Dating, Marriage, Kids

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by MarieIG While children certainly are a major factor in a family's finances, barring special needs children/medical issues, I think it is possible to raise children, even today without suffering from dire financial straits. Living within your means is not something to toss aside because you have children. Kiddos need a roof over their head, healthy food, a safe environment, decent schools, good fitting shoes, warm clothes, appropriate medical care, rules and loving parents. They don't need to keep up with the Jones. I recall when DS's best friend was given a new jeep his senior year in high school. DS was told he would either have to take the bus, or wait from his parents to pick him up if he stayed late. He lived. With special needs/ medical issues, all bets are off.

Special needs and medical issues are part of it, though. Having one or more kids is like playing Russian roulette: if your number comes up, blammo. You are dead financially.

As for the rest, I think you underestimate what all of that takes these days. As n example, a modest family home in my city runs in excess of half a million dollars these days. If you want to rent, you are looking at $2500/month. This isn't in the more fashionable areas of the city or anything fancy, just a low risk, ho hum suburban area with good schools. Take home pay per month for median household income is $4300 or so. Make yourself up a basic budget for a family of 4, but the rest of the paycheck just doesn't go all that far.

[street]

Who says you have to pay for school? My parents couldn't pay my way, I paid and worked. My kid did the same, he did it on his own.

As far as bring up kids today verses 60 plus years ago IMO it would be harder today. What ever, I raised mine and glad I did, he wasn't a financial burden one bit. My worry raising kids these days is what the world has come too for our young.

[Bamaman]

I'd hate to be a millennial today facing jobs with 401k's only and no defined pension. It's also difficult to get any ROE with .30% APR savings accounts and a stock market at relatively high levels. Student loan paybacks keep savings in Roth IRA's to a net zero, and it may be 35 years of age before college is paid for.

Time is any investor's best friend and so is compounding on the investments.

Driving BMW's, living in luxury apartments and spending a fortune on $1K cellphones will never allow millennials to ER. And us Baby Boomers are living longer lives and we're too busy enjoying our ER that there will not be any funds leftover for The Kids.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by street Who says you have to pay for school? My parents couldn't pay my way, I paid and worked. My kid did the same, he did it on his own.

State university costs 30k a year if you go in state. Do you really think a college kid is capable of working enough to pay these costs?

[Mr. Tightwad]

This article speaks of delaying marriage/kids. I think its avoiding the bigger issue.

People are avoiding marriage at a rate never seen before. Sure some do get married. But not like before.

Evidence: The jewelry companies Kay and Jared closing 170 stores. Davids Bridal going bankrupt. I know 2 marriage planners that found a different line of work.

Marriage rates have tumbled across the globe.

[street]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 State university costs 30k a year if you go in state. Do you really think a college kid is capable of working enough to pay these costs?

Ya >>> like I said I did and my son has done it. So ya, it can be done.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by street Ya >>> like I said I did and my son has done it. So ya, it can be done.

Selling weed? He did not do that on minimum wage while going to school full time. Big pile of debt is how most do it.

[street]

^ LOL >> what ever, you win. LOL

Not everyone has a rich daddy like you. Debt ya.

[MarieIG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 Special needs and medical issues are part of it, though. Having one or more kids is like playing Russian roulette: if your number comes up, blammo. You are dead financially. As for the rest, I think you underestimate what all of that takes these days. As n example, a modest family home in my city runs in excess of half a million dollars these days. If you want to rent, you are looking at $2500/month. This isn't in the more fashionable areas of the city or anything fancy, just a low risk, ho hum suburban area with good schools. Take home pay per month for median household income is $4300 or so. Make yourself up a basic budget for a family of 4, but the rest of the paycheck just doesn't go all that far.

I am not familiar with the cost of living in your city, however I am familiar with the costs in ours. They are too high, but a lot of that comes from taxes, insurance and utilities. As far as costs these days, I raised six and my youngest is a teenager, and we just this month removed another one from our auto insurance. And having a new granddaughter, I am familiar with the cost of diapers and baby clothes. Not cheap or easy by any stretch, but not dire
There are people however, who just don't want children, and that is their prerogative.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by street ^ LOL >> what ever, you win. LOL Not everyone has a rich daddy like you. Debt ya.

Charming. You must have lots of friends.

My point was that the average college kid isn't paying for college. They are saddling themselves with mid 5 figures of debt or better to get through in-state school. Roll back a generation and if there was debt involved the numbers were a lot smaller.

