Estate/Independent Admin Final Accounting Error

[chris2008]

As they say "No good deed remains unpunished...."

 

[travelover]

.............
Do you think I interpreted this correctly? I believe I did. I know, I REALLY wish I was an only child....

Life is too short to deal with this type of person. Turn the page and write them off as dead.

 

[Brat]

I have a sister like that, she has sent me the same type of communication. A while back I suggested we meet together with a family therapist. She refused. I wonder why

 

[Martha]

I'd consider bringing the letter to the lawyer and say that it looks like it is going to be tough to impossible to get this money back and because it was the lawyer's fault the lawyer must resolve this. Revising the final account doesn't get the money back. You want to be made whole, not fuss around with trying to collect this money from heirs who have already cashed their checks.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Thanks Martha, I can forward this email on to the attorney.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I feel so bad for you.

I hate problem party #2 just because of this little line in that missive: "With our moving, we are tapped out. I used it to pay bills etc. I don't have deep pockets like you do." First he/she uses up all your sympathy with that vitriol, and then throws out that line. So that should make it all your burden?

 

[Dimsumkid]

Bestwifeever,
Thanks, he doesn't bother to mention his wife has been working all this time, making over $100k easily for the past 15+ yrs, just that he doesn't want to "touch" her money. He mentioned in the past she had accumulated company stock worth 1/2 to 1 million about 10 years ago too. Combined income for both had to be $150k-200k+ for the last decade plus.

I never mentioned to him that I've only worked 2 months in last 3 years and my wife was laid off 1.5 yrs ago. I didn't want to throw it back at him for sympathy, knowing that all I've done so far was volunteering and didn't count in his view.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Just wanted to update this overpayment situation. Problem party #2 didn't bother contesting...just full of hot air I guess. The judge ruled in our favor to have the 2 parties repay the overpayment. I'm sure this is where it will get interesting, trying to get the 2 parties to repay the money.

 

[Brat]

I would tell the attorney that if they don't pay s/he will. It is up to the attorney to collect the $, gratis.

Did the attorney admit to the judge that s/he made an error?

 

[Dimsumkid]

I didn't go to court, just got the results. There was just an admission an accounting error was made, not specifically by the attorney

 

[pb4uski]

You will only get what you insist on. I would suggest that you insist on getting your admin fee and distribution since it was their mistake and that the law firm then collect from the others who were overpaid. If they can't get the money back, it is their problem (and loss). Given the fees that they have received and the mistakes that they have made, it isn't much to ask. Be assertive and make it clear that you insist that they take responsibility for thier errors.

 

[Martha]

You will only get what you insist on. I would suggest that you insist on getting your admin fee and distribution since it was their mistake and that the law firm then collect from the others who were overpaid. If they can't get the money back, it is their problem (and loss). Given the fees that they have received and the mistakes that they have made, it isn't much to ask. Be assertive and make it clear that you insist that they take responsibility for thier errors.

+1

 

[Dimsumkid]

I still owe roughly the same amount to this legal firm (from another case) as what is due from this estate. As long as the process keeps moving forward, they haven't asked me for payment, so I'm guessing they're not pressing for payment since there's still outstanding work to be done. I mentioned to the attorney about be made whole and collecting the money due, he only said he'd do his best to get it back. I will need to have a talk with the owner of the firm, my attorney is a sr. partner.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Just got another update, atty sent me an email that the county treasurer is requiring a W-9 to get the payback. So, there's definitely forward progress here. One down, one more to go. He's also recommending that a 2nd final accounting for the estate be sent to the IRS, stating no tax due...not sure why, I talked to an accountant last year, there was no tax due and was told I didn't need to file anything at all. I'm thinking the atty has one opinion, but it doesn't match what the accountant says.

Anyone see a need to file another tax form that's not required? I don't feel like spending .44 on a stamp! This estate has drained me enough.

