Electric Car Considerations

[Texas Proud]

Ok... saw this and thought of this thread....

Looks like the best time is to wait one more year and buy....


https://www.yahoo.com/autos/used-evs...255982617.html


Model Est. Retail Value 7/2015 Est. Retail Value 7/2016 Forecasted Loss of Value Annual Depreciation 2013 Nissan LEAF SL $14,900 $7,650 $7,250 48.70% 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV $7,950 $4,400 $3,550 44.70% 2013 Tesla Model S Performance $74,000 $52,600 $21,400 28.90% 2013 Chevy Volt $18,600 $14,800 $3,800 20.40%

[Koolau]

Kind of frightening - unless you want to buy a used one now. Of course, all it would take would be for the mid-east to blow up/new oil shock. Then those electric vehicles would suddenly have luster again. I guess we will see. It would seem that going all electric will be delayed yet a few more years. I still love the technology, but could not see investing at this time -probably not even used. YMMV

[Chuckanut]

It's also a good time to buy a hybrid. "Everybody knows" that gasoline is going back down to $2 a gallon.

[swakyaby]

I really like driving an all-electric car. It's smooth, quiet, and accelerates without hesitation. Admittedly, it's not all about what costs less, it's rather the simplicity of owning and operating the car. There is no engine to maintain (no fan belts or timing belts to change, no smog certificates to obtain, no oil changes, no fuel filters). And no more gas station stops. I plug in at home in the evening and have a "full" tank in the morning. As for the 8 year battery warranty, it doesn't necessarily mean you need to replace the battery at that time; it just no longer has a warranty.

I do think it would be worth waiting to see what the 200 mile Chevy Bolt, or 200 mile Tesla Model 3, or the upcoming extended range Nissan Leaf are like, as long as your current car is running ok. All the above 3 sound very intriguing.

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swakyaby I really like driving an all-electric car. It's smooth, quiet, and accelerates without hesitation. Admittedly, it's not all about what costs less, it's rather the simplicity of owning and operating the car. There is no engine to maintain (no fan belts or timing belts to change, no smog certificates to obtain, no oil changes, no fuel filters). And no more gas station stops. I plug in at home in the evening and have a "full" tank in the morning. As for the 8 year battery warranty, it doesn't necessarily mean you need to replace the battery at that time; it just no longer has a warranty. I do think it would be worth waiting to see what the 200 mile Chevy Bolt, or 200 mile Tesla Model 3, or the upcoming extended range Nissan Leaf are like, as long as your current car is running ok. All the above 3 sound very intriguing.

But depreciation is a real thing... Say you bought a Leaf today at $14K.... and it was worth $7K next year.... and then you totaled your car.... insurance will only pay your $7K less deductible... that is a real loss in the pocketbook...

If they are going to drop in value quickly, then that is another reason not to buy one.... even if the advantages your state are real to everybody...

[swakyaby]

If you're replacing a new car after 1 year, that's a loss whether it's a combustion engine or an all-electric car. My DH totalled his $32K new Isuzu after only 7 months. He received only $22K from the insurance. If you're concerned about resale value after 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, perhaps leasing is a better option for any car.

But purchasing the Nissan Leaf is relatively inexpensive, especially after the federal tax credit, and sometimes a state rebate too.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swakyaby If you're replacing a new car after 1 year, that's a loss whether it's a combustion engine or an all-electric car. My DH totalled his $32K new Isuzu after only 7 months. He received only $22K from the insurance. If you're concerned about resale value after 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, perhaps leasing is a better option for any car. ...

But getting it totaled isn't a planned event (at least I hope not!). I bought a new car that I likely would have kept for 10+ years, but it got totaled at one year.

Now, if I bought a Leaf, and it was totaled after one year and I got a low $ figure, theoretically I could go buy a one year old Leaf for that same money.

The big risk is, what if I determined that I didn't like the Leaf, the range for an EV was a problem for me, and then it gets totaled? Or maybe I got a new job with a longer commute and need to sell and buy a non-EV? Big loss.

Quote:

But purchasing the Nissan Leaf is relatively inexpensive, especially after the federal tax credit, and sometimes a state rebate too.

No, not inexpensive. It just means you got someone else to pay the expense (my usual anti-subsidy rant).

