Energy Efficiency Progress Report

[Shawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan 50F at night. ... All I have to worry about is the cat.

I haven't turned on the heat for the last few years. I don't think its ever dropped below 45, although it's often in the 48 degree range when I get up in the morning. It can warm up to 55 to 60 in the daytime. It's cold when I get into bed, although it warms up after a few minutes. I feel warm and snug. I have no problem sleeping.

My cat, a former feral, is getting older and likes to stay inside more. She has her own electric blanket and I've been turning on a space heater for her in the corner of the bedroom. Baby gets what baby wants.

[Khan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn I haven't turned on the heat for the last few years. I don't think its ever dropped below 45, although it's often in the 48 degree range when I get up in the morning. It can warm up to 55 to 60 in the daytime. It's cold when I get into bed, although it warms up after a few minutes. I feel warm and snug. I have no problem sleeping. My cat, a former feral, is getting older and likes to stay inside more. She has her own electric blanket and I've been turning on a space heater for her in the corner of the bedroom. Baby gets what baby wants.

The thermostat is at 50F and is downstairs; in the morning the bedroom (upstairs) is about 40F. Cat is a double coat long hair, and there are several cat beds (non heated) around the house .

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan The thermostat is at 50F and is downstairs; in the morning the bedroom (upstairs) is about 40F.

My! And I remember that your heating was $2K in 2007. I will keep this in mind comes this 2009 summer. I will set the AC thermostat down another deg or two, and stop complaining and feeling bad about my electric bill, which is less than the total of your electric+gas bill.

Wouldn't a little space heater for the bedroom be more effective, in conjunction with lowering the downstairs thermostat?

[Khan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound My! And I remember that your heating was $2K in 2007. I will keep this in mind comes this 2009 summer. I will set the AC thermostat down another deg or two, and stop complaining and feeling bad about my electric bill, which is less than the total of your electric+gas bill. Wouldn't a little space heater for the bedroom be more effective, in conjunction with lowering the downstairs thermostat?

I don't find it uncomfortable. Do have a space heater for the bathroom (also upstairs); and a space heater for the computer corner (just for the morning while house is warming up).

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan The thermostat is at 50F and is downstairs; in the morning the bedroom (upstairs) is about 40F. ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound My! And I remember that your heating was $2K in 2007.

Wait a minute. :confused:

$2,000 heating bill in Ohio (similar climate to Northern IL right?) with the thermostat set to 50? IIRC, you've got a smallish house Kahn. A quick search and I see you are on a natural gas furnace. Is that right?

I've got a largish house, not all that well insulated or anything, and a $250 bill for a month is on the high side. Thermo set to 58-60 at night, usually 62-64 during the day, maybe 66-68 in the evening. Gas stove and (very old) gas water heater also. My 2007 bills (made me look) were $1090 for Sept through May. Furnace is 16 YO, moderately high eff, but nothing fancy (has a draft inducer fan, old standing pilot, and a standard chimney -though they put in a liner to reduce the size when they installed it).

If $2000 is correct, something just does not seem right. And, 40F upstairs with 50F downstairs? Heat rises. Is this a sign that your insulation upstairs is very poor? We get a very small delta between up and down.

-ERD50

[Khan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Wait a minute. :confused: $2,000 heating bill in Ohio (similar climate to Northern IL right?) with the thermostat set to 50? IIRC, you've got a smallish house Kahn. A quick search and I see you are on a natural gas furnace. Is that right? I've got a largish house, not all that well insulated or anything, and a $250 bill for a month is on the high side. Thermo set to 58-60 at night, usually 62-64 during the day, maybe 66-68 in the evening. Gas stove and (very old) gas water heater also. My 2007 bills (made me look) were $1090 for Sept through May. Furnace is 16 YO, moderately high eff, but nothing fancy (has a draft inducer fan, old standing pilot, and a standard chimney -though they put in a liner to reduce the size when they installed it).

$2000 was gas bill for year 2007 (boiler, water heater, cooking).

$1556 for year 2008.

Quote:

If $2000 is correct, something just does not seem right. And, 40F upstairs with 50F downstairs? Heat rises. Is this a sign that your insulation upstairs is very poor? We get a very small delta between up and down. -ERD50

Gas fired hot water: some radiators, some baseboard. Radiators upstairs mostly turned off (except for bathroom).

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan $1556 for year 2008. Gas fired hot water: some radiators, some baseboard. Radiators upstairs mostly turned off (except for bathroom).

