Death With Dignity Laws Should Be Enacted In All States

[audreyh1]

That's just terrible Midpack. Hospice is supposed to be able to coordinate all that stuff. That mistakes are being made that increasing your father's suffering - that's just horrible!

 

[street]

I'm a believer in death with dignity act and I hope for the best for all of you.

 

[TwoByFour]

You can add Hawaii to the list of states with DWD laws. Just passed this year.

 

[MRG]

I agree DWD should be available everywhere. Doesn't mean people have to use it, but those who want to can.

 

[Scuba]

I also agree with DWD being available to all and donated to the cause to get it passed in CA. However I think the “safeguards” are still too strong. In CA at least, one must be able to self administer a series of up to 32 pills that are taken at multiple different times, according to a legal seminar I attended on this topic. And your doc must say you’re within six months of death from a terminal illness.

I think anyone suffering chronic severe pain who wants to end their life should have that option, and should be able to legally direct someone to assist them if they’re not able to self administer.

I’ve heard that Switzerland and Norway make it a bit easier but don’t know the details.

 

[Silver]

I’ve heard that Switzerland and Norway make it a bit easier but don’t know the details.

Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4245459/dignitas-assisted-dying-clinic-switzerland/

 

[Midpack]

Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4245459/dignitas-assisted-dying-clinic-switzerland/

My Dad’s situation has me thinking about what I’ll do at his age, but that could be 30+ years from now.

 

[braumeister]

In addition to the small number of US states, voluntary euthanasia and/or doctor-assisted suicide is legally available in Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, and Switzerland.
Assisted Dying In Other Countries

 

[TwoByFour]

Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.

Switzerland does not require that the person be dying, assisted suicide is allowed for anyone who wants it. You must be interviewed by 2 psychiatrists is all. I think it is a bit pricey, but I suppose at that point what do you care?

I hope that if I ever go down the path of Alzheimer's or dementia that I have the awareness to put an end to it. Carbon monoxide is pretty effective, very poisonous, quick and readily available.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

Dignitas is one Swiss organization in that supports assisted suicide, which is legal in Switzerland although their laws do provide structure. You do not need to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, which is why I keep up with their news. It is my long range plan.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4245459/dignitas-assisted-dying-clinic-switzerland/

My wife and I live in Switzerland and are members of Dignitas, with an eye to potentially using their services if it ever came to that. Meanwhile we support their activities because we believe in their mission and how they approach it.

They counsel you, the client, from the start and try to steer you toward a hoped for objective of *not* offing yourself; but then, if they feel you are certain and two different doctors have signed off after examinations, they will come to your home (or hotel room, I think) and set up the apparatus for introduction to your system a lethal drug that your doctor has prescribed for you.

However, they are very strict on one thing: only the person who is the client may activate the drug flow. Otherwise, it's murder instead of suicide. Your family or close friends can help in all other ways except this crucial one, as far as I understand.

The Swiss government got a bit antsy about the previous single doctor rule and doubled it as a precaution. After the death, Dignitas stays with the body and notifies the police and signs the statement about what happened. They can also handle the, erm,...disposition of your mortal coil, per your wishes.

We came home from a holiday out of town last year to find that our upstairs neighbor used Dignitas while we were away. It was very sad to learn about her demise, but we were glad that she had the option.

When my wife's father, in the US, was very ill with dementia we had a visit with him from his gerontologist who said, "We doctors are very good at keeping organs alive; but sometimes to the detriment of the whole person." He asked FIL if he wanted to die with dignity or via heroic measures that would be painful and drawn out, and where the end would be the same. FIL chose the former and when, later that year, his condition really deteriorated and he felt he couldn't go on anymore, he just stopped eating and drinking, refused medication, and was gone in three days. He was a brilliant university professor of electrical engineering (who invented satellite telephony), who bowed out with as much dignity as he was able to command. We felt glad for that, at least; but recognized FIL's luck in getting an exceptionally understanding physician.

Here is the Dignitas link in English: Home

-BB

 

[mickeyd]

Offing yourself is never a good idea.

 

[braumeister]

Offing yourself is never a good idea.

You need to think about that some more.

During my mom's last couple of years, there were so many days when she would say to me "I'd give anything if I could just go to sleep and not wake up."

It broke my heart but there was nothing I could do.

 

[Midpack]

Offing yourself is never a good idea.

You and anyone else would be free to adhere to that choice.

But WADR why should uninterested strangers decide for others? Why should people with no hope of recovery be forced to suffer for days-weeks-months-years? It would be a personal decision, strictly voluntary and other states and countries have already figured out how to avoid anything involuntary. Again, IMO it should be allowed in all 50 states, with strict appropriate controls.

