Chip and signature cards

[Alan]

I'm not sure if that is true as our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card still has the magnetic strip on it and that is how it used most of the time here in the states. The only place that has the chip reader functional that I can recall is Walmart, everywhere else it works like a regular card.

We recently had a fraudulent transaction on our Chase Sapphire Chip & Signature card after traveling to Ireland a few months ago. They used it for an online purchase so the chip part didn't add any securty.

Our cards are actually made out of metal with the chip embedded in it. They provided a prepaid envelope to send back the cancelled cards to be destroyed. So I'm sure the issuers are also looking at the cost of providing and servicing those cards vs. the cost of the losses to fraud using the cheaper plastic cards without a chip.

The magnetic strip is still a big vulnerability, as is handing it over to be taken out back where the numbers can be copied manually.

I have the security code on the back obliterated and kept elsewhere (actually I put it on another card in my wallet). Without that code it should be impossible to make on-line purchases (I did this after someone stole and used my card details to create an Amazon account and buy stuff in 2012)

 

[haha]

Yes, especially since US customers have been using debit cards with pins for over a decade.

The bank executives are lying. What the banks really want is to maintain the higher fees associated with processing signature transactions.

+1

 

[explanade]

I believe transaction fees are a factor in the type of verification the US banks are preferring.

But they can set the priority so that it offers chip and pin on those kiosks and requires signature everywhere else.

That's how the Barclay's Arrival Plus MasterCard is set up. So most of the time, it's going to get signature processing.

What I would be interested in is a card which can support chip and PIN, have no FX fees and has no annual fees.

These chipped cards are going first on premium cards most of which carry annual fees.

 

[SteveNU]

The magnetic strip is still a big vulnerability, as is handing it over to be taken out back where the numbers can be copied manually.

I have the security code on the back obliterated and kept elsewhere (actually I put it on another card in my wallet). Without that code it should be impossible to make on-line purchases (I did this after someone stole and used my card details to create an Amazon account and buy stuff in 2012)

I wonder if the security code is part of the data contained in the strip?

I do like your idea of hiding the security code though. It should make it that much harder for someone to swipe your info.

 

[audreyh1]

I believe transaction fees are a factor in the type of verification the US banks are preferring.

But they can set the priority so that it offers chip and pin on those kiosks and requires signature everywhere else.

That's how the Barclay's Arrival Plus MasterCard is set up. So most of the time, it's going to get signature processing.

What I would be interested in is a card which can support chip and PIN, have no FX fees and has no annual fees.

These chipped cards are going first on premium cards most of which carry annual fees.

The PenFed cards - certain cards are chip and PIN, no annual fee, no foreign fee, if you have deposits with them. Their Cash Rewards VISA worked for me. Alan had trouble.

But I actually use my BofA Travel Rewards VISA (chip and signature, no fees) for most of my transactions overseas, as it gives me 1.5% rewards back. I just use the PenFed for 5% back on gas, and when I run into an automated kiosk overseas.

 

[Alan]

The PenFed cards - certain cards are chip and PIN, no annual fee, no foreign fee, if you have deposits with them. Their Cash Rewards VISA worked for me. Alan had trouble.

But I actually use my BofA Travel Rewards VISA for most of my transactions overseas, as it gives me 1.5% rewards back. I just use the PenFed for 5% back on gas, and when I run into an automated kiosk overseas.

My Penfed Platinum Rewards card is CHIP and Signature and has no foreign transaction fees. Rewards include Debit cash card and Amazon e-gift card which I generally claim on the points as we spend plenty on Amazon.

I compared rates while abroad this year and it really is market exchange rates, no extra fees. Apart from the lack of a PIN I am very pleased with it.

 

[Lsbcal]

Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?

 

[MRG]

I wonder if the security code is part of the data contained in the strip?

I do like your idea of hiding the security code though. It should make it that much harder for someone to swipe your info.

From what I read, yes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Jack_Pine]

Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?

Good question....................................

 

[Helen]

I just called PenFed and was told that all of their cards are now PIN and chip. I was also told that I could not change the PIN.

 

[rodi]

I just called PenFed and was told that all of their cards are now PIN and chip. I was also told that I could not change the PIN.

That is good to hear. Although I'm not sure I believe it. Can someone test it out for me. (Only half kidding) I think Alan was told the same thing - but found out the hard way it wasn't true. So our data points right now are 50/50 - Audrey had confirmed chip and pin, Alan has confirmed NOT chip and pin, despite having the card replaced a few times.

I looked into Andrews FCU - which is widely confirmed to have true chip & pin. Turns out you can join Andrews even if you're not/never been military... You need to pay $5 to join a consumer organization, (American Consumer Association?) and that qualifies you. I already have an account at Penfed (used the redcross volunteer thing to join there - not bad - work a blood drive and qualify) - so I'd prefer to do the PenFed option.

 

[Alan]

Alan, how did you remove the code? Did you scratch it off? Has any merchant questioned you about slightly defacing the card?

Scratching and then some white touch-up car paint to cover it up. Never been questioned about it. Handing it over to a merchant, they don't need it, it exists only for not-in-person transactions to "prove" you physically have the card as that number is not stored (or supposed to be stored) in on-line systems that may have been hacked. An in-person transaction is where they are supposed to check the signature or your picture id, and on-line or by phone where they are supposed to check the security number.

 

[Alan]

I just called PenFed and was told that all of their cards are now PIN and chip. I was also told that I could not change the PIN.

Good luck Helen, that was they kept telling me but they never got it right. Here is a typical email between us.

