Creepy landlord

[ponyboy]

Your DD and BF should have the landlord over for a talk. Invite him in, sit down, coffee whatever...and discuss what is going on.

The kicker is make sure you have a camera somewhere that is recording everything...sight/sound. Once the convo is over and hes about to leave thank him for stopping by and discussing...but just for safe measure the entire convo was video recorded...then ask him how that makes him feel.

Then have your DD and BF start looking for a new place to rent. Whether he installs cameras or not...LL is a nuisance. Do realize that he has keys to the place and if he sees them leave sometime whats to prevent him from going in and snooping around? No thanks...time to get outta dodge.

If he's that paranoid he's not fit to be a landlord. Tell him to buy some low cost index funds and board up the freaking house.

[cathy63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponyboy Your DD and BF should have the landlord over for a talk. Invite him in, sit down, coffee whatever...and discuss what is going on. The kicker is make sure you have a camera somewhere that is recording everything...sight/sound. Once the convo is over and hes about to leave thank him for stopping by and discussing...but just for safe measure the entire convo was video recorded...then ask him how that makes him feel.

Hopefully you are joking about recording a conversation without the landlord's knowledge. Maryland is a two-party consent state, so this would be illegal.

[ivinsfan]

I agree with this, I'm not sure if the comment was serious. Why escalate sometime during a simple conversation. Just ask the landlord how he would feel in your shoes and ask if he has the same video cameras at this own home.

[FUEGO]

The landlord might have had a long term plan to install security cameras and just know be getting around to finishing his plan. The current tenants happened to be the ones renting it while he's ready to complete the installation. If I was the LL I would have disclosed this prior to renting to tenants so they were on notice and okay with it. Just playing devil's advocate.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathy63 Hopefully you are joking about recording a conversation without the landlord's knowledge. Maryland is a two-party consent state, so this would be illegal.

I worked in law enforcement in MD and can confirm this. (BTW, they did give me more than one bullet.) DO NOT record any conversations unless all parties know about it ahead of time. It is a criminal, not civil, violation. While unlikely, some parts of MD are conservative enough that one or both could be looking at jail time for that.

My suggestion would be to first discuss with LL what his objective/concern is. It may also be worthwhile to discuss with a local attorney exactly what the civil law is regarding rented property and cameras so they know exactly what their rights are, not what the "common wisdom" says. For initial consultations like that most attorneys charge very little or often nothing. It might be worth $50-$100 to know exactly where they stand, not only on the camera issue, but exactly what events constitute a "constructive eviction" in MD and things like that.

[Philliefan33]

Update: It appears that the couple who own the property are not in agreement about the details of the security cameras. Sounds like the wife mentioned putting in cameras to monitor the horses and the coming/going of people to the pasture, and her husband decided that if he's going to put in cameras, lets monitor everything. Wife found out about his plans, agrees with the tenants that having cameras that can see the tenants on the patio or in the garage, etc., is not necessary.

The landlords are discussing between themselves, DH and BF are waiting and hoping that the wife prevails.

[MichaelB]

That's an interesting development. Hopefully common sense will prevail.

[Amethyst]

IANAL but the 4th amendment protects Americans from "unreasonable search." Cameras continually pointed at your home would surely qualify. The Constitution outranks any lease.

[Cricky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst IANAL but the 4th amendment protects Americans from "unreasonable search." Cameras continually pointed at your home would surely qualify. The Constitution outranks any lease.

The Fourth Amendment protects us from the government making unreasonable intrusions into our privacy and freedom. Is the landlord a governmental authority, or acting as one? That seems unlikely.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliefan33 Update: It appears that the couple who own the property are not in agreement about the details of the security cameras. Sounds like the wife mentioned putting in cameras to monitor the horses and the coming/going of people to the pasture, and her husband decided that if he's going to put in cameras, lets monitor everything. Wife found out about his plans, agrees with the tenants that having cameras that can see the tenants on the patio or in the garage, etc., is not necessary. The landlords are discussing between themselves, DH and BF are waiting and hoping that the wife prevails.

I'm betting on the wife. Good for her.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst IANAL but the 4th amendment protects Americans from "unreasonable search." Cameras continually pointed at your home would surely qualify. The Constitution outranks any lease.

