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Old 10-27-2018, 10:22 AM   #21
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Midpack, have you spoken with the director of the facility to reaffirm your father’s wishes and to complain about the treatment he is receiving? Unfortunately, this might be the only way for you to help him get the attention he needs and deserves.
Yes, my sister is there and she has. I am 1200 miles away and I’ve visited of course but sister is there 3 times a day. But my Dad’s GP, hospital ER (yesterday), hospice, SNF/AL aren’t coordinating with each other. I could give the most recent example but it’s pretty gruesome, so I’ll spare you all. And we can’t imagine moving him and starting all over again at this point. My Dad should have another choice, and he would in 5-6 starters.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:24 AM   #22
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In a more general sense (but also applies here I think), if one is able, is there any reasonable way to "throw money" at this problem? To buy more comfort?

My Mom was pretty well off, and we found a very nice assisted living place for her. But considering her situation (she was not going to live for another decade or anything), she could have spent much more. But even though we are in an area of some high income zip codes, I didn't really find any "higher end" places. But they must be out there. But it really wasn't clear how to go about spending more (oddly). Seems most of these places are geared towards the majority of people with very limited funds, and try to make the most of Medicare. I recall several conversations where they said "Medicare will only pay for xyz, so...", and I'd say - well, what are the options if she pays out-of-pocket, and it seemed difficult to get an answer. I don't think they know.

The hospice people were good, but looking back, I wonder if I could have just paid for an added nurse or aid to better attend to her needs. The regular staff was pretty good (she received hospice care while she was in the Assisted Living facility), but sometimes they were stretched and my Mom would wait for someone to deal with her issues.

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Old 10-27-2018, 10:28 AM   #23
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Thanks for all your thoughts folks, honestly. But I need to unplug from this thread for a while.

I was really making a statement about death with dignity laws most of all, they should exist in all 50 states for some circumstances IMO.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:34 PM   #24
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I'm with you on this Midpack and the programs should be accessible to real people in real time. DC passed a death with dignity act almost two years ago. About six months ago when the Washington Post reported that not a single person had yet to use it and only two doctors had signed up. The Post said local health officials put too many barriers in the way for almost anyone to get through. DC officials often over-reacts to the potential for Congress to intervene on any Home Rule actions that are the least bit controversial. I agree when the conservative approach moves the ball forward in the face of a possible Congressional veto but this seems like a complete standstill. Why bother.
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Old 10-27-2018, 12:54 PM   #25
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Midpack....

What state is your dad in?

We had no trouble in regard to MIL's deteriorating health and "letting her go" here in Illinois. MIL (in a NH) had DNR and "no hospital" directives in place along with a hospice evaluation. This was after a series of 3 - 5 day trips to the hospital took place over a few months. She was kept comfortable and passed peacefully.

Has your dad been evaluated by hospice? How did your discussions with his doc's and caregivers concerning palliative care go? Does he have a single doc considered to be "his doc?"

Just curious, is your dad in a private pay or Medicaid situation?
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Old 10-27-2018, 01:27 PM   #26
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That's just terrible Midpack. Hospice is supposed to be able to coordinate all that stuff. That mistakes are being made that increasing your father's suffering - that's just horrible!
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Old 10-27-2018, 01:30 PM   #27
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I'm a believer in death with dignity act and I hope for the best for all of you.
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Old 10-27-2018, 01:54 PM   #28
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You can add Hawaii to the list of states with DWD laws. Just passed this year.
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Old 10-27-2018, 02:03 PM   #29
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I agree DWD should be available everywhere. Doesn't mean people have to use it, but those who want to can.
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Old 10-28-2018, 09:37 AM   #30
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I also agree with DWD being available to all and donated to the cause to get it passed in CA. However I think the “safeguards” are still too strong. In CA at least, one must be able to self administer a series of up to 32 pills that are taken at multiple different times, according to a legal seminar I attended on this topic. And your doc must say you’re within six months of death from a terminal illness.

I think anyone suffering chronic severe pain who wants to end their life should have that option, and should be able to legally direct someone to assist them if they’re not able to self administer.