-ERD50

[swakyaby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 The big risk is, what if I determined that I didn't like the Leaf, the range for an EV was a problem for me, and then it gets totaled? -ERD50

I wouldn't buy a new car I haven't well-researched and test-driven and talked to other owners. And it sounds like the OP has done all of that. I do think that the range in this case might be cutting it a little close. If it's not his only household vehicle, however, it just might fit in well with the overall plan.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud If they are going to drop in value quickly, then that is another reason not to buy one....

Or, it's a good reason to buy a used one--rather than a new one, and, if the depreciation is severe enough, it might even make the used EV a more logical purchase than an IC car.

But, before buying I should ask/ research why the badly depreciated EV car isn't loved by the market as a whole, but is worthy of my consideration. Either I'm smarter than the group, my factors of consideration are very different from the general populace, or there's some factor that is distorting the market price (e.g. subsidies for new EVs that drive down the desirability/price of used EVs).

A previous thread on the resale value of EVs, etc. They don't seem to hold their value well, which can be bad (seller) or good (buyer)

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem Or, it's a good reason to buy a used one--rather than a new one, and, if the depreciation is severe enough, it might even make the used EV a more logical purchase than an IC car. But, before buying I should ask/ research why the badly depreciated EV car isn't loved by the market as a whole, but is worthy of my consideration. Either I'm smarter than the group, my factors of consideration are very different from the general populace, or there's some factor that is distorting the market price (e.g. subsidies for new EVs that drive down the desirability/price of used EVs).

Did you read the article I linked?

It is suggesting that the Leaf will depreciate almost 50% over the next year.... and that is a USED Leaf (just looked, 2013)...

So yes, it might be a good think to look at buying in a year after the 50% drop.... but if batteries only last 7 years or so, you have 'used up' a good percent of their use.... and your range has dropped significantly.....

Now for me, I really could use a short range car for the family that would be used to get kids to school, go to the grocery store, visit close relatives etc, etc.... however, I still think a Hybrid is a better option (or an extended range electric)...

[NW-Bound]

I would not mind a used vehicle that depreciates badly. I thought the motorhome I bought was a good deal.

What I worry about the Leaf or any other EV is that the depreciation may be because of something I do not know about, particularly the aging of the battery and the shortening of the car range. As I drive little in retirement, I would need to consider the battery replacement cost, unless someone offers a 15-year or 100K miles warranty expiration, whichever comes first.

[HFWR]

I've heard, though not researched, that the Leaf (Leaves?) is usually leased, and are relatively inexpensive to purchase after the lease term.

Your miles per kW may vary...

[explanade]

All cars depreciate, as soon as you drive it off the dealers lot.

Speaking of which, I watched a House Hunters the other day where a family was shopping for a $3 million home in Pacific Palisades.

One of the requirements was space for his exotic sports cars. The one they showed was some Porsche. The house they selected only had a 3 car garage so he had to put 6 others in storage somewhere. He had the driveway re-graded because it wasn't level and was going to scrape the bottom of his cars.

What did he do for a living?

He was a financial advisor.

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Proud Did you read the article I linked? It is suggesting that the Leaf will depreciate almost 50% over the next year.... and that is a USED Leaf (just looked, 2013)... So yes, it might be a good think to look at buying in a year after the 50% drop.... but if batteries only last 7 years or so, you have 'used up' a good percent of their use.... and your range has dropped significantly.....

I said "used might be a good buy"--you just have to wait until it's "used enough." Maybe that will be next year.

I think one of these cars might be a lot of fun to experiment with. If a used Leaf gets down to $3K and has a battery still good for a 50 mile range, that might be a car I could take a chance on, just for scooting around town for a few years, powering the fridge and room AC for a few days during power outages, etc.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by explanade All cars depreciate, as soon as you drive it off the dealers lot. ...

Yes, now what is your point?

Are you saying we can ignore how much they depreciate, just because they all depreciate? That doesn't strike me as sound financial reasoning. Consider all the parallels to that.

Or do we ignore the depreciation only on cars that are the 'dahlings' of the 'greenies'?