 

[Achiever51]

I've been reading this entire thread with great interest as it reminds me of the terrible experience my DH has as a personal rep for a relative's estate several years ago. The relative died with a will that named distant relatives who hadn't been heard from in years along with others who had died. One relative contested the will, claiming that the deceased had "a full length sable coat worth more than $150,000" that she claimed my DH removed from the estate. (The coat in question was a pieced mink that was over 40 years old, in poor condition, and had been disposed of by the deceased years before she died.) Still, the allegation caused lots of problems for DH, as did another relative who tried to claim proceeds from an insurance policy.

Anyway, this mess continued for more than 5 years from the time the estate was opened...three years after DH resigned as executor...and by the time the estate was closed, after 82 court hearings!!, there were no assets left to distribute to any of the heirs. The entire small estate had been eaten up by attorney fees and administrative costs charged by the substitute executor appointed by the court.

As I am about to take my father's estate to probate, I pray I don't face the same problems.

 

[DeborahB]

Okay, it is DEFINITELY time for me to complete my living trust etc. This is ugly.

Dimsumkid - I would finish this incredible mess, and then find another attorney for the future. I wouldn't want to work with this firm.

The other thing is - and they apparently fail to realize this - in all areas, people tell all their friends about a firm/store/whatever that they had a problem with. They are much more likely to do that than to share the joy of working with someone good. So bad work ends up costing them future customers.

They should be GLAD to redo it for free, not bill you for their services since they made the accounting error, etc. Then they would get a lot of mention from you about what a decent firm they were etc etc... I don't think you are supposed to have to cross check the attorneys' calculations and have liability for it.

I'm not an attorney - this is simply based on my experiences - oh, and common sense...

Good luck with it - and change firms ASAP.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Archiever51,
I don't think I want to go another 1.5 yrs, it's too long already. My atty has been tired of this nonsense for the last 6 months too. Here's one thing you can do, let someone else be the independent administrator! That way you can sit back and accuse the person of abusing the estate. If you're still inclined to take on the job the only thing I can suggest is try to identify the problem heirs, then come prepared with a strong stomach and will. I was looking for was a little support and a "Thanks" for helping out...none of that ever came from 3 out of the 4 parties involved.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Okay, it is DEFINITELY time for me to complete my living trust etc. This is ugly.

Dimsumkid - I would finish this incredible mess, and then find another attorney for the future. I wouldn't want to work with this firm.

The other thing is - and they apparently fail to realize this - in all areas, people tell all their friends about a firm/store/whatever that they had a problem with. They are much more likely to do that than to share the joy of working with someone good. So bad work ends up costing them future customers.

They should be GLAD to redo it for free, not bill you for their services since they made the accounting error, etc. Then they would get a lot of mention from you about what a decent firm they were etc etc... I don't think you are supposed to have to cross check the attorneys' calculations and have liability for it.

I'm not an attorney - this is simply based on my experiences - oh, and common sense...

Good luck with it - and change firms ASAP.

The problem is I interviewed multiple firms and this one came off as the best to handle my case. Since I hadn't had much experience using attorney's, you end up not getting the person you interview...I discussed the case with the owner of the firm and another atty. What I wasn't told is if there's a court situation, they have completely different atty's that go to court, not the ones I talked to and made my decision to go with! This isn't a big firm about 6 attys, as they specialize in estates, trusts and guardianships. I think the owner has been very good at correcting problems, the atty I work with seems to have a nice personality in person, but on the phone/email, he seems to be very terse/almost mean. When I discovered the error, we got into an almost shouting match about whose fault it was. I didn't feel it right for me to pay $225/hr to get yelled at, especially since I didn't cause the error! Anyway, after discussing with the owner (I wasn't part of this conversation), they're correcting the problem and the attitude has changed back to a normal, non yelling status again...as if it never happened. Kind of feel like he's Dr. Jekyll/Mr Hyde...
After the 2nd party repays their portion, then all my work over 2 cases will be done with this firm, except my trust is with them too.

Can anyone tell me if you can transfer a trust to another atty? How hard is this to do and what how expensive will it be?

 

[haha]

Only thing I get of any of this is that if you are dealing with lunatics, expect crazy results.

