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Bread - How long to let it rise?
Old 03-04-2018, 10:23 AM   #1
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Bread - How long to let it rise?

Attention home bakers......

I enjoy cooking and I like bread. Since I am on what I call a "lower carb' diet I don't eat bread as often as I used to. Thus, when I do eat it I want it to be very good, if you're going to eat the forbidden fruit it might as well be very tasty, right?

How long do you let the bread dough rise? Do you use the fast rising bead yeasts? Regular yeast? I have heard that some people put the dough in the fridge and let it rise for 12 to 24 hours as this improves the flavor. Has anybody found this to be true?

For what it's worth, I tend to make my bread using a 50/50 mixture of white unbleached general purpose flour and whole wheat flour. What ratio do you use when you want the benefits of whole wheat in your bread?

I have also heard that kneading bread in a machine, like a Kitchen Aid is a mistake as it gets 'over kneaded'. Any truth to this? I certainly don't need over kneaded bread.
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Old 03-04-2018, 11:24 AM   #2
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I’m not an expert, but I have learnt that the rising time is a complex interaction between the characteristics of the yeast, the flour and the ambient temperature.

For example, I always add warm water to make sure my yeast is alive. This avoids later disappointment and wasting ingredients. Sometimes I kill the yeast with water that is too hot! I just use regular yeast.

My kitchen is relatively cool, so sometimes the dough does not rise “in a warm place”. Before I start baking, I now turn on my oven to the minimum temperature (170 F) and as soon as it has reached that temperature, I turn it off. That’s where I incubate the dough.

In general, “no-knead” doughs need 12-18 hours to double in size, whereas kneaded doughs need an hour or two. I recently acquired a Kitchenaid mixer and my first recipe, a batch of cinnamon rolls, turned out beautifully. I only used setting number 2, cut down on the kneading time recommended in the recipe and stopped kneading as soon as the dough was pulling away cleanly from the sides of the bowl.
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Old 03-04-2018, 11:41 AM   #3
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I'm lazy so only make "no work bread". It rises overnight. Jim Lahey's No-Work Bread Recipe inside Bittman's iPad Cooking App
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:08 PM   #4
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I'm lazy so only make "no work bread". It rises overnight. Jim Lahey's No-Work Bread Recipe inside Bittman's iPad Cooking App
Even lazier and let my bread rise in the supermarket isle.

But to add a bit to this discussion, we freeze all but a few slices. Bread seems to come out nicely after defrosting.

Hats off to those that DIY bread.
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:23 PM   #5
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There is no truth to the over-kneading. Yes, you can do it, but it would take a very long time. If you knead in a stand mixer for 6-7 minutes, there is no danger of over-kneading.

If you're using a food-processor, be careful. start with 10 seconds till the dough comes together. Let it rest for 5 minutes and then another 30 seconds will do it. The danger is in overheating the dough and killing the yeast. Use ice-cold water if using a food-processor.

The time required for your dough to rise depends on the temperature. Typically, you want the volume to double. That's a better indication than time. For me, time works out to anywhere from 60 to 90 minutes. In the winter, I'll let it rise in the sun near the patio door.

Lahey's no-knead breads are very forgiving and very tasty. I've made this bread with up to 1/3rd whole wheat and it works really well. Use bread flour for the rest or King Arthur's General Purpose (which has more protein than the average GP flour). Experiment with flour proportions once you've made a few loaves. The dough is sticky, but very forgiving (ie it won't deflate), so don't be afraid to try it.
Start here
New York Times No-Knead Bread Recipe - Genius Kitchen

I think I'm going to go start a loaf! Enjoy.
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:25 PM   #6
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50/50 wheat/white is a pretty high. Most "wheat" bread recipes call for 1/3 or less wheat flour. More is probably healthier, but harder to make it come out well. The loaf will tend to be denser. Add a tablespoon or so of gluten to help the texture.

PS: "bread machine flour" is just what used to be called "high gluten flour" before gluten became a 4-letter word. I always add a little gluten to my regular flour for bread.

The secret to using wheat is to add the wheat flour after the liquid ingredients and let it sit for 1/2 hour or more. The idea is to let the wheat flour soak up the liquids. Then add the rest of the ingredients and proceed as normal. That's pretty much what the "wheat" setting on a bread maker does.

The longer you let it rise (up to a point) and the more rises you do, the lighter the bread will be. Look for a warm spot to let it rise. On top of the fridge works for me in the winter. Heat rises, plus the fridge discharges warm air from the coils.

I haven't done the overnight in the fridge trick, but it'll probably work. And I don't know about over-kneading, since lately I either use the bread machine "dough" cycle, or (not as much lately) knead by hand.

