Crazy to try to fix a 27 YO wash machine?

[kcowan]

Geez, Robbie even has an agent to help him BTD!

 

[papaof2]

The "high efficiency" washers use less water but they run forever. If I could persuade my better half, I'd get a wringer washer with the "suds saver" sinks, which allowed you to get two (or more) loads washed with the same water and soap and possibly the same rinse water - depending on what was being washed. That's actually "high efficiency" and wringer washers only run until the clothes look "clean enough" - not more than an hour. For things that can go through the wringer, they'll likely be equally as dry as the HE washer gets them.

I do keep the Kenmore dryer running. Purchased in Nov 2000 at the Sears Outlet store and with $75 off because of the dent in the control console (in the middle - no working parts there), it's has several "maintenance kits", consisting of the rubber-tired rollers the back of the drum rests on, the doorseal the front of the drum rests on, a new belt and a new belt tensioner. I have the next "kit" in the cabinet above the dryer as it's coming up on 5 years since the last one was installed.

An hour or two and $70-$80 every 5 years or so for a "like new" dryer? Seems like a good investment to me.

 

[ERD50]

The "high efficiency" washers use less water but they run forever. If I could persuade my better half, I'd get a wringer washer with the "suds saver" sinks, which allowed you to get two (or more) loads washed with the same water and soap and possibly the same rinse water - depending on what was being washed. That's actually "high efficiency" and wringer washers only run until the clothes look "clean enough" - not more than an hour. For things that can go through the wringer, they'll likely be equally as dry as the HE washer gets them. ...

My wife's Aunt had a set up like that into the 80's at least, and she swore by it. Said the wringer got the clothes so dry the dryer (or hanging ) was very fast.

I actually ran an experiment to see if multiple spins in our standard washer would get the clothes much dryer. I weighed them, and ran them through 2 more spin cycles, measuring each. I'd say the designers got it right, it really was diminishing returns for each additional spin cycle, even considering that taking the clothes out and in should help redistribute the wet spots.

...

I do keep the Kenmore dryer running. Purchased in Nov 2000 at the Sears Outlet store and with $75 off because of the dent in the control console (in the middle - no working parts there), it's has several "maintenance kits", consisting of the rubber-tired rollers the back of the drum rests on, the doorseal the front of the drum rests on, a new belt and a new belt tensioner. I have the next "kit" in the cabinet above the dryer as it's coming up on 5 years since the last one was installed.

An hour or two and $70-$80 every 5 years or so for a "like new" dryer? Seems like a good investment to me.

Agreed. The fix is so cheap/easy, easier than buying new, IMO.

I never fix appliances.

Just drive over to the guy I've known for 30 years. Pete at center appliance. He shows me the good ones and helps my decision then he delivers and most important removes the old for free. No comparison shopping, no visiting multiple stores and no hassle.

Easy. Just hit the easy button!

Well, I actually bought this set from "a guy" - small business in town, took care of delivery, it was very easy.

But these worked so well, that was over 30 years ago since I've seen him. The store isn't there any more, would not be surprised if he has passed on.

We are fortunate though, there is a family owned appliance business in the area, though it is LARGE, no longer a mom-pop outfit, goes back to 1936:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abt_Electronics

I mentioned this a while back, talking about the excellent service and no-hassle purchase. I said I could not vouch for their on-line sales, as I only used the local outlet, but a number of people were very positive on their long-distance service as well.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

....

P.S.-- the LG He washer and dryer have one HUGE "plus" in comparison with my old GE agitator washer and dryer. Probably would make zero difference to most people, but for me this is amazing. It plays a pretty little song at the end of each cycle instead of a long and deafeningly loud "BUZZ!!!" that I swear could be heard a block away (with no volume control or easy way to shut it off permanently either according to workmen who know). With the appliances at the old house being located in a closet just off the den where I sat, that was simply awful, and having it heard at great distances was embarrassing and kept me from doing laundry at night. The pretty little song played by my new LG appliances makes my laundry day much more peaceful and fun and to me, it is a big improvement. I think that's worth at least half of the price I paid for the set.

