Earth just rang like a bell

[Sunset]

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Originally Posted by Winemaker I,too, find measurements like this to be interesting. Relative to what? How was the measurement taken? By a physical survey? GPS? What is the margin of error? It's similar to temperature claims that it is 1.9 degree warmer than 100 years ago. The digital thermometer wasn't invented until 1977, and when was it put into widespread use? Analog thermometers were marked off in increments of 2 degrees, and 99.9% of temp readings prior to 1980 were all even numbers.

I find it hard to believe analog thermometers are such, probably as I used some in the lab, long mercury ones as they are more accurate than alcohol ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermometer


"According to British Standards, correctly calibrated, used and maintained liquid-in-glass thermometers can achieve a measurement uncertainty of ±0.01 °C in the range 0 to 100 °C, and a larger uncertainty outside this range: ±0.05 °C up to 200 or down to −40 °C, ±0.2 °C up to 450 or down to −80 °C.[42]"

[Winemaker]

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Originally Posted by Mr._Graybeard Maybe you need to seek out some better journalism. What articles are you referring to? Seems like you're mixing flaws in reporting with uncertainty of the facts. According to National Geographic, "Since mid-July, GPS stations on the island have tracked it sliding more than 2.4 inches to the east and 1.2 inches to the south, according data from Institut National de L’information Géographique et Forestière. Using these measurements, Pierre Briole of the Ecole Normale Supérieure in Paris estimated that a magma body that measures about a third of a cubic mile is squishing its way through the subsurface near Mayotte." https://relay.nationalgeographic.com...-earth-geology

Now that makes more sense. The first articles I read were the one listed in the first post of this thread. I did not go any further than that. I suspected magma inflation as it moves Yellowstone Nat'l Park and both volcanoes on the Big Island all the time. One article implied that the movement occurred during this sound anomaly, not over a period of months.

Also, the original article I read has been edited to quantify the movement. They must have read my complaint here on the E-R forum.

[Winemaker]

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Originally Posted by Sunset I find it hard to believe analog thermometers are such, probably as I used some in the lab, long mercury ones as they are more accurate than alcohol ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermometer "According to British Standards, correctly calibrated, used and maintained liquid-in-glass thermometers can achieve a measurement uncertainty of ±0.01 °C in the range 0 to 100 °C, and a larger uncertainty outside this range: ±0.05 °C up to 200 or down to −40 °C, ±0.2 °C up to 450 or down to −80 °C.[42]"

The issue isn't necessarily the accuracy of thermometers but their scales and calibration of old, how they were read, and their consistency. Fahrenheit originally used the freezing point of water (32 degrees, ice water in a bucket), a midpoint temp of a live human body (assumed 100 degrees then, but now accepted as 98.6), and the boiling point of water (212 degrees, at sea level at normal atmospheric pressure). Was the water used in all cases distilled?

But I digress. Accepted world wide temps have only been recorded since 1880, I believe by treaty. And all of those numbers from 1880 to 1980, had to be corrected to make up for those inconsistencies, and accurate climate studies must show how they make their corrections. Only specialized thermometers of those times were broken down into tenths, let alone individual whole numbers. Temps taken at sea were merely readings taken out of a bucket thrown overboard. It wasn't until the 1940's, that they used the inlet water for engine cooling.

Even with modern studies, when a "yearly temp" is given, to say it's "80.02 degrees" it can only be +/- 0.1 degrees, within defined degrees of accuracy.

[CaptTom]

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Originally Posted by Winemaker The issue isn't necessarily the accuracy of thermometers but their scales and calibration of old, how they were read, and their consistency.... But I digress. Accepted world wide temps have only been recorded since 1880, I believe by treaty. And all of those numbers from 1880 to 1980, had to be corrected to make up for those inconsistencies, and accurate climate studies must show how they make their corrections... Even with modern studies, when a "yearly temp" is given, to say it's "80.02 degrees" it can only be +/- 0.1 degrees, within defined degrees of accuracy.

