College tuition: How much is too much?

[copyright1997reloaded]

OP, your son has an impressive GPA and has shown that he is academically strong.

I'm certainly in the camp of most here, i.e. it is important to get a degree that leads to a good job, that where you go to graduate school is more important than the undergraduate degree (for those fields that require a graduate degree), that community college can be a great way to lower costs (especially if your child can live at home and that time can be used to more fully mature).

Having said that, in reading the posts here I also get the feeling that the community advice here is not typical of what one would get in a more generalized setting. This community has (at least on average) a much more practical, dare I say it LBYM mentality than the general population. I'd bet that your same post in some other place would result in responses that are much more oriented to the "Let your son pursue his dream" kind of response. Maybe we here are just too practical.

 

[ocean view]

I'd bet that your same post in some other place would result in responses that are much more oriented to the "Let your son pursue his dream" kind of response. Maybe we here are just too practical.

I agree. I told DS that as a mom I want to give him whatever he wants. But as an accountant, the practical side of me takes over.

 

[fasteddie911]

My son has a 4.2 GPA, 32 ACT (and, if I may brag, was reading before age 2 and has a photographic memory). Until this year’s AP Calculus AB class, he hasn’t ever struggled at anything. He’s had to work, but not struggled. He will finish HS with at least 6, but fingers crossed 7 AP class credits. I consider that academically strong.

Those are strong numbers. I feel like he would've had a good shot at some of the other UC schools. With his list of schools I got the impression that UW was a reach school, but I don't think it was. I still think that saving money for undergrad and splurging on grad school may be better, and/or transfer midway. Don't forget to consider tuition savings due to AP credits.

 

[MarieIG]

I know several parents and one grandmother who are paying the kids student loans. None of them planned on that happening, it just turned out the kids did not make sufficient money to cover the loans. Oh, and the kids couldn't get the loans in the first place without co-signers.

The grandmother is paying the loans back out of her social security.

I would stretch the 529 money as far as possible, and there is great deal of opportunity to cut costs in undergrad.

 

[Katsmeow]

In addition to the cost of UW what concerns me is a 16 yo is adjusting to large lecture classes and living in dorms/ fraternities with older students. Socially he will have difficulty fitting in.

This really depends on the kid (and I think she said he will soon turn 17 anyway). When my son started college (CC living at home) when he had just turned 17, I think that socially it was better for him than high school (small private school) had been. Yes, it did get easier about the last semester that he was 17. He is in his mid-20s now and he is still friends with some of the group that he hung out with at school. (People always say you don't make lasting social contacts at a CC but DS did). Sure, there were things he couldn't do with friends when he was 16

But -- college is not just about social stuff. It is also about education. Having him hang around high school another two years wouldn't have helped. I guarantee you that in many ways he didn't have much in common with the kids his age who were still in 10th grade.

Some really gifted kids do fine socially in college. Others don't. Depends on the kid, not the age. But -- kids who are really gifted may have a lot of trouble socially with their age peers as well. Sometimes it is hard to find a place where there is a good social fit. In that situation, then maybe at least getting the education part works.

 

[bclover]

I think you can't go wrong making decisions like you would in a business project. Look at factors like job demand outlook, salary potential, ROI, pay back period, etc. All those numbers are online and free on sites like - Payscale reports by major and college, College Scorecard and the Job Outlook Handbook.

I don't know anything about psychology majors but $250K could buy a house in many parts of the country. Community college plus 2 years at San Jose State at ~$8K tuition per year in computer engineering would lead to a $93K median starting salary (2016 - 2017 figures).

The problem I have with this assumption is that people here assume that every kid on the planet can easily become an engineer or a computer geek.


So let me ask, what happens to all the other kids who don't want to be engineers? Oh well kid, too bad? sucks for you?

 

[rayinpenn]

<b>Fishingmn:

“2nd child, DS, was always a little lax in his focus on education. We like to say in elementary his favorite 2 subjects were recess and lunch.”</b>

Thanks for the morning chuckle..

