Computers - Planning My Next Build

[ejman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer I'd say probably the two biggest reasons are 1) FOCL (fear of command line ) and 2) Not wanting to give up some very nice working Win programs. Also, I'd say that I had the wrong mindset as when trying the distros wanting to have them look like the familiarity functionality of early Macs and Windows, but instead of letting the systems come to me, if that makes sense. Overall, I like the idea of open source and pick and choose my own favorite distro instead of having a company dictate the OS. There will be growing pains though. As noticeable first is the idea of different ways of trying to install programs instead of just clicking on an EXE file like in Windows. Besides poking around, haven't really played around and used too many distros.

There is hardly ever any need to use the command line (terminal) in regular Linux use unless you want to geek out. If you ever run into a problem and do research in the Linux forums then the old hands will show you how to fix the problem quickly which is usually a copy and paste into the Linux terminal screen. I've been using Linux for years now and this is a very infrequent event.

As to WIN programs, I have used Quicken since 1992 and found that WINE in Linux will run a lot of Windows programs (including Quicken 2010 which is the version I use and like the most although I think latter versions are also supported). I use playonlinux https://www.playonlinux.com/en/ as an easy way to install windows programs but you don't have to, WINE can be used directly as playonlinux is sort of a graphic interface using the WINE engine. BTW, WINE is not an emulator, it directly interprets windows programs into Linux in real time so I haven't noticed any performance impairments with my archaic setup any way.

Tax software is the only area where I haven't been able to find a Linux functional equivalent to windows apps. I tried installing windows tax software under wine (turbotax) and apparently that particular program does some weird calls that wine was not happy about. Of course, one can use browser based tax software just fine under Linux.

As for installing programs, the Linux distros I've tried all have a software manager/store where one simply clicks on the app to be installed and presto its done, all dependencies taken care off. Linux distros I'm familiar with strongly discourage installing apps from "out there" in the interwebs and in fact my Linux mint distro will not allow it unless I go thru hoops to make it possible.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman There is hardly ever any need to use the command line (terminal) in regular Linux use unless you want to geek out. If you ever run into a problem and do research in the Linux forums then the old hands will show you how to fix the problem quickly which is usually a copy and paste into the Linux terminal screen. I've been using Linux for years now and this is a very infrequent event. As to WIN programs, I have used Quicken since 1992 and found that WINE in Linux will run a lot of Windows programs (including Quicken 2010 which is the version I use and like the most although I think latter versions are also supported). I use playonlinux https://www.playonlinux.com/en/ as an easy way to install windows programs but you don't have to, WINE can be used directly as playonlinux is sort of a graphic interface using the WINE engine. BTW, WINE is not an emulator, it directly interprets windows programs into Linux in real time so I haven't noticed any performance impairments with my archaic setup any way. Tax software is the only area where I haven't been able to find a Linux functional equivalent to windows apps. I tried installing windows tax software under wine (turbotax) and apparently that particular program does some weird calls that wine was not happy about. Of course, one can use browser based tax software just fine under Linux. As for installing programs, the Linux distros I've tried all have a software manager/store where one simply clicks on the app to be installed and presto its done, all dependencies taken care off. Linux distros I'm familiar with strongly discourage installing apps from "out there" in the interwebs and in fact my Linux mint distro will not allow it unless I go thru hoops to make it possible.

For me, once I do make the dive, will have to put brakes on myself to not try and go to the command line too often. I figure, since probably about 80% of what I do is using a web browser (which really isn't any different with another OS), the other 20% should be worth the change. I did play around with Wine and playonlinux before. Had mild success.

I might have to keep a spare Win computer around anyhow for programs like taxes and my GPS update. Plus, family members think I'm their computer tech support .

I've been mapping (in my mind only) what programs I use and most of them, I can think of a Linux counterpart.

[easysurfer]

ejman,

I'm stoked. In a good way.

Was doing some more poking around in Linux just now. One of the Win programs that I thought would be difficult to replace is one that records audio. I actually bought that as when Microsoft when from Win XP to Win 7, what I was using, Audacity stopped working on my Dell. There is a version of Audacity. But Audacity is more complicated than the software I have.

So, with a bit poking around. Just found and tested (went to command line to install since not in repository) a simple program that pretty much does the program I purchased does. Yay for open source. More incentive to switch!