I don't see where you're going with this line of reasoning.

Are you saying that no-one can reliably measure world-wide changes in temperature over time? I thought you agreed in post #37 that you weren't disputing those facts.

I'd also like to learn more about where you heard about "accepted world temps." I'm not aware of any serious scientific uncertainty in that area.

I'd come back to what Mr. Graybeard suggested...

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Originally Posted by Mr._Graybeard Maybe you need to seek out some better journalism. What articles are you referring to? Seems like you're mixing flaws in reporting with uncertainty of the facts.

[Mr._Graybeard]

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Originally Posted by Winemaker Also, the original article I read has been edited to quantify the movement. They must have read my complaint here on the E-R forum.

That's the nature of reporting in the Internet age. Get the story up fast, even if it's incomplete. You have to treat every story like it's a report on a natural disaster (and I guess this is a natural phenomenon), with information dribbling out over time.

[Winemaker]

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Originally Posted by CaptTom I don't see where you're going with this line of reasoning. Are you saying that no-one can reliably measure world-wide changes in temperature over time? I thought you agreed in post #37 that you weren't disputing those facts. I'd also like to learn more about where you heard about "accepted world temps." I'm not aware of any serious scientific uncertainty in that area. I'd come back to what Mr. Graybeard suggested...

My original complaint that the original article reported was there was movement, 5 cm. It gave no references whatsoever, and inferred that the movement was recently discovered after this seismic noise.

I then made a comparison about the recordings of temperature, and how they make certain claims but give no references. I mistakenly gave the example of a thermometer, which obviously roused some folk's feathers. Perhaps I should have used a watch or a clock, which are/have been accurate, but cannot be absolutely synchronized together in one's house.

Accepted world temperature standards began in 1880, when reasonably reliable instrumentation and standards were set. Data was first recorded, starting in the 1850's, but is generally not used. Data from the 1880's is used, but is corrected to certain algorithms, and is generally referenced in scientific reports, but not in everyday magazine articles.

[CaptTom]

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Originally Posted by Winemaker My original complaint that the original article reported was there was movement, 5 cm. It gave no references whatsoever, and inferred that the movement was recently discovered after this seismic noise...

Understood. I see how this got off track, sorry.

But now that we're here, I'm still confused...

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Originally Posted by Winemaker Accepted world temperature standards began in 1880, when reasonably reliable instrumentation and standards were set. Data was first recorded, starting in the 1850's, but is generally not used. Data from the 1880's is used, but is corrected to certain algorithms, and is generally referenced in scientific reports, but not in everyday magazine articles.

I fully admit to having virtually no first-hand knowledge in this area. I'm not a meteorologist, or climate scientist, or all that familiar with all the jargon in those fields. I honestly don't know what the "accepted world temperature standards" you keep referring to are.

Or why exactly what they would be relevant to.

[ls99]

The earth rang. Would that be one ringy dingy? Was Lily Tomlin at the switchboard?

[HFWR]

I heard it ring, but let it go to voicemail...

[Winemaker]

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Originally Posted by CaptTom Understood. I see how this got off track, sorry. But now that we're here, I'm still confused... I fully admit to having virtually no first-hand knowledge in this area. I'm not a meteorologist, or climate scientist, or all that familiar with all the jargon in those fields. I honestly don't know what the "accepted world temperature standards" you keep referring to are. Or why exactly what they would be relevant to.

The point there I was trying to make was just because you found a logged temperature in a ship's records from last 50, 75 or 100 years ago, it does not mean that it is an accepted temperature to be used for any credible study. Furthermore, I cannot get a thermometer from Walmart, although it may be somewhat accurate, and use it in a scientific study. It currently has to be approved by the National Institute of Standards and Technology; and they have certain levels of approval.

I'm sorry I'm not making myself clear.