I’ve heard that Switzerland and Norway make it a bit easier but don’t know the details.
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Old 10-28-2018, 09:59 AM   #31
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I’ve heard that Switzerland and Norway make it a bit easier but don’t know the details.
Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/424545...c-switzerland/
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:12 AM   #32
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Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/424545...c-switzerland/
My Dad’s situation has me thinking about what I’ll do at his age, but that could be 30+ years from now.
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:14 AM   #33
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In addition to the small number of US states, voluntary euthanasia and/or doctor-assisted suicide is legally available in Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, and Switzerland.
Assisted Dying In Other Countries
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Old 10-28-2018, 11:25 AM   #34
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Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.
Switzerland does not require that the person be dying, assisted suicide is allowed for anyone who wants it. You must be interviewed by 2 psychiatrists is all. I think it is a bit pricey, but I suppose at that point what do you care?

I hope that if I ever go down the path of Alzheimer's or dementia that I have the awareness to put an end to it. Carbon monoxide is pretty effective, very poisonous, quick and readily available.
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Old 10-28-2018, 11:55 AM   #35
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Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/424545...c-switzerland/
My wife and I live in Switzerland and are members of Dignitas, with an eye to potentially using their services if it ever came to that. Meanwhile we support their activities because we believe in their mission and how they approach it.

They counsel you, the client, from the start and try to steer you toward a hoped for objective of *not* offing yourself; but then, if they feel you are certain and two different doctors have signed off after examinations, they will come to your home (or hotel room, I think) and set up the apparatus for introduction to your system a lethal drug that your doctor has prescribed for you.

However, they are very strict on one thing: only the person who is the client may activate the drug flow. Otherwise, it's murder instead of suicide. Your family or close friends can help in all other ways except this crucial one, as far as I understand.

The Swiss government got a bit antsy about the previous single doctor rule and doubled it as a precaution. After the death, Dignitas stays with the body and notifies the police and signs the statement about what happened. They can also handle the, erm,...disposition of your mortal coil, per your wishes.

We came home from a holiday out of town last year to find that our upstairs neighbor used Dignitas while we were away. It was very sad to learn about her demise, but we were glad that she had the option.

When my wife's father, in the US, was very ill with dementia we had a visit with him from his gerontologist who said, "We doctors are very good at keeping organs alive; but sometimes to the detriment of the whole person." He asked FIL if he wanted to die with dignity or via heroic measures that would be painful and drawn out, and where the end would be the same. FIL chose the former and when, later that year, his condition really deteriorated and he felt he couldn't go on anymore, he just stopped eating and drinking, refused medication, and was gone in three days. He was a brilliant university professor of electrical engineering (who invented satellite telephony), who bowed out with as much dignity as he was able to command. We felt glad for that, at least; but recognized FIL's luck in getting an exceptionally understanding physician.

Here is the Dignitas link in English: Home

-BB
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:50 PM   #36
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Offing yourself is never a good idea.
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Old 10-28-2018, 02:57 PM   #37
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Offing yourself is never a good idea.
You need to think about that some more.

During my mom's last couple of years, there were so many days when she would say to me "I'd give anything if I could just go to sleep and not wake up."

It broke my heart but there was nothing I could do.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:54 PM   #38
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Offing yourself is never a good idea.
You and anyone else would be free to adhere to that choice.

But WADR why should uninterested strangers decide for others? Why should people with no hope of recovery be forced to suffer for days-weeks-months-years? It would be a personal decision, strictly voluntary and other states and countries have already figured out how to avoid anything involuntary. Again, IMO it should be allowed in all 50 states, with strict appropriate controls.

Let’s not devolve into politics, but we have the death penalty in over half the states and abortion in all of them, yet only 5-6 states where voluntary death with dignity is an option?
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:58 PM   #39
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Offing yourself is never a good idea.
I accept your opinion, but I differ because I am not in favor of needless suffering for myself or anyone I care about.
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:42 PM   #40
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Offing yourself is never a good idea.
But the real question here is whether you believe it is nevertheless the right of every person to decide his/her own destiny? Maybe it is not a good idea, but it is my idea, not yours, and what I do with my ideas is my business, not yours. Yes?
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