lack of enforcement.

So the moral of the story is BEFORE the NFL suspends players for ball inflation or deflation they SHOULD have had a better ball control procedure with calibrated gauges, records of before and after etc...

 

[Mulligan]

NFL: 2015 Season

Yes its wrong, but I just cant get too worked up over it. Many times a game three officials touch the ball after a single play with one launching it to sideline or back up field to set ball into play. If those "professionally trained fingers" not once noticed the balls were under inflated, then I don't consider it a huge ordeal...But what do I know, I celebrated Gaylord Perry's pitching back in the day. And oddly so did the press back then before they became the "moral compass" on everything.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MichaelB]

Why don't y'all take a breather on this and then just move on?

 

[Corporateburnout]

yours directly gave him a competitive advantage

Apparently Judge Berman disagrees with you since he asked the NFL attorney Nash to explain how Brady's second half stats when the balls were fully inflated were better than the first half.

 

[utrecht]

So the moral of the story is BEFORE the NFL suspends players for ball inflation or deflation they SHOULD have had a better ball control procedure with calibrated gauges, records of before and after etc...

No the moral is that Brady cheated and got away with on the technicality that there was nothing that specifically stated what the penalty was for his action. How is the NFL supposed to come up with a penalty for things they never imagined would happen?

What's next? A kicker puts a spring device in the top of his shoe and when he gets caught he can't be penalized because there was no specific rule about performance enhancing devices in your shoe and what the penalty is for it?

The most imaginative players could get away with things like that forever.

People get fined for wearing the wrong color shoes but no penalty for cheating? That's a joke

 

[Mulligan]

No the moral is that Brady cheated and got away with on the technicality that there was nothing that specifically stated what the penalty was for his action. How is the NFL supposed to come up with a penalty for things they never imagined would happen?



What's next? A kicker puts a spring device in the top of his shoe and when he gets caught he can't be penalized because there was no specific rule about performance enhancing devices in your shoe and what the penalty is for it?



The most imaginative players could get away with things like that forever.



People get fined for wearing the wrong color shoes but no penalty for cheating? That's a joke

No, need to...they just cheat this way...
In National Football League lore, the Snowplow Game was a regular-season game played between the Miami Dolphins and New England Patriots on December 12, 1982, at Schaefer Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts. The stadium's snowplow operator, Mark Henderson, cleared a spot on the snowy field specifically for New England kicker John Smith so he could kick the winning field goal to give the Patriots a 3–0 win.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Midpack]

No the moral is that Brady cheated and got away with on the technicality that there was nothing that specifically stated what the penalty was for his action. How is the NFL supposed to come up with a penalty for things they never imagined would happen?

What's next? A kicker puts a spring device in the top of his shoe and when he gets caught he can't be penalized because there was no specific rule about performance enhancing devices in your shoe and what the penalty is for it?

The most imaginative players could get away with things like that forever.

People get fined for wearing the wrong color shoes but no penalty for cheating? That's a joke

And Rodgers overinflating the balls should be handled how?

 

[aaronc879]

It looks like they already have changed the rules for psi. All balls now have to be at 13psi.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/nfl-footballs-inflated-13-psi-2015-article-1.2318248

 

[Corporateburnout]

No, need to...they just cheat this way...
In National Football League lore, the Snowplow Game was a regular-season game played between the Miami Dolphins and New England Patriots on December 12, 1982, at Schaefer Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts. The stadium's snowplow operator, Mark Henderson, cleared a spot on the snowy field specifically for New England kicker John Smith so he could kick the winning field goal to give the Patriots a 3–0 win.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I was at that game and Mark Henderson was on a work release from the local prison and I remembered his comments after the game " what were the going to do throw me in jail?"

 

[Mulligan]

Deflatgate, Spygate, "The Tuck", The Snow Plow game. The Pats get all the fun dont they! If you were a Pats fan Corporate, I bet you got a kick out of it! Coach Shula blew a gasket from what I read. I remember the game but only the highlight. Of course on a 3-0 game that was the highlight!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[pb4uski]

No, but it might be because your star player and my star player both did something wrong but your star player is playing and mine isnt. My star players "wrong" had nothing to do with football and yours directly gave him a competitive advantage, even though I seriously doubt he needed it.

That situation is a complete travesty.

I concede that what your star player did had nothing to do with football, it nonetheless violated the rules and I assume that there was a blood test or something of the like to provide direct evidence that the rule had been violated so there is not much room to object (other than to whether there should be a rule outlawing marijuana use by NFL players).

OTOH, according to NFL lawyers there is no direct evidence that Brady tampered with footballs or encouraged others to.

According to reporters present, Berman “repeatedly” asked Nash what direct evidence the league possesses linking Brady to a plot to surreptitiously deflate footballs below the league-minimum level, prior to the Jan. 18 AFC title game against Indianapolis.

Nash said “maybe the most direct evidence” came during Brady’s and the union’s unsuccessful appeal in June, heard by commissioner Goodell. Specifically, when Brady testified that the two implicated Patriots equipment handlers would never have deflated footballs on their own.

That’s when Berman asked, apparently incredulously, “Is that it?!?!”

Responded the NFL’s lawyer, per Ben Volin of the Boston Globe:

“The lack of a smoking gun does not mean there’s not a lack of culpability. Maybe it’s not direct evidence, but those text messages (of Brady’s) were not produced, (his) cell phone was destroyed, and it’s clearly reasonable to infer that there’s further evidence of culpability.”

Berman kept grilling Nash until the lawyer admitted, finally, that the league had no direct evidence “for that specific game” that there was any plot by anyone on the Patriots to deflate air from footballs.

Edited to add link to full article: http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/08/...to-judge-no-direct-evidence-against-tom-brady