[NW-Bound]

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Originally Posted by Helena . Curiouser and Curiouser... Strange worldwide seismic event on Nov 11, 2018... originating from Mayotte Island [off the coast of Africa]... which belongs to France, is called the "Island of Death" and is now suffering massive illegal alien invasion... around the time world leaders had gathered in France to memorialize the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 [Nov 11, 1918.] ... " Mayotte, one of the four islands in the Comoros archipelago, used to be a French Overseas Territory but now is part of France, the 101st departement of the Republic ... Most recently, the racial tension on Mayotte boiled over resulting in anti-immigration groups deporting hundreds of Comorans from their village homes as they protested what they called "clandestine immigration". Since visas to enter Mayotte were introduced in 1995, thousands of islanders from Grande Comore, Anjouan and Moheli have drowned trying to get there... ... Protests against the economic crisis and illegal immigrants from the Comoros islands have paralysed the island. Mayotte has been in turmoil since mid-February, with roadblocks, a general strike and protests. " ...

I never knew about this small archipelago near Madagascar and the controversy regarding the split when 3 of the islands wanted and gained independence from France, while the 4th one, Mayotte, voted to be part of France. So, I spent some time researching this subject and here's my synopsis.

Despite the protest of the other 3 islands and the condemnation of the UN that France did not let Mayotte go, the people of Mayotte have had a much better life since the referendum in 1974, while the independent islands suffered economic hardship, plus multiple coups averaging one every 2 years. People of the Comoros have been risking their life on crowded boats to come to Mayotte to seek a better life, despite being rejected and hated by the people of Mayotte.

So, it looks like independence is not all that great when you are a poor country and without a stable political system. This is a very interesting serendipitous history lesson for me.

We are now back to the earth ringing phenomenon...

[Mr._Graybeard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URAqnM1PP5E

[redduck]

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Originally Posted by Winemaker ...I'm sorry I'm not making myself clear.

Hey, for a guy who spent half his life underground and then came to the surface to root for the Steelers, I think you are doing just fine.

[Winemaker]

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Originally Posted by redduck Hey, for a guy who spent half his life underground and then came to the surface to root for the Steelers, I think you are doing just fine.

Well, around here you were born to root for the Steelers. I am glad that you understand my educated ramblings.

[CaptTom]

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Originally Posted by Winemaker The point there I was trying to make was just because you found a logged temperature in a ship's records from last 50, 75 or 100 years ago, it does not mean that it is an accepted temperature to be used for any credible study... I'm sorry I'm not making myself clear.

Good points. What's not clear is that I don't recall anyone suggesting we did - or should - use an old ship's record or a WalMart thermometer for anything.

[NW-Bound]

Mystery solved!

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These Very Long Period signals, called VLPs, are harmonic and low, reminiscent of a double bass or large bell. And their 20- to 30-minute signals could be detected hundreds of miles away. The earthquakes and signals were coming from about 22 miles off the eastern coast of the island. Researchers couldn't see any signs of volcanic activity in this area, but they suspected that magmatic processes may be forming one. Unfortunately, there was no seismic network on this part of the ocean floor, meaning they were only able to get measurements from the island, Madagascar and Africa. But they noticed a lowering of the island's surface by seven inches, indicating activity linked to the earthquakes. New seismological methods developed by the researchers helped them piece together a year-long timeline to reconstruct what happened. Their study published this week in the journal Nature Geoscience. The first phase involved magma rapidly rising from a reservoir in the mantle 18 miles below the Earth's surface. This opened a channel in the ocean floor, allowing the magma to flow and begin forming a new underwater volcano. An oceanographic campaign in May 2019 showed that a volcano had formed in the same spot. During the formation of the underwater volcano, earthquake activity dropped, and the ground of Mayotte lowered. Then, the VLP signals began. "We interpret this as a sign of the collapse of the deep magma chamber off the coast of Mayotte," said Eleonora Rivalta, study co-author from the German Research Center for Geosciences GFZ. "It is the deepest and largest magma reservoir in the upper mantle to date, which is beginning to empty abruptly."

See: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...2oY?li=BBnb7Kz

[HFWR]

It was Johnny B. Goode...