I'm near Dayton, too. Our house is approx 1800 SF, we keep the thermostat at 70 deg F in the day and 65 at night, and our gas bill is $1200/year (for home heat, hot water, cooking). Our house was built in 1959, has no insulaton in the basement (that's a coming project), fair insulation in the walls (probably R-6), and good insulation in the attic. The windows are new and good. The furnace (self-installed) is 90% efficiency.

It does sound like you are paying a lot. Are there any cheap/easy fixes you could make?

ERD50 wrote:

Quote:

$2,000 heating bill in Ohio (similar climate to Northern IL right?) with the thermostat set to 50? IIRC, you've got a smallish house Kahn. A quick search and I see you are on a natural gas furnace. Is that right?

Actually, it's balmy here compared to northern IL:
Chicago: 6493 Heating Degree Days (65 deg F base)
Dayton: 5678 HDD(65)

[Khan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem I'm near Dayton, too. Our house is approx 1800 SF, we keep the thermostat at 70 deg F in the day and 65 at night, and our gas bill is $1200/year (for home heat, hot water, cooking). Our house was built in 1959, has no insulaton in the basement (that's a coming project), fair insulation in the walls (probably R-6), and good insulation in the attic. The windows are new and good. The furnace (self-installed) is 90% efficiency.

Pretty good insulation, newer windows (15 years); furnace is 29 years old (with pilot light) 30 gallon water heater 15 years (with pilot light)

Quote:

It does sound like you are paying a lot. Are there any cheap/easy fixes you could make?

After the cat dies, I'm moving to a one bedroom apartment. Would he be nervous if he knew that?

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan ... furnace is 29 years old...

I think I see a big savings opportunity...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan After the cat dies, I'm moving to a one bedroom apartment.

How old is the cat?

[Khan]

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Originally Posted by REWahoo I think I see a big savings opportunity...

I'm in a position where I don't want to invest much into a decaying house.

Quote:

How old is the cat?

About 11. He showed up out of the woods at about 1 year old.

[samclem]

Quote:

After the cat dies, I'm moving to a one bedroom apartment. Would he be nervous if he knew that?

I know the squirrels will be happy when he's gone, but I'll bet they'll miss you.

It still seems strange that your gas costs are that high given your home size and thermostat settings, even with an inefficient furnace/boiler.

[FinanceDude]

I just got my furnace and AC done last month. Got the latest energy bill, gas bill is down 25%, just like they said it would do. Plus, I got $300 in rebates.....

When I had my siding redone last year, the guy agreed to put 1 inch foam board over the whole house, even the garage, it seems to help......

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan Pretty good insulation, newer windows (15 years); furnace is 29 years old (with pilot light) 30 gallon water heater 15 years (with pilot light)

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem It still seems strange that your gas costs are that high given your home size and thermostat settings, even with an inefficient furnace/boiler.

Yes, esp with the degree-day differences we have here (and I'm far enough out of Chicago that the lows are a bit lower). The months I didn't count as "heating season" would only add ~ $200 to my bill, still far below $2,000.

Even if Kahn's furnace was running at half the efficiency of mine (45% seems awful low) , that would account for the bill being less than double (still have gas stove and water - and my WH is on year 26!). But that would still put it in the range of people with larger houses keeping the thermo way higher.

Something is wrong, I think. Furnace just not working right (should be some symptoms), air blockage in the ducts, a loose duct just blowing hot air into an unheated space.... something. It may not be an expensive fix, may be something simple.

-ERD50

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Something is wrong, I think. Furnace just not working right (should be some symptoms), air blockage in the ducts, a loose duct just blowing hot air into an unheated space.... something. It may not be an expensive fix, may be something simple. -ERD50

She's got gas-fired hot water with radiators and some baseboard heaters, so it's not a loose duct. I don't think the loss is in the distribution system. I'm also surprised about the cooler top floor than the lower floor, as these hot water systems tend to have more temp stratification in the house than you'd typically see with forced air. We once lived in a three story house heated by radiators, and it was often 15 deg warmer on the third floor compared to the first floor.

I suspect either something is wasteful/malfunctioning in the boiler, the distribution pump, or there's a lot of air leaking out of the house envelope upstairs. It might be low R in a ceiling, but you'd almost need mass air movement to explain the gas use if the boiler and pump are working okay.

[NW-Bound]

Heh Heh Heh

Why is it not surprising to me that all the usual male suspects show up at a thread where some mechanical thing is not working quite right?

Heh Heh Heh

[samclem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Heh Heh Heh Why is it not surprising to me that all the usual male suspects show up at a thread where something is not working quite right? Heh Heh Heh

This would be a lot more satisfying if we could whack something with a wrench or swear at it in person!

[Khan]

2006-CCF natural gas-607

2007-CCF natural gas-798

2008-CCF natural gas-795