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...dit-cards-for-europe-71593-7.html#post1457881

That was May last year and that was my 3rd attempt to get CHIP and PIN. Best of luck, and I think if get a system generated PIN that can't be changed then you may have struck gold.

 

[enginerd]

I'll miss signing my reciepts...err rather...I usually make my 4 year old sign for me. I always get strange looks, but no one ever challenges me. If my 4 year old isn't with me the signature line usually gets a big "X" or maybe if i'm in a good mood it gets a wavy line.

 

[Helen]

Good luck Helen, that was they kept telling me but they never got it right. Here is a typical email between us.

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...dit-cards-for-europe-71593-7.html#post1457881

That was May last year and that was my 3rd attempt to get CHIP and PIN. Best of luck, and I think if get a system generated PIN that can't be changed then you may have struck gold.

It is very possible he didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe he was referring to the chip and not the PIN.

Is the PIN encoded in the chip? I was wondering why he said I would not be able to change the PIN.

 

[Lsbcal]

Scratching and then some white touch-up car paint to cover it up. Never been questioned about it. Handing it over to a merchant, they don't need it, it exists only for not-in-person transactions to "prove" you physically have the card as that number is not stored (or supposed to be stored) in on-line systems that may have been hacked. An in-person transaction is where they are supposed to check the signature or your picture id, and on-line or by phone where they are supposed to check the security number.

I took the plunge and scratched off the 3 digit code. On the Chase Sapphire it's a raised set of numbers. Underneath appeared the letters "OID" (for perhaps Online ID?). In my wallet I carry a little paper with some codes, so just added this to that sheet. I'm going to feel a lot better about giving the card to a waiter who disappears with it.

 

[Alan]

It is very possible he didn't know what he was talking about. Maybe he was referring to the chip and not the PIN.

Is the PIN encoded in the chip? I was wondering why he said I would not be able to change the PIN.

I think you are correct, and it was not just one person, it was 3 different folks over a 6 month period as I applied for and got my first CHIP & notPIN in the Fall of 2013 when they first came out. Over a year later I would expect that you have a very good shot at getting the card you need.

Yes, the PIN is encoded on the CHIP, which has a CPU not just memory, and in Europe I believe it is possible to change it at a bank that has a machine that can re-code the PIN on the CHIP.

 

[Alan]

Info here on changing your PIN in the UK, at an ATM providing "PIN services"

Can I change my PIN? | Barclays


I expect it will be a long while before such options appear in the USA

 

[braumeister]

I looked into Andrews FCU - which is widely confirmed to have true chip & pin. Turns out you can join Andrews even if you're not/never been military... You need to pay $5 to join a consumer organization, (American Consumer Association?) and that qualifies you.

The chip&PIN card was the only reason I opened an account at Andrews. I've been pleased with it (no foreign transaction charge is a big reason), but as noted here, it won't work at places in Europe that simply don't honor non-Euro cards.

 

[6miths]

I like the idea of scratching off the 3 digit code on the back.

We've had chip and PIN cards in Canada for awhile. I like them and I think that most do. One of the nice things is that in restaurants your card never leaves you. The POS terminal comes to you, you insert the card or just wave it over the terminal ('tap'), ok the amount and enter a tip as an amount or a percent depending on your preference.

One can definitely change the PIN - at a terminal at the bank, online or by phone. Not being able to remember a four digit PIN? That's a joke right?

 

[Chuckanut]

Not being able to remember a four digit PIN? That's a joke right?

Sadly, No. It's actually the jokers who run US banks.

 

[audreyh1]

Good luck Helen, that was they kept telling me but they never got it right. Here is a typical email between us.

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...dit-cards-for-europe-71593-7.html#post1457881

That was May last year and that was my 3rd attempt to get CHIP and PIN. Best of luck, and I think if get a system generated PIN that can't be changed then you may have struck gold.

I accepted the system generated PIN instead of requesting my own.

Also, I used it for a least one transaction with signature overseas before trying to use it in an automated kiosk because I had read a couple of times that was important? I don't know if it's actually true.

 

[audreyh1]

I like the idea of scratching off the 3 digit code on the back.

We've had chip and PIN cards in Canada for awhile. I like them and I think that most do. One of the nice things is that in restaurants your card never leaves you. The POS terminal comes to you, you insert the card or just wave it over the terminal ('tap'), ok the amount and enter a tip as an amount or a percent depending on your preference.

One can definitely change the PIN - at a terminal at the bank, online or by phone. Not being able to remember a four digit PIN? That's a joke right?

There is nothing preventing someone bringing out a terminal to a table in the US. Current (magnetic stripe) cards work just fine. I've occasionally used such a thing in the US. It's really retail resistance to change.

 

[Chuckanut]

Also, I used it for a least one transaction with signature overseas before trying to use it in an automated kiosk because I had read a couple of times that was important? I don't know if it's actually true.

My supposed chip and pin card had instructions to do exactly that. Use it one time in a foreign country as a chip and signature card and from then on it could be used as a chip and pin card. Alas, it never worked once as a chip and pin card even though it was a chip and signature card over and over and over again.

 

[Lsbcal]

There is nothing preventing someone bringing out a terminal to a table in the US. Current (magnetic stripe) cards work just fine. I've occasionally used such a thing in the US. It's really retail resistance to change.

I've often marveled at the lack of this simple method at restaurants. I suppose it would require good secure communications between the waiter's device and the server. But the Europeans seem to easily handle this.

I recall reading years ago that this would be here in the near future but we've all read about coming new things that never arrive.