[ejman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer ejman, I'm stoked. In a good way. Was doing some more poking around in Linux just now. One of the Win programs that I thought would be difficult to replace is one that records audio. I actually bought that as when Microsoft when from Win XP to Win 7, what I was using, Audacity stopped working on my Dell. There is a version of Audacity. But Audacity is more complicated than the software I have. So, with a bit poking around. Just found and tested (went to command line to install since not in repository) a simple program that pretty much does the program I purchased does. Yay for open source. More incentive to switch!

Exactly! Linux really is a lot of fun to use and most everything that can be done in another OS can be done in Linux (with the exception of tax software )

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman Exactly! Linux really is a lot of fun to use and most everything that can be done in another OS can be done in Linux (with the exception of tax software )

I was starting to get a bit hooked about a month ago as was trying to record the screen on my computer. Tested several Win recording programs (both commercial free trial and free), but results ended up choppy. Tried a Linux program that some guy wrote, worked like a charm.

I'm not trying to knock Win. But good to have alternatives and some things are done easier in another system.

I still have a Win budgeting program, that I swear by in Win but haven't found a nice, comparable friendly easy to use one yet in Linux. But most other stuff, I'm good. Stuff like Teamviewer, Anydesk, Veracrypt there are Linux versions too. Of course, except the taxes and GPS update for me.

[ejman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer I was starting to get a bit hooked about a month ago as was trying to record the screen on my computer. Tested several Win recording programs (both commercial free trial and free), but results ended up choppy. Tried a Linux program that some guy wrote, worked like a charm. I'm not trying to knock Win. But good to have alternatives and some things are done easier in another system. I still have a Win budgeting program, that I swear by in Win but haven't found a nice, comparable friendly easy to use one yet in Linux. But most other stuff, I'm good. Stuff like Teamviewer, Anydesk, Veracrypt there are Linux versions too. Of course, except the taxes and GPS update for me.

Just curious, have you tried to run those Win programs using WINE? I like to use playonlinux as a front end to WINE because it's easy to switch to different versions of WINE and I found out that the repositories ( at least the Linux mint one) have outdated versions of WINE. Also playonlinux allows for a lot of tweeking of wine settings in an easier to use format. There is also a lot of information on what works (and doesn't) available on the WINE website. You've probably already looked at all this but I thought I would bring it up in case you haven't. The other option is using the Crossover program but you have to pay for that one although I believe a free trial is available.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman Just curious, have you tried to run those Win programs using WINE? I like to use playonlinux as a front end to WINE because it's easy to switch to different versions of WINE and I found out that the repositories ( at least the Linux mint one) have outdated versions of WINE. Also playonlinux allows for a lot of tweeking of wine settings in an easier to use format. There is also a lot of information on what works (and doesn't) available on the WINE website. You've probably already looked at all this but I thought I would bring it up in case you haven't. The other option is using the Crossover program but you have to pay for that one although I believe a free trial is available.

About a year ago, I was able to somewhat get my password manager and a keep screen on top program somewhat working with playonlinux. Somewhat as some of the resizing of the screen of the password manager was off a bit, if I recall correctly. I have heard of Crossover, but never used. Earlier tonight, I tried setting up the password manager and my budget program on WINE but got confused. Forgot that last time I used playonlinux. Haven't tinkered that closely with Wine and Playonlinux yet. At least looks like there are 3 options. WINE/Playonlinux, use VirtualBox and run Windows (maybe an old version like XP or 7) and third option, keep a separate Win machine around. Though I do want to run a budget program on the linux machine as would get old fast having to turn on a Win machine each time just for that.

[ejman]

I received my HP 6300 sff today from Newegg. This is refurbished small factor desktop pc with an I7 processor, 8 GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD. Cost was $249. The Newegg ad said this was a grade "B" refurbish with scratches dents and so forth. I can not find a single scratch dent, or any other blemish. The PC looks brand new inside and out, completely clean no dust bunnies anywhere. Microsoft accepted the furnished windows 10 key so it came with a legitimate copy of windows 10. Everything seems to work so far and am now going thru Win 10 update hell. Jeez, it takes half an hour at most to install Linux get all updates and be done!

[stepford]

For tax software in Linux I just run a copy of Win7 in Virtual Box. Turbotax lives in there with a folder shared with the primary Linux OS. Everything but Turbotax lives in Linux. This works well for me.