A lot of people confuse this issue. The Constitution applies to governmental actions, not private individuals. That's why Costco can search your cart on the way out of the store - when people sign the membership application they agreed to that.

In the same way, the LL can put cameras anywhere they want on property they own. The tenants are free to accept or reject that action, but I'll agree the waters get muddy when the action takes place after the lease is signed. That's why, if the LL wife in this does not prevail, I'd recommend seeing a local attorney so they'll know what their rights are. But for now since the outcome is uncertain "wait and see" is probably the better approach.

[FUEGO]

Thank goodness the LL didn't try to quarter soldiers in the rental, otherwise we'd have genuine 3rd Amendment issues.

[Lucantes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliefan33 Update: It appears that the couple who own the property are not in agreement about the details of the security cameras. Sounds like the wife mentioned putting in cameras to monitor the horses and the coming/going of people to the pasture, and her husband decided that if he's going to put in cameras, lets monitor everything. Wife found out about his plans, agrees with the tenants that having cameras that can see the tenants on the patio or in the garage, etc., is not necessary. The landlords are discussing between themselves, DH and BF are waiting and hoping that the wife prevails.

+1. It sounds like we may be heading down the path of communication, understanding and compromise, and not a single lawyer involved.....yet.

[Lucantes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO Thank goodness the LL didn't try to quarter soldiers in the rental, otherwise we'd have genuine 3rd Amendment issues.

Only if they were federal troops though right? If they were the LL's private security then there wouldn't be a 3rd Amendment issue right?

[tps7742]

The sit down for a face to face conversation would resolve allot of these concerns IMO. I feel there aren't enough ftf conversations these days and as mentioned emails can be taken differently than intended. I didn't realize there were so many conspiracy theorists with varied opinions on this site. I do realize there are bad things that do occur but in general I don't think this is the case. Good luck on your kids getting all of this settled!

[sheehs1]

I like the suggestion of a legal consult if this can not be settled reasonably.

In Virginia, in a city and in a neighborhood, I had a situation with a somewhat deranged neighbor who thought it ok to target practice at night. He shot at the outdoor cats (lots of vet bills), shot at the back windows of our cars (could not prove it) and the day I came home to find my daughters upstairs window shattered I called the police. The guys wife did not know what to do with him! He really is on all sorts of mind altering meds. He was shooting at birds without any considering for what was beyond his line of sight.

Long story short, I wanted to install security cameras and was told I could not point them at my neighbors house due to privacy issues. It was called spying. I would think your daughters LL wanting to install security cameras anywhere near the house, pointed towards a window or the outdoor living areas would be the same thing. Should not matter that he owns the property. They have a legal lease.

The guns were confiscated since he was not suppose to shoot a gun in a neighborhood in the city. Have not had a problem since….that I know of anyway.

[cyber888]

LandLord's Logic about the cameras: I want to watch my property to make sure you don't destroy it.

Renter's Logic about the cameras: Landlord could be a voyeur and is intruding into our private life after we have signed the lease. As a renter, this raises a red flag if you value privacy knowing that all camera eyes are on you.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber888 LandLord's Logic about the cameras: I want to watch my property to make sure you don't destroy it. Renter's Logic about the cameras: Landlord could be a voyeur and is intruding into our private life after we have signed the lease. As a renter, this raises a red flag if you value privacy knowing that all camera eyes are on you.

IMO, a reasonable compromised is camera allowed is areas deemed open to the public, but anywhere too private brings up images of Tony Perkins in Psycho.

[Texas Proud]

I think that if you are renting a place you have the right to NOT have a camera unless they spelled it out in the lease that they could...

I would refuse them to install... and if they did I would remove them... of course hanging on to them to give back at the end of the lease...


This is where actually reading the lease make a difference...

[Aerides]

If LL wins over his Wife, and they come back saying "yup we're putting in cameras" I would not bother with a lawyer, but with a realtor to find a new place to live. Unless they get ridiculous and won't let you break the lease...then a lawyer so you can leave with no penalty and gtfo.

But fighting to stay put sans camera with a LL who really wants it, - even if you win - who wants to keep living there? I wouldn't trust my privacy at that point.

Sometimes winning isn't really worth it.