 

[ugeauxgirl]

The problem I have with this assumption is that people here assume that every kid on the planet can easily become an engineer or a computer geek.


So let me ask, what happens to all the other kids who don't want to be engineers? Oh well kid, too bad? sucks for you?

I don't think that's it. I think as adults we have a very different view of the importance of a college education. I have no idea where most of my colleagues went to college. At this point, it's job competence that matters. In many professions, the college you went to matters a great deal less than your knowledge, experience and work ethic.

If I'm footing the bill, I want to be sure that my son's attend a college where they learn what they need to in order to be successful in their chosen career, and id rather not pay too much for it.

All DS knows about colleges is what he hears from friends, us, all those pretty pamphlets, and the recruiter. he doesn't have perspective.

 

[ivinsfan]

The problem I have with this assumption is that people here assume that every kid on the planet can easily become an engineer or a computer geek.


So let me ask, what happens to all the other kids who don't want to be engineers? Oh well kid, too bad? sucks for you?

Or kids that just don't have the skills it takes to become an engineer. One of my nephews drifted through HS and then college playing sports. He didn't have a firm direction, is now a wonderful HS teacher. He choose an underserved district to get his loans reduced because he ended up needing to do 5 years. He's mentoring and making a positive contribution to life of so many at risk kids.

Another one of my favorite throw off lines is that kids that are struggling to find purpose should join the military and that will straighten them out. Excuse me, an Army brat I can tell you DON'T join the Army because you don't know what else to do.

Hopefully as everyone reaches adulthood, they will find the thing they feel comfortable at and puts food on the table.

 

[RunningBum]

My son has a 4.2 GPA, 32 ACT (and, if I may brag, was reading before age 2 and has a photographic memory). Until this year’s AP Calculus AB class, he hasn’t ever struggled at anything. He’s had to work, but not struggled. He will finish HS with at least 6, but fingers crossed 7 AP class credits. I consider that academically strong.

That's great, but I found having a really good memory was also a bit of a curse. I think I didn't work as hard to understand concepts because I could glide by most tests on my memory. Even with advanced math I could remember how to solve almost any type of problem without really getting the concepts. I was lucky enough to find a niche that I could become an expert in using the same methods, and it lasted long enough to get to ER. Hopefully your son understands concepts as well.

 

[ncbill]

I know several parents and one grandmother who are paying the kids student loans. None of them planned on that happening, it just turned out the kids did not make sufficient money to cover the loans. Oh, and the kids couldn't get the loans in the first place without co-signers.

The grandmother is paying the loans back out of her social security.

The kids don't qualify for income-based repayment or other types of forgiveness?

They can also use military service for loan repayment:

https://www.military.com/education/money-for-school/student-loan-repayment.html

 

[daylatedollarshort]

The problem I have with this assumption is that people here assume that every kid on the planet can easily become an engineer or a computer geek.


So let me ask, what happens to all the other kids who don't want to be engineers? Oh well kid, too bad? sucks for you?

I just gave one example of a high ROI school / major in that post. A "dirty job" and a $250K mortgage free home in a low cost of living area could lead to a pretty financially secure life. If you read my other posts, I said in majors with low income potential, if you are looking at ROI or pay back period, a good value school becomes an even more important consideration. We have one young adult kid of each type and if all goes according to plan, both will be very financially secure, each in their own way.

 

[haha]

I’m curious: what is so appealing about the UW?

Cherry blossoms.

 

[imoldernu]

Just a comment... Anyone who is looking at college, who hasn't spent a least an hour on this website, may have wasted time, dollars and possibly a chance at the best education and future for themselves or their loved one.

https://www.niche.com/

Just an example... College costs are typically shown as the gross cost. The actual costs can be far less, due to grants, scholarships, or other supplements. As an example... my College, Bowdoin, has an annual full cost of over $62,000, while the average student cost is really about $24,000, because of scholarships and grants. The alumni endowment for this small school, is over two billion dollars... The student help is not based on need, but potential.

The college policy... Other colleges use the same parameter.

A family’s ability to pay is not a barrier to admission. We do all that we can to ensure that nothing stands between you and your potential success as a college student—starting with need-blind admissions.