PS. My build is now 4 years old, but I can't see any reason to upgrade anything. The now old hat 4690 processor still runs happily at 4.8 GHz and all the storage is handled by SSDs. Can't see how current tech would buy me much more than that.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman I received my HP 6300 sff today from Newegg. This is refurbished small factor desktop pc with an I7 processor, 8 GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD. Cost was $249. The Newegg ad said this was a grade "B" refurbish with scratches dents and so forth. I can not find a single scratch dent, or any other blemish. The PC looks brand new inside and out, completely clean no dust bunnies anywhere. Microsoft accepted the furnished windows 10 key so it came with a legitimate copy of windows 10. Everything seems to work so far and am now going thru Win 10 update hell. Jeez, it takes half an hour at most to install Linux get all updates and be done!

Your refurb does look new. The Win 10 update hell is one of the big reasons why I've already put Linux on my travel laptop to remote into my desktop. The last thing I'd want to do when trying to simply sign in remotely, is wait and wait for system updates.

[wanaberetiree]

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Originally Posted by easysurfer Been drinking some Linux cool aid over the past several days. So, I'm thinking, my next PC could have Linux for my primary stuff. But I won't be able to separate totally from Win as have some Win only programs. Question is, if I was to run Win in a virtual machine, abouts how loaded a machine do I need to build/buy to run effectively? Still got time to ponder as I'm still in the brainstorming phase.

I run Ubuntu server in intel nuc i7 with 16gb ram and 2 vms, one is windows 10 and I give it 6gb of ram - very comfortably and cool

[ejman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njhowie ejman - Congrats! I'm sure you'll be extremely happy with the new box - it is going to fly with the configuration you took. I purchase all of my machines from Newegg refurb inventory - servers and desktops. I have not had one single issue in 10 years having purchased about 10 machines. I do still have one old Pentium D HP box running Win XP. We have an old scanner and photo printer (both high end) which do not have any newer drivers. We put a SSD in it, and it performs better than an i3 with HDD. Again, you are going to be extremely happy with your configuration. Enjoy! I did just have a quick look at the link, it says Grade B - so the box may be scratched up or something, but the internals will be fine.

I've been enjoying my new (to me) HP 6300 for a few days now. You were right, this thing really does fly! Now I'm sorry that my extreme LBYM had me living with a really slow computer for many years. Sometimes this LBYM sickness does get in the way of life. I should listen to RobbieB more often.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejman Just curious, have you tried to run those Win programs using WINE? I like to use playonlinux as a front end to WINE because it's easy to switch to different versions of WINE and I found out that the repositories ( at least the Linux mint one) have outdated versions of WINE. Also playonlinux allows for a lot of tweeking of wine settings in an easier to use format. There is also a lot of information on what works (and doesn't) available on the WINE website. You've probably already looked at all this but I thought I would bring it up in case you haven't. The other option is using the Crossover program but you have to pay for that one although I believe a free trial is available.

Did some more poking around today. Had a chance to install (well, the best I could) some Win programs that I swear by using playonlinux. One program is my budget program. The other two are password generators which I really like. One password generator didn't install. The other installed but I lost functionality (for example, "copy/paste" password to clipboard icon was lost). The budget program worked somewhat til retrieving a report caused a crash on playonlinux.

Conclusion I got was if I really really want to run those Win programs, playonlinux was not the ticket.

So, I then tried with virtualbox. Installed virtualbox and installed a copy of Win XP. Loaded the budget program and that installed. But what I really want is to run in seamless mode in virtual box to fake me out as though I'm running the program directly on my linux host machine. Never got that far as trying to installed the other piece parts (installed virtualbox essentials for usb support, tried to install virtual guest assistant for seamless mode) got some type of network error.

Not immediate success but did learn some things. Especially, after some more poking around, read that with future kernel 4.16 and beyond, Virtualbox's guest assistant will be part of the kernel. So may just wait for then rather than trying to make heads or tails with more poking around.