Edit: Looking forward to hearing others' tips on bread making. I made soft pretzels the other day. They tasted great, but I was very disappointed with the texture of the dough from the recipe I ended up using. The ropes would fall apart trying to shape them. Maybe it needed more gluten although I suspect it was just not a good recipe.
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #7
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Interesting info, thanks. Been working to perfect my sourdough bread recipe. First had to learn how to care for the 100 year old starter I was given. Gets better every time.
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:43 PM   #8
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Rising time depends a lot on how much and which yeast you are using - active or instant.

Sounds like you're wanting loaf bread...?

I like no-knead artisan breads and learned a lot from this guy on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/user/artisan...hstev/featured

If you look, he does have some recipes that include whole wheat and some that add other types of wheat.

Show us your results if you care to.

Here's mine: http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ml#post1888885
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
Attention home bakers......

I enjoy cooking and I like bread. Since I am on what I call a "lower carb' diet I don't eat bread as often as I used to. Thus, when I do eat it I want it to be very good, if you're going to eat the forbidden fruit it might as well be very tasty, right?

How long do you let the bread dough rise? Do you use the fast rising bead yeasts? Regular yeast? I have heard that some people put the dough in the fridge and let it rise for 12 to 24 hours as this improves the flavor. Has anybody found this to be true?

For what it's worth, I tend to make my bread using a 50/50 mixture of white unbleached general purpose flour and whole wheat flour. What ratio do you use when you want the benefits of whole wheat in your bread?

I have also heard that kneading bread in a machine, like a Kitchen Aid is a mistake as it gets 'over kneaded'. Any truth to this? I certainly don't need over kneaded bread.
Slow rises are better, IMO, so ditch any rapid rise yeast. I baked bread for many years and the time depended on the recipe. A French style bread made with a sponge type starter came out the best because the slow rises developed the most flavor. I’ve even let bread rise overnight in the fridge. Not even freezing kills yeast.

You don’t need warmth for bread to rise, just patience.

I don’t eat bread or any gluten stuff anymore.

The white whole wheat from King Arthur flour has better flavor than regular whole wheat, IMO. Much less bitter, but still whole wheat.

No - you can beat the hell out of the dough and it won’t get overkneaded.
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Old 03-05-2018, 09:17 AM   #10
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Thanks to all. I learned new stuff!

In the next few weeks I am going to make a loaf of no-knead bread with 30% whole wheat and see how it goes.

Even my worst home-made breads are better than the store bought stuff, even the so-called artisan breads sold at my local supermarket.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:35 AM   #11
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I have gotten into doing the lazy, no-knead bread thing. I started by checking out the book Josey Baker Bread from the library. Great recipes, but an annoying writing style. Look for books by Peter Reinhart as well. Another source of this technique is this website: https://artisanbreadinfive.com; this team published several books as well.

Basically, you make an overnight yeast starter then mix in flour and water the next day. You don't knead it, but do "stretch and folds" which is simply grabbing a piece of the dough in the bowl, stretching it up and folding it over. Go around the perimeter of the bowl about ten folds to make one circuit, and do it every thirty minutes for about 2 hours. Total time is maybe fifteen minutes of effort.

My basic recipe for two loaves is:

For the starter (the night before):

1 cup water
1.5 cups whole wheat flour
0.5 tsp dry active yeast (yes, that's 1/2 teaspoon for two loaves)

Mix it up well, put a loose(!) piece of plastic wrap or a plate on top, and go to bed.

For the dough (the next morning):

2 cups water
5 cups bread flour
1 tbsp salt (this is a bit less than some recipes, and is to my individual taste)

Mix well. Leave it alone for 30 minutes. Do a stretch-and-fold on the half-hour for about 2 hours. Do a few more or less, depending on how busy or lazy you feel. At first it will look like a shaggy mess, but it will turn into a pretty wet dough. Probably wetter than you're used to if you haven't used this method before.

Let it rise until about doubled. This usually takes mine about 3 hours, but can be much longer or a bit shorter depending on temperature.

Refrigerate, covered loosely, overnight (at least) to develop more flavor. Or go ahead and shape loaves if you're hungry. It's supposed to keep for at least a week, but I can never let it go that long.

NO PUNCHING DOWN! You want to handle the dough a bit carefully to retain as much of the gas as possible that the dear little yeasties have given up their lives for.

On baking day, divide the dough in half, shape loaves, cover with Al foil and let rise for a few hours. I spray the pans and foil with cooking spray to prevent sticking. You can also make a freeform loaf and bake on a stone (with a water source in the oven, such as a baking pan with water, a spray bottle every few minutes, etc.) or in a dutch oven.

Bake at 450 F for 40 minutes, removing the foil after 20.


Refer to the books above, their web sites, youtube, etc. for better descriptions. It's a lot of fun for me, fairly easy, and delicious! And cheap.
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Old 03-05-2018, 10:56 AM   #12
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...

How long do you let the bread dough rise?....
Stick your finger in it—if the indentation remains, it’s risen.
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