-ERD50

[Texas Proud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem I said "used might be a good buy"--you just have to wait until it's "used enough." Maybe that will be next year. I think one of these cars might be a lot of fun to experiment with. If a used Leaf gets down to $3K and has a battery still good for a 50 mile range, that might be a car I could take a chance on, just for scooting around town for a few years, powering the fridge and room AC for a few days during power outages, etc.

I agree.... if I could get a Leaf in two years at 3K, it might be worth it to have for 3 to 5 years to putter around here...

But, how much does the charging station cost? And can you charge outside since my boat takes up the garage....

[NW-Bound]

You can plug the Leaf or the Tesla into a normal 110V outlet, via an extension cord if you need, but it's slow. Each hour of charging gets you perhaps 3 or 4 miles of driving.

Or you can plug it into a 220V-30A outlet, using beefier cables like what's on RVs, and get perhaps 20-30 miles of driving per hour of charging time.

I believe the optional beefy charging stations are for faster charging times, as these cars all come with built-in chargers.

[Ready]

A friend of mine has been driving a Volt for a few years, and has been very happy with it. I've been tempted to buy one so that I can drive in the carpool lanes in CA, but haven't found it compelling enough to go to the expense and hassle of selling my car and buying a new Volt. Yesterday we made plans for lunch and he drove to my house to pick me up. Except instead of showing up in his Volt, he showed up in a brand new Tesla Model S 85D.

I had no idea he was even looking for one, so I was quite surprised. He insisted I drive it to the restaurant. I really didn't want to, as the last thing I want to do is drive someones brand new $90K car and get into an accident. But since he insisted, I obliged.

OMG!

I was totally blown away. Not only was the performance absolutely insane, but the technology in this car is beyond anything I could have imagined. He kept showing me so many different tech features that my mind is a blur trying to remember which ones I was most impressed with. I had no idea the Tesla was so advanced and integrated with the internet, your smart phone, your schedule...And it comes pretty darn close to driving all by itself. And as for speed, the only thing I can compare it to is the feeling I get when I go to Disneyland and ride the California Screaming roller coaster when the ride begins and blasts off at full speed.

I had no interest in even considering a Tesla prior to yesterday. Now, I can't imagine ever wanting to replace my current vehicle with anything but a Tesla. I won't be rushing out to buy it any time soon, as there is nothing wrong with my car. But I seriously lost interest in every other vehicle out there after spending 20 minutes with this thing.

I know a $75-$100K+ car is not for everyone, but for people who love high tech, this car is absolutely mind boggling. And if you gave me a Mercedes S-Class or BMW 7 series, I could seriously care less. I've never been impressed with those cars. But the Tesla is a force to be reckoned with. I can only hope the mid priced model retains most of the excitement of this one when it comes out in a few years.

[swakyaby]

Ready, you've pretty much summed it up. Often, the experience of electric car technology (and its simplicity) goes beyond dollars and cents. It's an eye-opening experience.

[clifp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready A friend of mine has been driving a Volt for a few years, and has been very happy with it. I've been tempted to buy one so that I can drive in the carpool lanes in CA, but haven't found it compelling enough to go to the expense and hassle of selling my car and buying a new Volt. Yesterday we made plans for lunch and he drove to my house to pick me up. Except instead of showing up in his Volt, he showed up in a brand new Tesla Model S 85D. I had no idea he was even looking for one, so I was quite surprised. He insisted I drive it to the restaurant. I really didn't want to, as the last thing I want to do is drive someones brand new $90K car and get into an accident. But since he insisted, I obliged. OMG! [typical initial reaction to Tesla deleted.] I was totally blown away. Not only was the performance absolutely insane, . I can only hope the mid priced model retains most of the excitement of this one when it comes out in a few years.

Ready, just think of your friend as your friendly neighborhood drug pusher giving you some free drugs to get you hooked.

Oh and you missed the best part of the car. It's get better over time. I've lost track of the number of new features have been added to my "cheapest Tesla ever built" in the last two years.

The acceleration never gets old. Although my 0-60 in 5 seconds is no where near as much fun as the 0-60 in 3.0 seconds in a D Model, and Tesla just introduced a even faster D model with 0-60 in 2.7 second Ludicrous acceleration mode.-

Still I'd suggest holding off for the Gen 3 car, and the best way to do that is to not every get into another Tesla S.