[meierlde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer Did some more poking around today. Had a chance to install (well, the best I could) some Win programs that I swear by using playonlinux. One program is my budget program. The other two are password generators which I really like. One password generator didn't install. The other installed but I lost functionality (for example, "copy/paste" password to clipboard icon was lost). The budget program worked somewhat til retrieving a report caused a crash on playonlinux. Conclusion I got was if I really really want to run those Win programs, playonlinux was not the ticket. So, I then tried with virtualbox. Installed virtualbox and installed a copy of Win XP. Loaded the budget program and that installed. But what I really want is to run in seamless mode in virtual box to fake me out as though I'm running the program directly on my linux host machine. Never got that far as trying to installed the other piece parts (installed virtualbox essentials for usb support, tried to install virtual guest assistant for seamless mode) got some type of network error. Not immediate success but did learn some things. Especially, after some more poking around, read that with future kernel 4.16 and beyond, Virtualbox's guest assistant will be part of the kernel. So may just wait for then rather than trying to make heads or tails with more poking around.

With a windows guest a couple of ways to share files on virtual box suggest themselves either install the virtualbox guest extensions and then share file systems that way or bring up samba.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde With a windows guest a couple of ways to share files on virtual box suggest themselves either install the virtualbox guest extensions and then share file systems that way or bring up samba.

Samba? Sounds like a type of dance .

I'll have to poke around some more. I did have the extensions installed before to use USB. Decided to start over and back up and try again as I was poking around (install here, read some, install there).

What I'm trying to accomplish is have seamless functionality. So I can, for example, click on a budget file (created running Windows under virtualbox) and that opens up looking like I just did a click in linux. Of course, if in the process this opens up virtualbox to execute, that'll be fine too. Hope I explained properly.

[meierlde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer Samba? Sounds like a type of dance . I'll have to poke around some more. I did have the extensions installed before to use USB. Decided to start over and back up and try again as I was poking around (install here, read some, install there). What I'm trying to accomplish is have seamless functionality. So I can, for example, click on a budget file (created running Windows under virtualbox) and that opens up looking like I just did a click in linux. Of course, if in the process this opens up virtualbox to execute, that'll be fine too. Hope I explained properly.

Samba is the linux version of the windows file sharing protocol. In general it may be easier to use the shared files from virutal box which will have a defined piece of the linux file system appear on the windows box. (best something under /home/username.) Samba allows you to access files in another windows guest, or on another windows machine. (Note that with virutal box the way files work it is best not to store data files on the virtual machine, as deleted file space takes some work to reclaim, not hard but a bother). If the usb device is a flash drive you might be able to mount it in linux and use shared files to bring it up. I never have tried the usb stuff on virtual box however.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde Samba is the linux version of the windows file sharing protocol. In general it may be easier to use the shared files from virutal box which will have a defined piece of the linux file system appear on the windows box. (best something under /home/username.) Samba allows you to access files in another windows guest, or on another windows machine. (Note that with virutal box the way files work it is best not to store data files on the virtual machine, as deleted file space takes some work to reclaim, not hard but a bother). If the usb device is a flash drive you might be able to mount it in linux and use shared files to bring it up. I never have tried the usb stuff on virtual box however.

I will have to read up a bit on Samba along with poking around some more with virtual box. Thanks.

[meierlde]

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Originally Posted by easysurfer I will have to read up a bit on Samba along with poking around some more with virtual box. Thanks.

I just tried virtualbox hosted on OPenSuse, with a usb memory stick, with a windows xp guest. You go to devices on the machine menu, and select usb, check your usb flash drive and after a little while xp decides the device exists and mounts it. If the device is mounted on the linux side virtual box unmounts it there, and then when the xp vm is shut down linux sees the flash drive again.

[meierlde]

Note what you want to do is done on the windows side to run an app. Just make a different vm for each app. Then on the virtualbox manager you can start the vm that runs your app.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde I just tried virtualbox hosted on OPenSuse, with a usb memory stick, with a windows xp guest. You go to devices on the machine menu, and select usb, check your usb flash drive and after a little while xp decides the device exists and mounts it. If the device is mounted on the linux side virtual box unmounts it there, and then when the xp vm is shut down linux sees the flash drive again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meierlde Note what you want to do is done on the windows side to run an app. Just make a different vm for each app. Then on the virtualbox manager you can start the vm that runs your app.

After installing virtualbox (VB) essentials, I was able to see the USB devices. But when trying to install the VB Guest Additions to enable seamless mode, the download occurs but when trying to verify, I get an error.

From what I've read, might be due to an older version of VB. I was using version 5.0.40 (installed from the distro's repository). But next is to try with a more recent version.

The good thing is this is all just testing on my part, the get my hands dirty with Linux.