Consolidated 2020 (2d half) RIP Thread

[MuirWannabe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan I just checked Niekro has the most all time wins after age 40 with 121. Number 2? Most wouldnt think of him until after his name was said and then go...Oh ya, makes sense... Jamie Moyer with 105.

Crafty pitchers. Have to be, for success to come after age 40. Can’t just rely on heat. Gotta know how to ‘pitch’ as they say. Exception might be Nolan Ryan. He threw high heat till the end.

[Stormy Kromer]

Can you imagine Nolan Ryan playing in an over 70 league somewhere around Phoenix in the winter months these days...who the heck could catch him, let alone hit him. Umps would have a hard time calling balls and strikes.


He must have faced Phil a few times over the years.


The Niekro brothers were great. So were the Perry's. Some of baseball's best.

[RunningBum]

Some knuckler, I think it was Bouton in "Ball Four", said he pitcher better on less rest, because it helped keep him from overthrowing the knuckler.

I browsed retrosheet.org for Niekro years 77-79, when he had the most starts. It looked like he only started once with 2 days rest, and he didn't make it out of the first inning. He did relieve a couple times with less rest, but then they pushed his next start back a couple of days.

For his 300th win, in a meaningless end of season game with the Yankees, he threw a shutout, and threw just one knuckle ball, to end the game on a strikeout. I don't know if that's true, but I remember hearing about it when it happened, and found a mention of it in one of his obits. That's a 46 year old pitcher who probably never had a classic major league arm to begin with, throwing a shut out without his go to pitch. Maybe they kept thinking the knuckle ball was coming.

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormy Kromer Can you imagine Nolan Ryan playing in an over 70 league somewhere around Phoenix in the winter months these days...who the heck could catch him, let alone hit him. Umps would have a hard time calling balls and strikes.

I read a story about Koufax, in his 50s at one of those fantasy camps, where some camper at the plate was giving Koufax crap. Koufax came back with a 90mph fastball, for a strike. But yeah, I'm sure Ryan could've done that too.

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum I read a story about Koufax, in his 50s at one of those fantasy camps, where some camper at the plate was giving Koufax crap. Koufax came back with a 90mph fastball, for a strike. But yeah, I'm sure Ryan could've done that too.

On the opposite side of Koufax and Ryan, take a look at Bill “Spaceman” Lee throwing an eephus pitch that didnt quite work out in the ‘75 World Series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJRXlCeAXPY

[eytonxav]

There have been a number of successful knuckleball pitchers over the years, but Phil was probably the best. I am not sure if there are any current day knuckleballers around. The last one that I can remember was R.A. Dickey.

[Livefree]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan On the opposite side of Koufax and Ryan, take a look at Bill “Spaceman” Lee throwing an eephus pitch that didnt quite work out in the ‘75 World Series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJRXlCeAXPY

I was at this game..sitting behind the plate when this happened..


a quick story...I was in Belmont Mass for my job back in the 80's which involved traveling, and I went into a little seafood restaurant there. I started talking to the man behind the counter, and it turned out to be Wilbur Wood.



He purchased the restaurant after his baseball career was over.

[Rocket Man]

Regarding Wilbur Wood, I remember when he started both games of a double header for the White Sox. Probably early seventies. If I recall correctly, he fared pretty well. As someone else said, being a little tired actually helps a knuckleballer. Maybe someone can look it up.

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livefree I was at this game..sitting behind the plate when this happened.. a quick story...I was in Belmont Mass for my job back in the 80's which involved traveling, and I went into a little seafood restaurant there. I started talking to the man behind the counter, and it turned out to be Wilbur Wood. He purchased the restaurant after his baseball career was over.

I bet that was a good memory for you! I wonder if the ball was still in flight after the game was over and you were heading for the car, ha.

[RunningBum]

I can never resist a challenge to find an event like that! Retrosheet.org is the place to go. On July 20, 1973, on two days rest Wood indeed did start both ends of a doubleheader against the Yankees, who were a middling team that year. It did not go well.

In game one, he faced 6 batters, and all scored. He actually got three strikes on the leadoff batter, but it was not an out due to a passed ball on the 3rd strike.

Game two was a little better. Wood got the first 9 out in order, but gave up two runs in the 4th and only got one out in the 5th with 5 more runs scoring. Wood got the loss in both games.

With the All Star break following the game, Wood got 5 days rest and won his next game.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/...1030131973.htm shows the season, and you can click on the games on July 20 to see the box scores.

I didn't find any other games where he started both ends of a doubleheader. I did see 6 or 7 games where he pitched in both games, but they were all in relief and I don't think ever more than an inning or two.

