Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Epstein Donations
Old 09-10-2019, 09:50 AM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rianne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Champaign
Posts: 4,689
Epstein Donations

Jeff Epstein donated to Harvard, MIT and other institutions. The money itself is not tainted, it is going to good use (unless the money was used for illicit purposes). DH disagrees and calls it dirty money. I beg to differ.

DH claims Al Capone gave to many charities, poor people etc. and said that was blood money. Money is money. So what, if it comes from a tainted sources. Does the government turn away laundered money coming from illegal sources? The illegal sources turn it into legitimate money and use it, pay taxes on it. Where is it supposed to go?
I do believe Epstein's estate should go to the abused victims and anyone harmed from his disgusting lifestyle. Those victims will not turn away his money because it's dirty.
I may be ignorant on my take on this. Where does "dirty money" go? Somebody pockets it.
__________________
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

Ralph Waldo Emerson
Rianne is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-10-2019, 09:54 AM   #2
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
There's a reason why they call it money "laundering", so people (and the authorities) no longer know the money was "dirty".

Some people have a stronger sense of guilt by association than others.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 09:56 AM   #3
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,773
I don't think Harvard and MIT will be in too much financial trouble if they return the donations to the estate.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 09:58 AM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 7,677
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Why would he think Epstein's money is dirty? It did not come from illicit activities. It is not like Madoff's money that was definitely illicit.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:00 AM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RunningBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
There's a reason why they call it money "laundering", so people (and the authorities) no longer know the money was "dirty".

Some people have a stronger sense of guilt by association than others.
Giving away money isn't laundering.
RunningBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:05 AM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningBum View Post
Giving away money isn't laundering.
I'll take "missing the point" for $400, Alex.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:09 AM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,952
You know who gave money that dwarfs all the people listed about?

The Sackler pharmacy family. Here's a question? they will get the living crap sued out of them as it should be. The intuitions who took the money pretty much looked the other way. Should those intuitions be forced by the courts to return the money to the pile to settle the lawsuits against them. Claw back it happened to some people who "invested" with Madoff...
ivinsfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:12 AM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
The Sackler pharmacy family. Here's a question? they will get the living crap sued out of them as it should be. The intuitions who took the money pretty much looked the other way. Should those intuitions be forced by the courts to return the money to the pile to settle the lawsuits against them. Claw back it happened to some people who "invested" with Madoff...
I think there's a moral (and possibly legal) difference between not knowing money was "tainted" and knowingly accepting it while choosing to look the other way -- or even having reasonable suspicions about it.

And if someone with all the tainted money had reason to believe they'd lose much or all of it if they were caught, there's the potential for "fraudulent conveyance" when they dole it out to others. In this case, one could *ostensibly* argue that this money should go to the victims.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:15 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 7,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rianne View Post
Jeff Epstein donated to Harvard, MIT and other institutions. The money itself is not tainted, it is going to good use (unless the money was used for illicit purposes). DH disagrees and calls it dirty money. I beg to differ.

DH claims Al Capone gave to many charities, poor people etc. and said that was blood money. Money is money. So what, if it comes from a tainted sources. Does the government turn away laundered money coming from illegal sources? The illegal sources turn it into legitimate money and use it, pay taxes on it. Where is it supposed to go?
I do believe Epstein's estate should go to the abused victims and anyone harmed from his disgusting lifestyle. Those victims will not turn away his money because it's dirty.
I may be ignorant on my take on this. Where does "dirty money" go? Somebody pockets it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcowan View Post
Why would he think Epstein's money is dirty? It did not come from illicit activities. It is not like Madoff's money that was definitely illicit.
The source of Epstein's funds appears to be mysterious.
Montecfo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:15 AM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RunningBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I'll take "missing the point" for $400, Alex.
Nah, you gotta go with the Holzhauer strategy. "Pointless comments" for $2000.
RunningBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:21 AM   #11
Moderator
Aerides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,879
The problem with the MIT situation is far more complex. This wasn't really money laundering:

The university had him on a "no thanks" donor list
The lab took his money anyway, hiding it as anonymous
The lab invited him to meet with lab faculty and to provide INPUT on projects
The lab was clearly intentionally covering up the donations

Now this is all coming to light, MIT's president has pledged to donate all the funds to victim support charities.
Aerides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:37 AM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerides View Post
The problem with the MIT situation is far more complex. This wasn't really money laundering.
OK, perhaps I was too subtle. I didn't mean to claim this was 'money laundering' in the legal context. My point was just that some people want to make "dirty money" feel cleaner, and may feel that giving to charity does that, at least in their own mind. And simply food for thought -- what makes "dirty money" clean again, not just in the eyes of the authorities but morally?

If you didn't know money was tainted and you spent it, so be it. If you know it was tainted and spent it anyway, shame on you. If you find out later it was tainted and you still have it, giving it to the victims (IMO) "cleans" it.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:39 AM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I think there's a moral (and possibly legal) difference between not knowing money was "tainted" and knowingly accepting it while choosing to look the other way -- or even having reasonable suspicions about it.

And if someone with all the tainted money had reason to believe they'd lose much or all of it if they were caught, there's the potential for "fraudulent conveyance" when they dole it out to others. In this case, one could *ostensibly* argue that this money should go to the victims.
How about if they donated it to massage their public images and act like pillars of the communities? I'm thinking some lawyer somewhere is going after some of these places.
ivinsfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:42 AM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivinsfan View Post
How about if they donated it to massage their public images and act like pillars of the communities? I'm thinking some lawyer somewhere is going after some of these places.
Perhaps. I don't know if there was any faith-based motives behind giving like this, but if someone did this to demonstrate they were a "good Christian" I'd go Matthew 6 all over them (where Jesus basically says "don't practice faith in public with the motive of being seen").
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:45 AM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Perhaps. I don't know if there was any faith-based motives behind giving like this, but if someone did this to demonstrate they were a "good Christian" I'd go Matthew 6 all over them (where Jesus basically says "don't practice faith in public with the motive of being seen").
I believe the faith was, I'm a drug pusher but I don't want anyone to know that... Or judge me by my checkbook, not what I actually do.
ivinsfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 10:56 AM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 661
The better question is...how did epstein become so rich? Not even his lawyers can figure it out. You cant find a single article that breaks down how he came to a massive net worth. I also like the fact that someone gifted him a $77 million house in Manhattan. That was sure nice of them. And a certain former person only flew with him 26 times over the years.

And before someone says to "put on your tin foil hat on," just remember...all the cameras in the prison he was in magically captured no footage of anyone coming/going from the facility. But, he hung himself, case closed. lol
ponyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 11:03 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 17,010
I was hoping the IRS would decide my money was dirty and refuse to accept it.
__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 11:21 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post
The better question is...how did epstein become so rich?
We may never know the full extent of how he came to be so wealthy as it seems as though much was 'shady'.

Here's an article with a few details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cce_story.html Politics

omni
omni550 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 11:28 AM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
ivinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by omni550 View Post
We may never know the full extent of how he came to be so wealthy as it seems as though much was 'shady'.

Here's an article with a few details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cce_story.html Politics

omni
Pimpin ain't easy...
ivinsfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2019, 02:29 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
easysurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by omni550 View Post
We may never know the full extent of how he came to be so wealthy as it seems as though much was 'shady'.

Here's an article with a few details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cce_story.html Politics

omni
The conspiracist me says we may never know the full extent of how he died.

Circumstances are too convenient for him go so suddenly just as there is so much to uncover.
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
easysurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tax filing: donations? brewer12345 FIRE and Money 2 01-05-2008 02:40 PM
non-cash charitable donations Martha FIRE and Money 7 06-19-2007 08:37 AM
Charitable Donations ferco Other topics 23 02-13-2006 04:43 PM
Charitable donations pre- and post-FI/RE peteyperson Life after FIRE 83 09-29-2005 09:51 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.