 

[chrave1956]

Millennials problem ... their parents

The question posed by a millennials’ parent is precisely the problem with today’s generation...everything is being done by their parents ! Is this kid too lazy or dumb to find this out for himself ... after all they stare at that iPhone all day , no info there ?

 

[rodi]

I didn't read all the replies - but did read several pages. Here are my thoughts - based on the fact that I have a HS Senior and a HS Sophomore.

We did a big 'college tour' family vacation 2 summers ago. From San Diego up to WA state... Including UW. UW looked like a great school but wasn't WUE (scholarships for students in nearby western states that make it more like in-state.) All the other Washington State public schools were WUE. One of the questions we learned to ask on the campus tours was 'how many years does it take to get a bachelors.'.... UW flunked this with an average of 5 years to get a '4 year degree'.

UCSD was the HARDEST UC to get into this year - harder than Cal Berkeley and UCLA. 118,372 applicants. Literally NO students from my kids very academic IB high school were accepted outright.... many were waitlisted. This included one of my son's closest friends who had a 1500 SAT and straight A's in weighted courses, eagle scout, etc....

SDSU (my alma mater for undergrad) also set records in applicants... this is the new trend - they've had over 80k applicants for the past 4 years - with 94k applicants this year. It's no longer the 'safety school' it used to be.

My son is waitlisted for UCSC and Cal Poly SLO... in the meantime he accepted at Cal Poly Pomona... Not the prettiest place in the world - but a good school.

My son still dreams of UCSD... We've suggested he ace his first two years at CPP, then apply as a transfer student. I'm hoping he is ready for college... not really sure he is. As his mom, it's my job to advise, encourage... and pick him up when he fails... which he may. (2ndCor's posts resonated for me.)

As for the ROI considerations - it has to be part of the plan. We were clear from the get go that we had 529's enough to cover a California UC or CSU school and dorm. Private schools needed scholarships to cover the difference. We also said, from an early age, that the goal of higher education wasn't just "learning for the sake of learning" - it was to have an end result of the kid being able to support themselves. If they want to do a less employable major - the 529 funds could be shifted to their sibling. Tough love - but it's the same deal my dad gave me... which led me to engineering and a career I mostly enjoyed. Older son is looking at Chem Engineering... had been looking at straight chem till he realized there were more job opportunities with just a bachelor with chem eng.

It's funny among my son's peers... All of the parents are talking to each other, asking about if their kids have decided - and many of the kids are NOT talking to their parents... Only about half have made their decisions.

 

[Tyrone]

If the kid needs a Master's or PhD to have a viable career in that field, strongly suggest he do the undergrad work in-state and spend that kind of money on the graduate work.

Personally, there is no way I'd spend 250K on a degree that left one of my kids unemployable in their field without further education.

+1.
As one in the field with a masters and a couple of those licences, I would recommend cheap but educationally competitive undergrad, then spend the dough on the name brand grad school. Grades from a decent undergrad school gets one to grad school in this field, then grad school is what gets you the gig.
Good Luck!

 

[isisdave]

If you don't already know the answer to "what kind of job opportunities are there for this career path, and what advanced degrees do you need to get them," you haven't done enough homework. This is like taking a job without asking what the salary is. It's EXACTLY like doing that!

I am not familiar with jobs in psychological research. I'm guessing that there are not many, that they're at big universities or related institutes, and they require a PhD, which, along with its cost, also will delay start of earnings by a couple of years.

To me, "psych research" sounds a lot like "art history." In other words, rewarding if it interests you, but you're not gonna get rich, and better know the difference between grande and venti.

None of this is meant to denigrate your son's intelligence or drive or career interest, but you sound like you're wanting to make a quantitative, rather than qualitative, decision. And in general, here's my advice for educational career:

* go to a local community college for the first two years. Live at home if you can; if there's a CC that has a special program you'd like to attend, go there.

* after that, consider a great state university. Anything UC, SUNY, etc, or equivalent. Get a BS, preferably in something that requires research capability, but not necessarily psych. Math. Statistics.