Why not just steal 'em blind and dare them to prove it?

As the attorney dealing with my brother's estate said, there really are no estate police.

Ha

 

[ERD50]

How does one decline being an executor (if they were asked and agreed originally)?

This sounds like an area where a 'disinterested third party' is well worth the money.

-ERD50

 

[Westernskies]

Can anyone tell me if you can transfer a trust to another atty? How hard is this to do and what how expensive will it be?

Reading through this thread, it seems to me like you have issues of trustability in trusting your trust business to an untrustable trust attorney Trust me, find someone truly trustworthy to entrust your trusts to, not someone who can't be trusted.

All kidding aside, the attorney who miscalculated the amounts should step up and take care of the collections. 'Consulting with the owner" means he knows he screwed up and isn't...

Sorry to hear you have had such a hard time; being the executor of an estate is tough enough without your siblings sniping at you and your attorney dodging his mistakes.

I like Ha's approach to dealing with your siblings (they sound like real pieces of work)- screw 'em. I'd tell them "here is what you got, per the enclosed accounting. P*ss and moan all you want, but the estate is settled, and my role as executor is now complete."

Instruct your attorney that his billable hours on this case are over unless specifically authorized by you in writing. Otherwise your disgruntled siblings may try to call him to [-]whine[/-] chat about your "mishandling" of the estate at $225/hr, knowing the bill would go to you as executor. Let them pay their own attorneys if they want to stir things up, for the money you're talking about here they won't....

Good luck.
WS

 

[Dimsumkid]

Only thing I get of any of this is that if you are dealing with lunatics, expect crazy results.

Why not just steal 'em blind and dare them to prove it?

As the attorney dealing with my brother's estate said, there really are no estate police.

Ha

When you have siblings that are willing to contest, they're MUCH worse than any police. I've learned that from this experience for sure! Problem with this process, as the executor/admin, you're held to a higher standard, but the problem ones can do as they please.

 

[Dimsumkid]

How does one decline being an executor (if they were asked and agreed originally)?

This sounds like an area where a 'disinterested third party' is well worth the money.

-ERD50

I was told all you need to do is tell the judge you decline. Of course, you need to find a replacement (sucker) to step in for you.

 

[Dimsumkid]

Reading through this thread, it seems to me like you have issues of trustability in trusting your trust business to an untrustable trust attorney Trust me, find someone truly trustworthy to entrust your trusts to, not someone who can't be trusted.

All kidding aside, the attorney who miscalculated the amounts should step up and take care of the collections. 'Consulting with the owner" means he knows he screwed up and isn't...

Sorry to hear you have had such a hard time; being the executor of an estate is tough enough without your siblings sniping at you and your attorney dodging his mistakes.

I like Ha's approach to dealing with your siblings (they sound like real pieces of work)- screw 'em. I'd tell them "here is what you got, per the enclosed accounting. P*ss and moan all you want, but the estate is settled, and my role as executor is now complete."

Instruct your attorney that his billable hours on this case are over unless specifically authorized by you in writing. Otherwise your disgruntled siblings may try to call him to [-]whine[/-] chat about your "mishandling" of the estate at $225/hr, knowing the bill would go to you as executor. Let them pay their own attorneys if they want to stir things up, for the money you're talking about here they won't....

Good luck.
WS

I wish I could do what Ha stated, but the problem lies in that the 2 worst possible siblings were the only ones that got the overpayments. This is why we had to go back to court to get a judgement and start getting these overpayments back. You'd think these PITA's were spoiled kids, say 12 yrs old, no, they're both in their 50's. My job was supposed to be done with the final payout, but here I am 2 months later and time is still ticking away, 3.5 yrs later...

 

[Texas Proud]

I was told all you need to do is tell the judge you decline. Of course, you need to find a replacement (sucker) to step in for you.

No you do not... if you never took on the job it is (or should be) in the will... if not, then the judge will appoint someone...


Now, if you meant resign.... well then maybe this is true...