I meant to reply when you wrote this, but now you have me thinking of wiring in a little music player in place of the buzzer. Would be easy. DW could choose any tune in our library of digital music! How about:

As far as " (with no volume control or easy way to shut it off permanently either according to workmen who know)." Those workmen don't know. Disabling it is super easy, just unplug the buzzer inside. Making it switchable would just be adding an on/off switch, also very easy. Controlling the volume is a little tougher, those buzzers are pretty much on/off devices, but I'm sure something could be done (mechanical damping the mechanism, or replacing it with something adjustable, like the old Bell Telephone desk-set ringers, which mechanically adjusted the travel of the striker.

But you already have your solution, I'm just thinking out load!


-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

....

It looks like the obliterated seal might be important to keeping water out of the transmission, so there could be trouble ahead. But it's certainly worth the $20 to see, especially if the fix is easy. If there's a way to squirt/squeeze some grease into the transmission while everything is apart, that would probably be worth doing.

Decided today would be a good day to replace that seal. Got it done, and running a test load of rags now.

Not too bad, but most of the videos I found were about the tub seal, which is the next level deeper in, but I figured it out. A little tricky, everything was kinda crusty. Had to bang on the washer a bit to free it up, and needed my dental picks to get it out of its 'well'. Then I didn't know what I was looking at, had to probe and pull, but it was the old deteriorated seal, and I finally got that out, carefully noting exactly how it was positioned. Mostly the bottom of the seal was deteriorated, but I guess that gunk worked its way out to leave the black streaks on clothes.

Had to clean everything up pretty good, pulling rubber bits and soap crust out of there. Took phone videos along the way, and my new Harbor Freight LED 'head light' was great for lighting up everything.

The seal also has a coil spring inside it, I guess to push the lip of the seal against the top & bottom. But when I went to drop the seal in place, it seemed to hang up, and not compress enough to get the washer and clip on top of it. So I pull it out, and the washer that sits inside between the spring and the seal was stuck on the shaft. Hmm. So I got that out, sanded down the shaft a bit to get any gunk off it, gave it a swipe of silicone plumber grease, fitted the washer back into the seal/spring, and it went right in.

Then the dreaded instructions "replace the spring clip". Easy, if you are Houdini. Well some finagling, and I got the clip in place.

Opened up the bottom, and all looked well, no leaks from running with that damaged seal, as far as I can tell. So we will see.

Time for a beer. Then salmon on the grill with some awesome fresh sweet corn from the local farm stand.

-ERD50

 

[Elbata]

I used to work for Sears just repairing their washer/dryer brand. Made by Whirlpool, and sold under Sears' name, Kenmore. Back in the day Whirlpool/Kenmore had 50% market share. So if I walked in any house in America, 50% chance I could fix their appliances.

The dryer was a thing of beauty. Easy to repair, cheap parts, and built to last. With Youtube, most repairs could be done by the homeowner. A dryer that could easily last 50 years. (And could retail easily today under $250.)

 

[samclem]

Decided today would be a good day to replace that seal. Got it done, and running a test load of rags now.

Not too bad, but most of the videos I found were about the tub seal, which is the next level deeper in, but I figured it out. A little tricky, everything was kinda crusty.

Glad it worked out. It sounds like you need harder water--the stuff that comes out of my well would eventually "clot" that leak closed if the seal disintegrated.

 

[brewer12345]

I used to work for Sears just repairing their washer/dryer brand. Made by Whirlpool, and sold under Sears' name, Kenmore. Back in the day Whirlpool/Kenmore had 50% market share. So if I walked in any house in America, 50% chance I could fix their appliances.

The dryer was a thing of beauty. Easy to repair, cheap parts, and built to last. With Youtube, most repairs could be done by the homeowner. A dryer that could easily last 50 years. (And could retail easily today under $250.)

My dryer is a '98 Kenmore. A few years ago it was having issues and I pulled it apart twice to do repairs (changed the main belt as well while I was at it). I am far from mechanically inclined, but these things are really very simple machines. As long as I can source parts, I will keep this one running.

 

[HFWR]

Just replaced the timer on a 1996 vintage Hotpoint washer. Timer still worked, but the two tabs holding one side in place finally broke. Amazon had a direct replacement for $90. Took maybe ten minutes to replace.