* Then, if the career interest is unchanged, get a Master's, while working, hopefully in a university-provided job.

 

[judgejkh]

Choose a good school, lowest cost possible, save 529

I concur with the others who've advised to get a bachelor degree at the least expensive choice that he wants to attend! If possible, preserve the money in the 529 for grad school as the price tag will be out the roof!

Two things to consider, he may change his mind once he starts exploratory courses. Second, his first couple of years should be grounded in mostly generally studies so he needs to attend a school where courses will transfer easily (in the event he chooses to transfer schools). Both of these events happen with young students.

I'm in the same situation with my son but he's chosen one of the state universities with a goal of a masters in engineering or law school. Of course, his mind is subject to change too. With his scholarship to the state university, hopefully, we'll be able to preserve his 529 money for grad school.

Best of luck to your son on his new adventure!

 

[Canoeboy]

My 2nd and last child just wrapped up his first year at a public 4 year liberal arts school. He is studying Neuroscience and Psychology and plans to go to graduate studies. One month into his first year he was able to join a Neuroscience research team and has secured a paid summer research position in that lab. Should note that child #1 also wanted research opportunities, however, she could not get despite the school marketing these opportunities (only available to financial aid students).
Couple of thoughts:

1) Getting involved in a research team while an undergrad is a huge plus to complement formal studies and is very attractive to grad schools, especially if they are listed as a co-author on a peer-reviewed published paper. In our experience while many schools indicate undergrad research opportunities are available, most do not deliver in a meaningful way. For example, in some schools only students that qualify for financial aid can be hired as part of a research team. Also, the level and duration of involvement can vary greatly. Ask many detailed questions beyond listening to the PR spin a school has on this topic. Do they have a dedicated resource to support helping line up such opportunities for students.

2) Agree that a MS or PhD is needed in this field for long-term career success.

3) The prestige of a school should not be a major factor in these decisions. Where will your student be most comfortable and be most supported (and affordability). Recommend reading the 2014 Gallop-Purdue Index Report that identified the main factors that lead to college success - link below. What your child puts in far outweighs the “prestige factor”. https://www.gallup.com/services/176768/2014-gallup-purdue-index-report.aspx

 

[Doc0]

At the undergrad level it doesn't much matter where the degree comes from. As you progress in education it gets easier to get into more prestigious schools as long as you can prove your diligence and do well on the GRE. Social psychology is an entry into statistics psychometrics and advertising and social media like google so there is pretty good possibility beyond a teaching salary. Somebody has to design and validate the surveys and those are social psychologists. They are not clinicians and are not qualified to become licensed therapists. Schools dazzle you with BS but in the end math is math German is German and A's in those classes from a good cheap state school with good GRE scores will get you where you want to go. The other thing if it's cheap he may decide to double major and that may be affordable at the state school but prohibitive at the BFD school. I had a classmate who became a neuro surgeon by going to the down state 3rd tier school. His skillset was 3 standard deviations above most of the other students at third tier so he graduated valedictorian. If he went to MIT which he easily could have, he would have been average.

 

[Nick12]

The private college I attended had some kids attend tuition free provided they meet guidelines. Their moms and dads worked in the school cafeteria and janitorial work. Great perk for the school employees.

 

[bookman51]

DS was fortunate to have been accepted by 7 universities. Now he has less than 2 weeks left to make a decision. All of the schools at the top of his list are out of state, and his #1 choice (Univ. of Washington) is very competitive for admittance so they only give academic scholarships if you walk on water (we do not qualify for need based scholarship). Several of the other out-of-state schools have offered meager ($10k/yr) to very generous ($27k/yr) scholarships. He wants to study social psychology (research type work), and will need a Masters at a minimum and possibly a Phd.

For the undergrad degree, is $37K/yr for tuition ($53k/yr tuition+living) too much to spend on college? I run every spending decision through a cost vs value decision in my head and this one is really hard for me to swallow. DS is feeling this as well, which is why he hasn't committed yet. We've had many discussions about possibly needing student loans, or doing his graduate work part-time while he works. Are we paying for the name recognition? For comparison, the other schools range between $23K-44K/year for tuition+living expenses, after scholarships.

