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Old 09-19-2018, 12:24 PM   #21
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I guess I would approach it this way:

When I pick you up it will be in my seven year old Camry rather than a two year old BMW. When we travel, we will go off season, stay in family owned 3-star hotels and weather permitting have a picnic for lunch. In return for this, it is my hope that by the time the kids are about 18+ we can toss the alarm clock in the trash and experience work vicariously through them.

That is pretty funny because that describes how we live, especially seeing the kids and their friends all busy with work, school or both and we have every day free. Our kids say it is like we've switched lives with them because now they have to work week days and we're going to concerts on Wednesday nights. One of their friends pointed out the other day your parents have more fun social lives than we do. The worm turns!
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:29 PM   #22
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Marrying to the wrong person is a recipe for disaster. Divorce down the line is going to cost money. I know several people who are divorced after long marriage, like 25 years and at least 3 kids together. All these people are reasonably frugal. I really don’t know what happened to their marriages, only they know.

But focusing on money is a terrible factor to focus on, let alone some other factors that maybe worthwhile to focus on, perhaps personality, intelligence, etc..
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:30 PM   #23
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That is pretty funny because that describes how we live, especially seeing the kids and their friends all busy with work, school or both and we have every day free. Our kids say it is like we've switched lives with them because now they have to work week days and we're going to concerts on Wednesday nights. One of their friends pointed out the other day your parents have more fun social lives than we do. The worm turns!
My kids go to concert on weekday too. Recently she just went to Ed Sheeran on a weekday. Not just retirees.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:36 PM   #24
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It is a common situation for a man like yourself with his priorities in order to get married to a woman who seems ok at first but then blows rabidly through his entire life's work, and then at the end divorces him and takes whatever's left.
Yep, I had to learn that the hard way. But I was somewhat lucky in that there were no children and her job paid the same as mine and had very similar benefits so there really wasn't much to argue about. And to her credit, that remains one of the more amicable divorces I've ever heard of - there was none of the "revenge-seeking" behavior so often seen. She just couldn't stand to see a dollar in the bank and liked credit cards. My sister summed it up on one sentence: "Opposites attract but they can't live with each other."

So having learned that lesson in life, when dating DW-to-be I didn't question her much about financial issues, but just paid very careful attention to what she said, and more importantly, how she behaved, when it came to dealing with finances. And we dated for three years before I even thought about marriage, and I had to think about that for another year before making a decision. Apparently it was the right choice, it's been a bit over 30 years now.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:51 PM   #25
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P.S. My husband is no longer living on sandwiches and microwaveable meals.
Hopefully hes not down to 1/2 a sandwich or 1/2 a microwave meal
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:56 PM   #26
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Hopefully hes not down to 1/2 a sandwich or 1/2 a microwave meal
Only when he sasses me!
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:59 PM   #27
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Another factor to keep in mind, coming from your peer who is navigating the same waters.

A lot of women do have similar financial goals as you, in that they want to retire rich and early--It's just that they view you and your earnings as their ticket to get there. This seems to be the rule, and not the exception.

It's not your father's dating scene out there today. Put on your investor glasses and look at dating in terms of risk vs reward. If she's female, it is smart to assume her goals are not compatible with yours.

If it's companionship, love, or loyalty you're after, there are less expensive means which will save yourself a lot of energy & risk, with better returns -- like getting a cocker spaniel.
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:21 PM   #28
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Before I went out on a date with my now-husband, I already knew that he drove used hand-me-down cars. Our first date was a movie and dinner at a modestly-priced restaurant. On our second date, I offered to pay for part of it. He refused to let me. I told him that we didn't always have to dine out. I was fine with renting a movie and ordering pizza in. So that's what we did on our second date. He'd bought a home a year earlier in an older part of a big city, not lavish, but not ghetto either. Small, less than 1000 sq. ft. He didn't even have a stove and was living mostly off of sandwiches and microwaveable stuff. None of this discouraged me. We've been married for 26 years.

Bottom line, don't try too hard to impress someone in the beginning. Even if you can afford it, don't go for the expensive meals and entertainment. See if she's OK with who you are, not how much you can spend on her.

P.S. My husband is no longer living on sandwiches and microwaveable meals.
I met my girlfriend when her friend brought her out to see my band. I didn't get a chance to talk to her much as I was busy playing and dealing with a bad PA between sets, but I did ask her out. Date 1 was a "meet and greet" that lasted 3 hours (which surprised both of us). Date 2 was a modestly priced dinner where we split the bill. After date 2 we both knew there was something there and I took her skating on the river for our 3rd date and then offered to buy her dinner.

