Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Electric Car!
Old 11-05-2012, 04:03 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 3,340
Electric Car!

Last week we (mostly DW) picked up a new 2012 Ford Focus Electric car. We have had a ball with it, put several hundred miles on it now and no issues so far. We are using 110 power but may add a 240 charging station if it becomes compelling. We are having our elecrtic service upgraded from 100 to 200 amps soon so this might be the opportunity. We also have found a couple places for 'free' electric but it still takes too long to be convenient. IMHO this is a great city car, maybe the only one needed if living in NYC, Chicago, SF but we are in LA which is pretty spread out. In the first week we did not use our 'regular' car. The big issue will be range which is estmitated at 76 miles. We have distance driving covered by our Jeep Liberty diesel so we are hoping this combination will be effective. We test drove the Mitsubishi and really disliked it, drove more like a golf cart than a car. The Focus is really solid and comfortable. Certainly Ford is not selling a lot of them so there are some real deals out there. We leased our for 3 years as we are not sure about the technology. But if it goes like the first week then we are likely to have one in our permanent fleet.
Now if Nords drops by and installs some solar panels we will have everything covered.
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-05-2012, 04:26 PM   #2
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,169
Good report.
When we get our next car it will be a plug in electric. (And we'll get solar panels at the same time.) I'm looking at the Nissan Leaf - a few friends have them.
Our other car would continue to be my highlander hybrid... which is easier on gas than most SUVs and works fine for distance since it still has a combustion engine. Plus its big enough to haul kids and their "stuff".
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 07:21 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakers View Post
The big issue will be range which is estmitated at 76 miles.
That range issue is still a big deal for me. Even though the vast, vast majority of my drives are very much under that, I don't like the idea that I would be limited, and have to choose another car, and plan ahead for that. And some things can't be planned for. Plus, that range can go way down with heater, A/C, or getting stuck in traffic.

If you drive out 25 miles, you might think you will be fine with the 25 miles back. But maybe you get a call, and would like to make a side trip. Mmmm, another 10 miles out and back? Getting iffy, what if traffic is bad, etc.

Recently, my daughter drove back from college, and she had a problem with her car that Sunday as she was ready to head back - I just let her borrow mine, and got hers fixed that week. If I drove an EV, I could not have done that, it wouldn't get her 1/3rd of the way there.

Sure, those are rare occurrences, but after I put that much money into a car, I want to be able to use when I want to use it, not when it fits a 76 mile range limit that could be a lot less, and I like to plan for the worst case. Not very flexible.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 07:42 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Naples
Posts: 2,179
Something I am going to consider in our next car is the electric. I'm not familiar with the Ford Focus and I'm wondering if it is anything like the Chevy Volt where you have a standby system (small gasoline engine) to get you further than the published mileage on battery power alone. I don't thnk I would like anything that has a definite mileage limit based on the charge alone. Does the Ford Focus have a system similar to the Volt?
JOHNNIE36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 07:50 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
That range issue is still a big deal for me. Even though the vast, vast majority of my drives are very much under that, I don't like the idea that I would be limited, and have to choose another car, and plan ahead for that. And some things can't be planned for. Plus, that range can go way down with heater, A/C, or getting stuck in traffic.

If you drive out 25 miles, you might think you will be fine with the 25 miles back. But maybe you get a call, and would like to make a side trip. Mmmm, another 10 miles out and back? Getting iffy, what if traffic is bad, etc.

Recently, my daughter drove back from college, and she had a problem with her car that Sunday as she was ready to head back - I just let her borrow mine, and got hers fixed that week. If I drove an EV, I could not have done that, it wouldn't get her 1/3rd of the way there.

Sure, those are rare occurrences, but after I put that much money into a car, I want to be able to use when I want to use it, not when it fits a 76 mile range limit that could be a lot less, and I like to plan for the worst case. Not very flexible.

-ERD50
+1. In the future, if I am in the market for one, I will consider a hybrid first.

But then, some of the new conventional cars have such good gas mileage that I wonder how much savings is realized after considering the higher cost of the hybrid.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 08:08 PM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakers View Post
Last week we (mostly DW) picked up a new 2012 Ford Focus Electric car. We have had a ball with it, put several hundred miles on it now and no issues so far. We are using 110 power but may add a 240 charging station if it becomes compelling. We are having our elecrtic service upgraded from 100 to 200 amps soon so this might be the opportunity.
Now if Nords drops by and installs some solar panels we will have everything covered.
I've been wondering if the manufacturers would make a DC charge controller for higher charging efficiency.

But five 300-watt panels with microinverters could feed right through a 240v breaker into the Focus' receptacle without having to go through any of the house wiring. 1.5KW might be enough power, but it's easy to add more if you need it.

We've been considering a Mitsubishi or a Volt, but I'll have to keep an eye out for a Focus. I didn't know they had an EV model, and I don't know if it's available here yet.
__________________
*

Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."

I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:04 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 14,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound

+1. In the future, if I am in the market for one, I will consider a hybrid first.

But then, some of the new conventional cars have such good gas mileage that I wonder how much savings is realized after considering the higher cost of the hybrid.
I looked at smaller puddle jumpers, and yes, many get 30-40+ MPG on the highway, but only in the 20s in town. My Prius gets 50+ in town, where I drive most of the time, and on the highway. Cost around $25k, so more expensive than other sub compacts.

Definitely a gas miser compared to my V8 pickup!
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:18 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
OK. $25K is not bad at all, and about what I am willing to spend.

Make it a flat-towable car so I can hook it up behind my motorhome then it's a deal.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 07:39 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,202
We have two conventional hybrids now, but we would like to think there's an electric car in our future if we ever feel we've settled down. I suspect we'd have one gas, and one electric (for local travel only) - electric only does not make sense to me, obviously you can't take a long trip in a practical sense.