[street]

^ Let me ask you a question >>> how do you think kids go to college when there parents are just making ends meet themselves Not all parents can afford 30k to send a kid to school like you are doing for yours. So how do they go??

[MarieIG]

Tried to cut and paste this year's SUNY costs, but that was a big fail.

Sent one of mine to a nearby SUNY. He lived at home. The biggest cost was room and board, so we saved that. Yes, I paid for that so he didn't have debt.

Another one I sent to Community College for the first two years.

If you are pricing colleges right now, no doubt about it, that is a stressful time.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by street ^ Let me ask you a question >>> how do you think kids go to college when there parents are just making ends meet themselves Not all parents can afford 30k to send a kid to school like you are doing for yours. So how do they go??

Not an English major, eh?

They either don't go to/finish school or they end up in debt. Head to any browser and search "student loan debt" and read about what that implies for the people carrying it and for society as a whole. Student loan burdens that many would-be parents are carrying are yet another impediment to having kids.

[FlaGator]

What a bunch of whining, pessimistic Debbie Downers.

The utter lack of optimism about the future in this thread is disheartening. Is your life better than your parents? If not, what happened? If it is, why do you think it would not be for your kids? Haven't you been working for that, or something like it? To think it won't be the same for any offspring shows a lack of optimism about the future.

Late DW and I were married in our early 20's and didn't want kids until we were in our late 30's. The kids didn't appear until our early- to mid-40's, so understand people who don't want kids or are concerned about their impact on their lives.

If your path to ER is solely dependent upon on not having kids, so be it. There is a way to get there if you want them, as I and others have shown.

Your choice. No gain from criticizing those who take a different path from yours, or to speculate as to their choices.

[brewer12345]

So the power of positive thinking will fix the myriad problems that all boil down to cold, hard numbers? Mmm-hmm...

[FlaGator]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 So the power of positive thinking will fix the myriad problems that all boil down to cold, hard numbers? Mmm-hmm...

If this is directed at my post above, please explain the point you are trying to make.

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by FlaGator If this is directed at my post above, please explain the point you are trying to make.

You seem too be ignoring the very real impediments to younger people who would like to have a family but cannot afford to do so. "You can do it!" is not realistic.

[FlaGator]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 You seem too be ignoring the very real impediments to younger people who would like to have a family but cannot afford to do so. "You can do it!" is not realistic.

Not ignoring anything, and where did I say "you can do it!" and that it was easy? You're implying I think this is all Mary Poppins and just a snap of the fingers is all it takes.....

I said I, and others, have done it, so it's not impossible.

For the record, my wife checked out when our kids were pre-teens, and I left my job about a year later. I'm fully versed in what it takes to raise kids without a paycheck, and the sacrifices it took many years ago to be able to do so.

I work closely, on a volunteer basis, with teachers <35 who have young kids. Start making the case for how they can't do that......

[brewer12345]

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Originally Posted by FlaGator Not ignoring anything, and where did I say "you can do it!" and that it was easy? You're implying I think this is all Mary Poppins and just a snap of the fingers is all it takes..... I said I, and others, have done it, so it's not impossible. For the record, my wife checked out when our kids were pre-teens, and I left my job about a year later. I'm fully versed in what it takes to raise kids without a paycheck, and the sacrifices it took many years ago to be able to do so. I work closely, on a volunteer basis, with teachers <35 who have young kids. Start making the case for how they can't do that......

Uh, nobody was saying it was impossible. Rather, the point was being made that it is much harder than it used to be. That means fewer people in the population as a whole will be willing/able to do so. The "I did it so anyone can" thing so prevalent on this forum gets tiresome.

[FlaGator]

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 Uh, nobody was saying it was impossible. Rather, the point was being made that it is much harder than it used to be. That means fewer people in the population as a whole will be willing/able to do so. The "I did it so anyone can" thing so prevalent on this forum gets tiresome.

Don't conflate my experience and that of some people I know with "anyone can". I didn't say that. I said it's not impossible, and I did not say it was easy.

As to if it is "much harder than it used to be", I acknowledge there is room for debate, and I wouldn't pick a side. Coming from a family of 5 kids born between 1955 and 1964, I know in hindsight it wasn't easy. My 2 have it much better than I did, and I hope any kids they have enjoy as comfortable a life as they did.

Raising kids under any circumstances is not easy, and the financial impact is, shall we say, not small . The impact on the life of the parents is significant as well, and I think that should get more attention than it does.

Thanks for the exchange!