Her response: "You don't have to spend money on me in a restaurant...why don't we pick something up at the grocery store, cook together, and then watch a movie on Netflix?"

The ones that are frugal will let it be known early and won't flinch when an inexpensive date is suggested. The goal early on is to find out about each other so meeting for a drink, a coffee, or a walk in the park is enough. I would never agree to a first date where is was expected that I'd drop big $$ on a dinner.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:07 AM   #29
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Are you only attracted to women who look great all the time? Because looking great all the time costs money, and the cost goes up as the woman ages.

Oh, and it takes time, too. Such a surprise to my first husband that I actually needed time to exercise - every day - to have that figure he so admired! He just thought it was something girls, you know, had.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:00 AM   #30
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Are you only attracted to women who look great all the time? Because looking great all the time costs money, and the cost goes up as the woman ages.
I was going to come in to say this. It's like the idiots on Instagram talking about how much they love the "natural" look, and when they post pics of "natural" women all the women reading just lose it - we can easily see the makeup and elaborate hairstyling.

So, what kind of women are you attracted to? It's hypocritical to talk about how spendy women are when you turn around and criticize the frugal ones for looking frumpy when they don't spend $$$$ on cosmetics, clothes, and heels to make themselves look like what you want.

(To be clear, that's a generic "you".)

And Jeebus, guys, knock it off with the whole "Bitches, amirite?". Saying that the majority of women are spendthrifts is sexist and moronic, because I don't see you talking about men the same way. It's not a good look for you.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:39 AM   #31
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Asking the right questions is important.

"So, how many dryer sheets do you go through in a typical month?"

"Do you know what the letters LBYM stand for?"

"When are you planning to take Social Security?"

"Are you going to finish those fries?"
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:26 AM   #32
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Bottom line, don't try too hard to impress someone in the beginning. Even if you can afford it, don't go for the expensive meals and entertainment. See if she's OK with who you are, not how much you can spend on her.
I am a male in the dating pool, and I often think about the irony of women who look for a man with means and they judge men by the car they drive or the house they live in or how they dress, when in many cases those outward status symbols are a contra-indication of wealth. Instead they usually indicate someone who is living at or above their means and using debt to prop up their lifestyle. There are men out there like me who have real wealth but who live a modest middle class lifestyle and drive a modest car and live in a non-descript middle class house. I suppose living that way is effective to keep the gold diggers away, which is a good thing, but there's no way for a like minded woman to know that I am an LBYM type who has a plan to be FI by looking at me.

At the end of the day, although gold diggers really would like to find someone who has real wealth, what they really want is someone who is willing to spend money on them so that they can have a certain lifestyle. If he runs out of money, she can just leave him and find another man who is willing to keep the gravy train rolling. So really for a gold digger it's not about how much real wealth you have, but about how much you are willing to spend to keep him/her happy, and LBYM types who have real wealth but are not willing to spend at the level they require are not what they are looking for.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:28 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by gwraigty View Post
Before I went out on a date with my now-husband, I already knew that he drove used hand-me-down cars. Our first date was a movie and dinner at a modestly-priced restaurant. On our second date, I offered to pay for part of it. He refused to let me. I told him that we didn't always have to dine out. I was fine with renting a movie and ordering pizza in. So that's what we did on our second date. He'd bought a home a year earlier in an older part of a big city, not lavish, but not ghetto either. Small, less than 1000 sq. ft. He didn't even have a stove and was living mostly off of sandwiches and microwaveable stuff. None of this discouraged me. We've been married for 26 years.

Bottom line, don't try too hard to impress someone in the beginning. Even if you can afford it, don't go for the expensive meals and entertainment. See if she's OK with who you are, not how much you can spend on her.

P.S. My husband is no longer living on sandwiches and microwaveable meals.
+1 Obviously, both of you are a prize.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:33 AM   #34
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Another factor to keep in mind, coming from your peer who is navigating the same waters.

A lot of women do have similar financial goals as you, in that they want to retire rich and early--It's just that they view you and your earnings as their ticket to get there. This seems to be the rule, and not the exception.

It's not your father's dating scene out there today. Put on your investor glasses and look at dating in terms of risk vs reward. If she's female, it is smart to assume her goals are not compatible with yours.