[scrabbler1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man Regarding Wilbur Wood, I remember when he started both games of a double header for the White Sox. Probably early seventies. If I recall correctly, he fared pretty well. As someone else said, being a little tired actually helps a knuckleballer. Maybe someone can look it up.

He indeed started both games of a doubleheader, back on July 20th, 1973, at Yankee Stadium. He got knocked out in the first inning of the first game, came back to start the second game and got knocked out in the 5th inning of a rain-shortened game. Lost both games.

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/...201NYA1973.htm

https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/...202NYA1973.htm

I remember reading Ball Four by Bouton and he had a funny line about a knuckleball which didn't knuckle and got hit for a homerun: "In like a watermelon, out like rocket!"

[candrew]

Bob Uecker, who caught for Niekro in 1967, when Niekro was emerging as a leading pitcher, told Sports Illustrated in 1969 what that was like.

“In those days, Phil had less control,” Uecker said. “Sometimes I’d know before he let go of it that it was going to get by me. I’d just start running and play it off the wall. At least I got to know a lot of the folks in the box seats.”

As part of Uecker's comedy schtick, he said the way to catch a knuckleball was to wait until it stop rolling, then pick it up.

[MuirWannabe]

Those Uecker quotes are hilarious.

Here’s a decent article on the disappearance of the knuckleball in MLB.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...going-extinct/

[RunningBum]

Uecker had a league leading 27 passed balls that year, even though he appeared in less than half the games, and played his first 18 games with Philadelphia. Joe Torre caught 3/4 of the games and had 16 passed balls.

Add in Ueck's .146 batting average with the Braves, and you can understand why it was his last season at age 33.

[Rocket Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrabbler1 He indeed started both games of a doubleheader, back on July 20th, 1973, at Yankee Stadium. He got knocked out in the first inning of the first game, came back to start the second game and got knocked out in the 5th inning of a rain-shortened game. Lost both games. https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/...201NYA1973.htm https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/...202NYA1973.htm I remember reading Ball Four by Bouton and he had a funny line about a knuckleball which didn't knuckle and got hit for a homerun: "In like a watermelon, out like rocket!"

Well, my memory was good enough to remember Wilbur starting both games, but not good enough to remember the poor performance! Thanks to both of you for looking it up! Back in those days, I was more a Sox fan than a Cub fan. Liked Bill Melton, Dick Allen, Harry Carey, etc. I believe Dick Allen just recently passed at 81. Loved watching his line drive homers! Always loved old Comiskey Park knowing that all the greats had trod that soil. Babe Ruth, etc.

[Mr._Graybeard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man Well, my memory was good enough to remember Wilbur starting both games, but not good enough to remember the poor performance! Thanks to both of you for looking it up! Back in those days, I was more a Sox fan than a Cub fan. Liked Bill Melton, Dick Allen, Harry Carey, etc. I believe Dick Allen just recently passed at 81. Loved watching his line drive homers! Always loved old Comiskey Park knowing that all the greats had trod that soil. Babe Ruth, etc.

Woody had a great knuckleball teacher in Hoyt Wilhelm, who like Niekro also pitched into his late 40s (actually, he was days away from turning 50 when he pitched his last Major League game).

[Livefree]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulligan I bet that was a good memory for you! I wonder if the ball was still in flight after the game was over and you were heading for the car, ha.

It was a good memory..but mostly for how it unfolded before the game.


After the game 6 Heroics, my friends and I headed into Boston without tickets.
As we headed down Landsdowne street, it was a chaotic scene. People with ladders, ropes etc. and police all over.


We shimmied up a drain pipe near center field. and came down onto a flat roof, and then scaled a short wall in right field and ended up in the Bleachers!


We stayed there for most of the game, and an attendant we knew let us through the gate leading to the good seats, where we ended up behind home plate.

[mitchjav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrabbler1 He indeed started both games of a doubleheader, back on July 20th, 1973, at Yankee Stadium. He got knocked out in the first inning of the first game, came back to start the second game and got knocked out in the 5th inning of a rain-shortened game. Lost both games.

Seems that there a number of pitchers who starting both ends of a double-header, including Don Newcombe and Babe Ruth. There are 25 instances of a pitcher throwing 2 complete games in a double hitter, none-later than 1924.

[HadEnuff]

Johnny Bench told a story about Phil Niekro. The GM of the Reds told Johnny that they had a chance to trade for Niekro. According to Johnny he said, "Great. Just find another guy to catch him." Trade never happened.

[HadEnuff]

i don't know if it was about Niekro specifically, or knuckleballers in general, but when asked about how to catch a knuckleball, Bob Eucker replied, "wait until it stops rolling, then pick it up."