 

[ERD50]

Another annual update. Still running for another year (did a seal replacement last year, mentioned a few posts back).

So that's 34 years on the machine, another seven years after I first posted this, and some people saying don't bother. The original fix 7 years ago was a cakewalk, the seal replacement last year a bit more work.

What are the odds a new machine would have caused more trouble than this in the past 7 years?

-ERD50

 

[Gumby]

Nice! Congrats on a successful job.

 

[Elbata]

The Whirlpool/Kenmore dryer, the older model, not sure what they have now, was truly an appliance elegant in its simplicity, but built to last for a very, very long time. Not like (my opinion only) the crap that's sold today at a much higher cost, more expensive to repair, and not nearly as long lasting.

But without doubt, the old Maytag washer was a washer that was built for thousands of washings. If those machines were really that good (remember the lonely Maytag repairman to prove it) why aren't those machines still around?

Here's what I think:
1. The washers were made with metal parts instead of plastic. Heavier machines causes higher shipping costs.
2. They do indeed last longer with less repairs, and less expensive to repair. In fact, to gain access to the whole machine, there were two screws in the front panel that once removed exposed and gave access to the innards. If there was such a thing as built in obsolescence, it lasted too long.
3. The water level on those washers, though adjustable, if used for a full load, the water would come most of the way to the top of the tub. Today's washers use much less water. (In fact, that's why today's dishwashers don't work as well as years ago--there's simply not enough water--mandated by govt).

There's no doubt the Maytag washers of old are way better than anything on today's market. Same goes for the Whirlpool/Kenmore dryer.

Today, I'm a proud owner of the 1998 Honda Accord. 22 years old with 110K miles. Often, I"m told the engine is bullet proof. There really are products out there that stand out and do stand the test of time.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Some of your post really confuses me.

But without doubt, the old Maytag washer was a washer that was built for thousands of washings. If those machines were really that good (remember the lonely Maytag repairman to prove it) why aren't those machines still around?

You do recognize that they lonely repairman was advertising, not necessarily reality, right?

If those machines were really that good, why aren't those machines still around?

Who says that they are not? Did you have some statistics to share?

Here's what I think:
1. The washers were made with metal parts instead of plastic. Heavier machines causes higher shipping costs.

But this makes no sense. This is an argument, perhaps, why fewer Maytags were sold, not repaired? Or are you suggesting that a Maytag owner looks into a repair part, then finds out the shipping cost for the heavy, metal part, then decides instead to scrap the appliance rather than pay the shipping cost on a part, whereas the owner of a different brand decides to have that (lighter) part shipped?

2. They do indeed last longer with less repairs, and less expensive to repair. In fact, to gain access to the whole machine, there were two screws in the front panel that once removed exposed and gave access to the innards. If there was such a thing as built in obsolescence, it lasted too long.

I am now REALLY confused. "Built-in obsolescence" is the very antonym of "lasted too long." Can you clarify?

Today, I'm a proud owner of the 1998 Honda Accord. 22 years old with 110K miles. Often, I"m told the engine is bullet proof. There really are products out there that stand out and do stand the test of time.

Agreed! I have a '95 Civic with ~188k!

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Some of your post really confuses me.

So, this morning, I decided that my post above was unnecessarily argumentative, and decided to delete it. However, I find that I am unable to do so.

Sorry about that!

 

[Sunset]

Long ago I fixed my washing machine, it was a gear part for the agitator. It was plastic and had worn away.

With washing machines, and probably many other things, manufacturers are driven to reduce costs.
I can understand some manufacturer realized changing some metal parts for plastic parts is:

1. Cheaper,
2. Lighter, so shipping the part to factory and the finished product costs a few cents less, multiplied by many thousands over the years.
3. Lasts nearly as long or at least many years, so it's acceptable to consumers, meaning people are used to things wearing out/breaking so if it lasts 10 years, complaints are few.
4. Rarely, a change to plastic is because it's actually an improvement in some manner (think auto bumpers).

It's annoying to myself, as I'm cheap and would use a washer for 100 years, never replacing it because it looks old.