Trouble is, the $ savings (electric vs gasoline) may never be better than they are now. The generous tax subsidies will eventually go away. And ironically, if one day almost everyone has full electric cars and there are internal combustion engine cars become scarce, gas may actually get (a lot) cheaper and electricity (a lot) more expensive (both due to supply & demand). It will be interesting to see how this plays out...
__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 50% equity funds / 45% bonds / 5% cash
Target WR: Approx 1.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 07:47 AM   #10
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
Something I am going to consider in our next car is the electric. I'm not familiar with the Ford Focus and I'm wondering if it is anything like the Chevy Volt where you have a standby system (small gasoline engine) to get you further than the published mileage on battery power alone. I don't thnk I would like anything that has a definite mileage limit based on the charge alone. Does the Ford Focus have a system similar to the Volt?
While I like the concepts behind the Volt the price will have to come way down before we'd actually buy one. We also have strong reservations about an electric-only with it's limited range.

To my knowledge the Focus does not have an alternative power source.
__________________
When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 08:20 AM   #11
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
OK. $25K is not bad at all, and about what I am willing to spend.

Make it a flat-towable car so I can hook it up behind my motorhome then it's a deal.
That was always my issue with them. The pay back time for the higher upfront cost out weighed the gas savings cost. But that seems to be changing now.

Here's a couple of links for comparisions. The hyundai sonata hybrid looks to be very competitive.

Gas Saver Hybrids, Diesels vs. Standard Cars | Which Are Most Affordable? - Consumer Reports

Is Going Green Worth It? Hybrids vs. Conventional Models | U.S. News Best Cars
rbmrtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 08:25 AM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,328
Having owned my Escape hybrid for nearly 6 years, my perspective has gone from "Gee Whiz" to "Cross your fingers". Fortunately the hybrid part of it has performed well (had some minor chassis issues), but in the back of my mind I know that if it has a serious technical issue, my only recourse if to go to the dealer (if I can find one with a competent hybrid tech) and pay dearly.

Prius owners are in a little better position as they have strength in numbers, but imagine driving your Volt, long out of warranty, into America's heartland and having a major failure. The corner garage isn't going to diagnose the computer operated controls and even when they find that burned out module, who is going to stock it and how much is it going to cost? (Escape hybrid owners were shocked to find out the unique brake module lists for $4500)

It is one thing to buy a leading edge smartphone knowing it will be obsolete in a few years, but I expect a car to be a 10 or more year investment. The Gee Whiz lasts about a year and the Cross your fingers part starts the day the warranty expires.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 08:47 AM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
I looked at smaller puddle jumpers, and yes, many get 30-40+ MPG on the highway, but only in the 20s in town. My Prius gets 50+ in town, where I drive most of the time,
Hybrids have most of their advantage in stop-and-go traffic. Out on the open road they lose a lot of their MPG advantage. For example, my ordinary car gets 36 mpg on the open road. The Hybrid gets 38. In town, my ordinary car gets about 24 while the hybrid gets over 40!
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy

The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 08:50 AM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,171
100% electric cards have a huge cost advantage today because they don't pay the gas taxes used to maintain the roads. As they become more common those of us who drive mainly gasoline powered vehicles are going to object to subsidizing electric car owner's use of the road system. I expect some type of road use fee will be added to the yearly license fees paid by electric car owners.
__________________
Comparison is the thief of joy

The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:32 AM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 3,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
OK. $25K is not bad at all, and about what I am willing to spend.

Make it a flat-towable car so I can hook it up behind my motorhome then it's a deal.
Can't tow it on the ground, needs to be flat bedded.
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:33 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 3,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
Something I am going to consider in our next car is the electric. I'm not familiar with the Ford Focus and I'm wondering if it is anything like the Chevy Volt where you have a standby system (small gasoline engine) to get you further than the published mileage on battery power alone. I don't thnk I would like anything that has a definite mileage limit based on the charge alone. Does the Ford Focus have a system similar to the Volt?
Pure electric, like the Leaf and a few others. That is its virtue and its limitation. Only good as a city car or (for us) a second car.
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:46 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
Talk about an electric vehicle for running errands, I remember reading about retirement communities where people use a golf cart to get around. That sounded relaxing to me, until I realized that I would be surrounded by geezers. Like myself!

Anyway, I currently have 3 cars, the oldest one has 160K miles on the odometer, and the newest one has 30K. As little as we drive them now, it will be a while before we are in the market for a new vehicle. Perhaps by that time, these EVs or hybrids will be old-hat technology and reliability and repair issues will not be a problem anymore. My friend said his sister bought one of these green vehicles, and had to face expensive repairs after just 5 or 6 years. That would make me mad.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)

"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Our Gas Pump
Old 11-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 3,340
Our Gas Pump

DW pumping up the Focus
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FFEpic.jpg (38.6 KB, 21 views)
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:29 PM   #19
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
Cost around $25k, so more expensive than other sub compacts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound View Post
OK. $25K is not bad at all, and about what I am willing to spend.
Make it a flat-towable car so I can hook it up behind my motorhome then it's a deal.
You can get a real bargain out of used Priuses, 3-5 years old. But they should be towed on a flatbed, or at the very least with the front wheels up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
100% electric cards have a huge cost advantage today because they don't pay the gas taxes used to maintain the roads. As they become more common those of us who drive mainly gasoline powered vehicles are going to object to subsidizing electric car owner's use of the road system.
Maybe those fees should be paid by the vehicles that cause the most damage: by weight.
__________________
*

Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."

I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:32 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.