We have about $155K in 529s and the additional cost wouldn't be a major hardship, my question is more about the future value of his education. How do you know if you are over buying? Does anyone have real world experience on what a research psychologist can earn? What I find online is about $110K on the high end and, in my opinion, it would seem that this school would be too much. But I really don't know. I don't want my kid to the one who spent $300K on college for career that pays $65K/yr.

btw, WA makes gaining residency extremely difficult in order to be eligible for in-state tuition, so that is off the table for us. The school does, however, offer academic scholarships for sophomores on up, so (fingers-crossed) he could get some of those, but I don't want to bank on that.

If he chooses Univ of WA, I guess I'll be posting in the Blow That Dough thread!

I am glad I am not in your position. I spent my career in academia. I attended or worked at every size of institution from small liberal arts colleges to huge mega universities and medium-sized state colleges in between. It is hard to generalize about students. However, your son is making a college and major decision based on one high school class. And it is a huge, huge financial decision. At the big universities the undergraduates tend to pay for the graduate schools. That is, he may some huge classes taught by TAs of varying quality. His high school AP class may have been better taught. In addition, undergraduates often switch majors, etc.

Probably too late now, but I would look at a small state college. Such a thing may not exist in California but there are schools considered public liberal arts colleges, e.g St. Mary's College of Maryland; College of Charleston; Truman State; University of Mary Washington; and University of Minnesota Morris are a few that come to mind. You are concerned about if he will sufficiently challenged. You and he can a save a boatload of money if he challenges himself. Nobody says he has to do only the minimum required.

I am kind of cynical about those scholarships for sophomores. I know schools want students to prove themselves, but they also want students to get invested in the school....and the scholarship may or may materialize. Seen it happen.

I do not know the odds of your son become a research psychologist (has he ever talked with one?) but they are probably akin to a good (not great) high school football player making it to the pros. It can happen but he needs to the best or close to it in almost every class he takes. And the hill only gets steeper as he tries to get into good masters and Ph.D. programs. Obviously it happens, but it will not be easy. I am glad I am not facing your decisions. The amount students are taking on these days is almost criminal.

 

[bookman51]

At the undergrad level it doesn't much matter where the degree comes from. As you progress in education it gets easier to get into more prestigious schools as long as you can prove your diligence and do well on the GRE. Social psychology is an entry into statistics psychometrics and advertising and social media like google so there is pretty good possibility beyond a teaching salary. Somebody has to design and validate the surveys and those are social psychologists. They are not clinicians and are not qualified to become licensed therapists. Schools dazzle you with BS but in the end math is math German is German and A's in those classes from a good cheap state school with good GRE scores will get you where you want to go. The other thing if it's cheap he may decide to double major and that may be affordable at the state school but prohibitive at the BFD school. I had a classmate who became a neuro surgeon by going to the down state 3rd tier school. His skillset was 3 standard deviations above most of the other students at third tier so he graduated valedictorian. If he went to MIT which he easily could have, he would have been average.

I think this is pretty good advice. I had some brilliant teachers in graduate school but most were just good. And the difference between a good undergraduate teacher at a state college and a good teacher at a mega university may be indistinguishable to an undergraduate. The percentage of students at good undergraduate liberal arts college who go on to get their Ph.D.s is much higher than the percentage of undergraduates at the mega universities who do. Some relates to abilities, but much relates to individual attention, building of confidence, leadership and other opportunities, etc.

 

[Texas Proud]

I am going to throw a wrench in the current consensus of going cheap for undergrad and the spend the money on a great grad school... it is a one off from my knowledge but it might be the path for many more... I just do not know...


One of my nephews graduated from a top school with his undergrad... the good thing is he was in state so it was not that costly... but, this lead him to get a full scholarship for his Masters and he also go paid to be a TA... so it was really free as he was paid enough to live on and did not pay any tuition...


I do not think he would have gotten that deal with a degree from a lesser college...