 

[oldphd]

I have two of those almost 40 year old Whirlpool/Kenmore dryers. Relocated last year halfway across the US. The movers thought I was a bit off for moving something worth "almost nothing", said I should just buy new. Also had to add an outlet for the second dryer at the new place. DW is so used to be being able to split things up from the large washer, use different drying temps, etc., that it would be tough to go back to just one dryer. They are simple and I can do the occasional repair. At least so far, parts have been easy to get. They were fairly universal, common parts needed fit many models.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Long ago I fixed my washing machine, it was a gear part for the agitator. It was plastic and had worn away.

With washing machines, and probably many other things, manufacturers are driven to reduce costs.
I can understand some manufacturer realized changing some metal parts for plastic parts is:

1. Cheaper,
2. Lighter, so shipping the part to factory and the finished product costs a few cents less, multiplied by many thousands over the years.
3. Lasts nearly as long or at least many years, so it's acceptable to consumers, meaning people are used to things wearing out/breaking so if it lasts 10 years, complaints are few.
4. Rarely, a change to plastic is because it's actually an improvement in some manner (think auto bumpers).

It's annoying to myself, as I'm cheap and would use a washer for 100 years, never replacing it because it looks old.

That sounds familiar! Here is a post of mine from a couple of months ago (in the "Recent Repair" thread):

I realized my washing machine was barely agitating. So a few minutes of googling suggested that there were cogs (or AKA “dogs”) on Kenmore/Whirlpool/Roper washing machines that have been used with an unchanged design for like, for-evah! They limit the motion of the agitator to one direction, but they, of course, can wear out. I “risked it” and ordered a replacement set of cogs for the princely sum of $4 delivered.

After prying off the agitator cover, expecting to find a nut to engage with the socket, what do I see but a square hole? Kinda big square hole. I quickly surmised that it fit a 1/2” square drive tool. I looked around, and the thing that came to hand was my 24” breaker bar, which conveniently had an extension on it already. So, bottom line, I used a damn breaker bar to unscrew the plastic threaded piece, that probably needed about 0.0004 foot-pounds torque to unscrew. I held the bar vertically and used it like a screwdriver. Good thing I had a breaker bar!

The job took less than 5 minutes. Unscrewed the retainer, found 3 of 4 cogs broken, popped ‘em out, replaced them, screwed back together, snap the cover back on. When I first discovered the problem with the agitator, I honestly thought I would need to replace the 22-year-old washing machine, but I guess I saved another $600 or so.

 

[ERD50]

Another annual update. Still running for another year (did a seal replacement last year, mentioned a few posts back).

So that's 34 years on the machine, another seven years after I first posted this, and some people saying don't bother. The original fix 7 years ago was a cakewalk, the seal replacement last year a bit more work.

What are the odds a new machine would have caused more trouble than this in the past 7 years?

-ERD50

I just realized I missed the July 2021 update (what, no one noticed and PM'd me? )

Well, that's because we sold that house along with the washer/dryer in the Spring of 2021.

I did half-joke with the new owners that they were getting a classic, retro model - I'm not sure they were impressed. But I did mention that I was told this was one of the most reliable models made, and to try to keep it going as long as I could get parts. So it was in good order at least up until 2021, so ~ 35 years and (maybe) still counting.

They mentioned they were going to move the W/D to the basement, so maybe they don't care that they're old, and did keep running them?

Let's see how long the new ones (GE) we bought for the 'new' place last! If built as good as the old Maytag (I doubt it), they would likely outlast me.

The race is on! One year and counting.

-ERD50

 

[JP.mpls]

ERD 50,
I get it, keeping old stuff working, and saving in the process. I've been doing this my whole life.

I'm starting to switch over to the "blow that dough" team in my retirement years. I ordered up all new appliances for my Florida townhome, and have no regrets doing that.

I think I meqt someone who could match you. My partner and I went to visit her parents in NY this spring. They have an old cape cod that they had built 60 years ago. Original owners. He just turned 90.

They had new countertops put into their old kitchen at some point, but I swear the dishwasher and stove look at least 30 years old. When did the start making dishwashers anyway? It looks gross even. He says it works great, so he won't replace it.

It kind of made me smile.

Take care, JP

FYI, they have the money to do whatever they want.