Let’s not devolve into politics, but we have the death penalty in over half the states and abortion in all of them, yet only 5-6 states where voluntary death with dignity is an option?

 

[Silver]

Offing yourself is never a good idea.

I accept your opinion, but I differ because I am not in favor of needless suffering for myself or anyone I care about.

 

[TwoByFour]

Offing yourself is never a good idea.

But the real question here is whether you believe it is nevertheless the right of every person to decide his/her own destiny? Maybe it is not a good idea, but it is my idea, not yours, and what I do with my ideas is my business, not yours. Yes?

 

[Texas Proud]

He is in hospice now, in a skilled nursing facility. But the hospice folks and the SNF haven’t been on the same page, they just made a colossal week long mistake so bad my Dad was crying because of the pain one morning despite morphine. The medical professionals have done some good things and they have good intentions, but they aren’t coordinating with each other - my sister has caught lots of mistakes, some were avoided but some were after the fact. This morning another new nurse appeared who didn’t know anything about my Dad, my sister had to intervene - and he and Medicare/Tricare are paying $ for this? My Dad will pass away, helpless, after weeks in pain. Why?

Again, I’m not at all cavalier about death with dignity laws, but there’s no good reason I can think of to put my Dad through this - he is begging for it to end.

Sorry to her about your Dad....


When my mom was in SNF they had a Dr who would prescribe whatever they thought was 'good' even though they never came by to see her... it started with her visit to the hospital and that Dr who never was around to talk to (and all the nurses said she did it to them also) changed a bunch of my mom's med to meds she like better... then SNF doc changed a few more... they left her in bed to rot... but getting the $289 per day plus rehab fees... my sister (and RN) said it is a well known racket in Texas and there is nothing that you can do as they will ignore you requests and do as they want...


At least my mom is not in pain.... just having problems getting around and swelling..



But I do agree with you... when my dad had cancer throughout his body he wanted it to end... so he ended it.... he always said he did not want to die in a hospital and he did not...

 

[Scuba]

I accept your opinion, but I differ because I am not in favor of needless suffering for myself or anyone I care about.

I agree with you, Silver.

 

[Scuba]

My wife and I live in Switzerland and are members of Dignitas, with an eye to potentially using their services if it ever came to that. Meanwhile we support their activities because we believe in their mission and how they approach it.

They counsel you, the client, from the start and try to steer you toward a hoped for objective of *not* offing yourself; but then, if they feel you are certain and two different doctors have signed off after examinations, they will come to your home (or hotel room, I think) and set up the apparatus for introduction to your system a lethal drug that your doctor has prescribed for you.

However, they are very strict on one thing: only the person who is the client may activate the drug flow. Otherwise, it's murder instead of suicide. Your family or close friends can help in all other ways except this crucial one, as far as I understand.

The Swiss government got a bit antsy about the previous single doctor rule and doubled it as a precaution. After the death, Dignitas stays with the body and notifies the police and signs the statement about what happened. They can also handle the, erm,...disposition of your mortal coil, per your wishes.

We came home from a holiday out of town last year to find that our upstairs neighbor used Dignitas while we were away. It was very sad to learn about her demise, but we were glad that she had the option.

When my wife's father, in the US, was very ill with dementia we had a visit with him from his gerontologist who said, "We doctors are very good at keeping organs alive; but sometimes to the detriment of the whole person." He asked FIL if he wanted to die with dignity or via heroic measures that would be painful and drawn out, and where the end would be the same. FIL chose the former and when, later that year, his condition really deteriorated and he felt he couldn't go on anymore, he just stopped eating and drinking, refused medication, and was gone in three days. He was a brilliant university professor of electrical engineering (who invented satellite telephony), who bowed out with as much dignity as he was able to command. We felt glad for that, at least; but recognized FIL's luck in getting an exceptionally understanding physician.

Here is the Dignitas link in English: Home

-BB

Thank you for sharing this link. The explanation of their process is very thorough. Apparently one doesn’t have to be a resident of Switzerland to use their services, but it is a process that takes some time and it sounds as though there are multiple opportunities to confirm or reverse one’s decision before the decision to end life is carried out.

 

[CaptTom]

I think anyone who's watched a loved one suffer needlessly understands that there should be better options.

I really don't understand why anyone would oppose the concept of death with dignity. Is it just a personal fear of dying? Mistrust of doctors and family who might have evil intent?

I know some have mentioned the fear of making a mistake. I get the point. But it seems to me the risk is very small, compared to the very large risk of being kept alive, suffering and with no prospects for any quality of life ahead.

It also seems a little selfish. I've always tried to contribute something to the lives of friends and family, and to society in general. When I can no longer do that, my job here will be done. No need to hang around just to prove I can keep breathing, as some kind of a living trophy to medical science. No need to burden my family.