If it's companionship, love, or loyalty you're after, there are less expensive means which will save yourself a lot of energy & risk, with better returns -- like getting a cocker spaniel.
Ummm, wow. Sounds like you view women as the enemy- going to be hard to have a relationship that way. No one in my group of friends talks about men that way- and I have never thought of a man in terms of a meal ticket.

On the other hand, my grandmother thought like you do- my granddad died when my mom was a baby. She educated herself and saved some money. My mom said she never remarried (though she was asked) because she was afraid a man would take what she had. She died alone- but she had a dog.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:50 AM   #35
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Another factor to keep in mind, coming from your peer who is navigating the same waters.

A lot of women do have similar financial goals as you, in that they want to retire rich and early--It's just that they view you and your earnings as their ticket to get there. This seems to be the rule, and not the exception.

It's not your father's dating scene out there today. Put on your investor glasses and look at dating in terms of risk vs reward. If she's female, it is smart to assume her goals are not compatible with yours.

If it's companionship, love, or loyalty you're after, there are less expensive means which will save yourself a lot of energy & risk, with better returns -- like getting a cocker spaniel.
Do the women of the world a favor and buy yourself a dog...
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:46 AM   #36
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OP.
It's not easy dating once you reach FI either.
Finding a compatible person in a limited geographic area that is unattached at the time you are. Getting all the variables to match up at once i is proving difficult.
While I don't seem to attract gold diggers i sure seem to attract a lot of broke women. I don't mind picking up the restaurant check, but I'm not paying for her airline tickets and the whole hotel bill.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:12 AM   #37
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+1 Obviously, both of you are a prize.
Thank you.

I hope it's helpful for the OP to hear these stories.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:27 AM   #38
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Anyone, man or woman, has only 2 or 3 important things to ask themselves regarding this issue. Is marriage sometimes hard and expensive to exit? Does one or the other parties sometimes want to or need to exit? If so, are there nevertheless important reasons for me to get married and run these risks?

If you answer yes to all the above, not much choice, get married. If not, spare yourself this major risk. While it might not be a problem, many have found that it actually was.

Ha
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:52 AM   #39
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OP.
It's not easy dating once you reach FI either.
Finding a compatible person in a limited geographic area that is unattached at the time you are. Getting all the variables to match up at once i is proving difficult.
While I don't seem to attract gold diggers i sure seem to attract a lot of broke women. I don't mind picking up the restaurant check, but I'm not paying for her airline tickets and the whole hotel bill.
I agree- finding someone who shares your financial priorities is difficult at any age, and it's KEY. I know this because my first husband was a financial train wreck and my second husband and I were on the same page financially: splurge on travel, live modestly otherwise. It saved a lot of fights.

Now, as a widow, I'm still cautious. I shy away from the on-line profiles of guys who "love fine dining" and like to hang out in clubs every night. I like to pay my own way and don't want to be picking up my half of $150 restaurant tabs all the time. I'm far from poor; I'm typing this from Edinburgh where I just spent $230 on 3 bottles of scotch- but I was too cheap to pay for an Uber to my Airbnb apartment and walked 45 minutes. In the rain!

In my profile I say that I want someone financially solvent and that I'm also financially solvent. My dates have all been modest- coffee or something similar. I don't know if you're doing on-line dating but there are positive ways to explain your priorities (I believe in living below my means so I can build for the future and am looking for a woman who feels the same way). The right woman will appreciate that!
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:23 PM   #40
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Anyone, man or woman, has only 2 or 3 important things to ask themselves regarding this issue. Is marriage sometimes hard and expensive to exit? Does one or the other parties sometimes want to or need to exit? If so, are there nevertheless important reasons for me to get married and run these risks?

If you answer yes to all the above, not much choice, get married. If not, spare yourself this major risk. While it might not be a problem, many have found that it actually was.

Ha
Nicely said ....... I've been hitched for almost 50 yrs after marrying my highschool honey post college at 22 yo. So, I'm no expert on finding later-in-life relationships. But I've followed along with a couple of lifelong close buddies as they navigated these waters. Both struggled mightily as long as they were focused on finding Ms Right for marriage. Finally, both have settled into non-marriage relationships (one living with a kindred spirit he stumbled across and one having several lady friends) and seem happy that way. The gals in their lives are all pretty self-reliant, as likely to call them with an idea for a date as to be waiting by the phone for a call and seem to appreciate the advantages of having minimal encumbrances and entanglements.

OP is significantly younger than these guys, so that changes things somewhat. Still, your comments are right on. If the risks exceed the rewards, why marry when ongoing friendships and non-legal commitments will suffice?
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