 

[Time2]

My Maytag Bravos is only 13 years old, so far I had retrieve a sock out of the

discharge comb, replace the 4 support springs in each corner and remove the drum from the shaft, because it was froze in place and would not float as it was supposed to. This was a real job, My wife had the 5lb sledge hammer beating on a 4x4 against the shaft will I held the basket up. It was over 100 blows with the sledge hammer before we finally got it loose. I cleaned it up with emery cloth and it is still moving freely after 4 years.

 

[freedomatlast]

Another annual update. Still running for another year (did a seal replacement last year, mentioned a few posts back).

So that's 34 years on the machine, another seven years after I first posted this, and some people saying don't bother. The original fix 7 years ago was a cakewalk, the seal replacement last year a bit more work.

What are the odds a new machine would have caused more trouble than this in the past 7 years?

-ERD50

The only time I'll consider junking an older washing machine is if the gears and/or shafts in the transmission wear to the point of being non-functional. And this rarely happens. Everything else is easy to replace and the parts are cheap. It usually takes a lot less effort to repair an old washing machine than it does to shop for a new one, and install it.

We have a Maytag machine with a stainless steel tub of about the same vintage, and the only repairs it's needed to date is a lid switch and timer. Both were easy to diagnose, inexpensive to purchase and easy to replace.

 

[paul2102]

We have a Maytag that’s about 40 years old. It stopped spinning and draining 2 years ago in the middle of covid. Didn’t want to go out looking for a new machine, so I did some troubleshooting online and found that a pulley had worn out, so ordered a new one for around $15, easily installed it with a new belt, and it’s been running like new. In 40 years, the only other thing I had to replace was the timer.
There is nothing different with todays machines, other than having cheaper parts and they are built to be harder to repair.

 

[ERD50]

We have a Maytag that’s about 40 years old. It stopped spinning and draining 2 years ago in the middle of covid. Didn’t want to go out looking for a new machine, so I did some troubleshooting online and found that a pulley had worn out, so ordered a new one for around $15, easily installed it with a new belt, and it’s been running like new. In 40 years, the only other thing I had to replace was the timer.
There is nothing different with todays machines, other than having cheaper parts and they are built to be harder to repair.

Great!

Now you can take over the annual updates on this thread I left my machine when we sold the house, last year so no more updates from me, but you are already ahead with 40 years!

I'll put it on my calendar to check this thread next year

-ERD50

 

[Livefree]

We've had our Kenmore Washer 27 years, and it's only broken twice. Once I fixed with a $20 part..Appliance man told us it's the best washer ever made.

 

[calmloki]

We've had a spate of appliance failures. Door handle on our frontload 24" wide Danby stacking washer broke. Stacking Danby dryer started making horrible noises while turning the drum. Side-by-side GE frig started having soft ice cream. The GE has been in use since we moved in about 23 years ago - replaced ramped "self closing" plastic hinges with used earlier model metal hinges from an appliance store's stack of junk appliances and the automatic ice maker with new just after the 1 year warranty expiration, no problems since till now. The Danbys are newer, maybe 15 years old.

We were up for new replacements - but the 24" wide washer/dryer sets were somewhere around $1600-$2000 and very sparse as far as choice - and non-existent to look at physically. Refrigerator-freezer units were more available, but delivery and setup is problematic and the cost was somewhere between $1300 and $2500.

So then we started reading reviews and found that modern appliances might last five years. Lots and lots of unhappy customers. Sigh. I'm trying to just throw money at problems, I really am, but buying new problems just irks me.

Ended up sourcing a new belt for the dryer (not easy, had one coming from a seller in England after I tracked down the strange size/configuration, but he ended up double checking and didn't have the right part - then it became available from the US on Ebay).

Washing machine was a bigger problem - no Danby door parts other than a handle spring available. Finally found a terrible YouTube video of a door for a different make washer being disassembled and got the clue needed, which let me get the door taken apart, where I found the plastic surround for the handle totally broken off. Epoxy and fingers crossed, we've done 6 loads so far..

Was able to source defrost heaters and thermostat for the freezer compartment and installed them - evidence indicates a good fix.

Total cost for all repairs about $145 and some of my time, but probably less time than we spent researching and shopping for new replacements.

Call me crazy, or maybe just lazy.