 

[Midpack]

I think anyone who's watched a loved one suffer needlessly understands that there should be better options.

I really don't understand why anyone would oppose the concept of death with dignity. Is it just a personal fear of dying? Mistrust of doctors and family who might have evil intent?

I know some have mentioned the fear of making a mistake. I get the point. But it seems to me the risk is very small, compared to the very large risk of being kept alive, suffering and with no prospects for any quality of life ahead.

It also seems a little selfish. I've always tried to contribute something to the lives of friends and family, and to society in general. When I can no longer do that, my job here will be done. No need to hang around just to prove I can keep breathing, as some kind of a living trophy to medical science. No need to burden my family.

Well said, thanks.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I am sorry to hear of this, and I do agree that these laws should change. In the case of my Dad, his choice was very, VERY clear. When it appeared that his end was near, we discussed his wishes again and he was able to die with dignity. He suffered from COPD (as did my Mom) but with some added complications. In the end, he decided to stop eating and drinking and ultimately died from terminal dehydration. We had read many, many scholarly articles about this "mode of death" and although there was some conflicting information, the overall consensus is that it's not that bad of a way to check out. I was apprehensive initially, but in the end, it was the best choice he could have made. The last couple of hours were a very quiet slumber and eventually he just stopped breathing. No wet "lungs" or difficult cheynes stokes breathing that my Mom had.

Nonetheless, for a person to make this choice, there has to be a living will/advanced directive that would allow for this. And, it can be tough for a family to respect the wishes of the sick. However, in a hospice situation, it shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Our society often allows us to be much more merciful to our pets than to our people.

 

[pb4uski]

I'm somewhat familiar with Vermont's death with dignity law and requirements... BIL is a doc and I recall us discussing it when it was enacted. The requirements are strict, as they should be, and there are a number of hoops that a patient needs to jump through before receiving a perscription for medication.

http://www.healthvermont.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/Act39_faq.pdf

In the first 4 years, roughly 7-8 people a year took advantage of the new law... a number of others died from the underlying causes .

https://legislature.vermont.gov/ass...atient-Choice-Legislative-Report-12-14-17.pdf

 

[ncbill]

When my mom was in SNF they had a Dr who would prescribe whatever they thought was 'good' even though they never came by to see her... it started with her visit to the hospital and that Dr who never was around to talk to (and all the nurses said she did it to them also) changed a bunch of my mom's med to meds she like better... then SNF doc changed a few more... they left her in bed to rot... but getting the $289 per day plus rehab fees... my sister (and RN) said it is a well known racket in Texas and there is nothing that you can do as they will ignore you requests and do as they want...

From the OP's post I'm guessing dad never designated an advanced directive for health care.

I.e., there's no health care agent with the final legal authority to make medical decisions.

So if Dad develops something that could be cured, they still send him to the hospital...

The way our local Hospice solved the quoted dilemma was to have Hospice put as primary medical, so in my case we're not using a facility's doctor, but Hospice instead.

Plus my loved one does have a health care power of attorney with myself named as health care agent, so if they can't express their wishes I do have the final say as to what medications or other medical treatments they receive.

 

[Midpack]

From the OP's post I'm guessing dad never designated an advanced directive for health care.

I.e., there's no health care agent with the final legal authority to make medical decisions.

So if Dad develops something that could be cured, they still send him to the hospital...

The way our local Hospice solved the quoted dilemma was to have Hospice put as primary medical, so in my case we're not using a facility's doctor, but Hospice instead.

Plus my loved one does have a health care power of attorney with myself named as health care agent, so if they can't express their wishes I do have the final say as to what medications or other medical treatments they receive.

That would be false, my parents have had advanced medical directives documented since 2002 and provided us hard copies, and they reinforced that many, many times in "family meetings." My sister and I both have POA and MPOA, documented since 2002. In my Dad's case, my sister shared his wishes with documentation with everyone involved. But with so many involved between EMT's, ER's, hospital, Dad's personal GP, AL, SNF, and hospice - people kept violating my Dad's directions and prolonging his pain, even when he told them himself early on. Later on he wasn't able to tell them. My sister caught dozens of mistakes, some very serious, and bad decisions by well meaning but uninformed HC professionals but she couldn't be there 24/7 (though she tried).

My Dad passed away Sun night, ultimately he had to decline food and water and take morphine and other meds throughout, and my sister had to be there or on call 24/7 to enforce his wishes. IMO, he/sister shouldn't have had to resort to such drastic measures. In the end, it was beyond difficult/impossible for us to honor our Dad's specific directions. We're sad, and relieved for his sake.