F-16 dogfight competition: AI vs human

[REWahoo]

In response to the "how do you pass the days" thread, here is an online event taking place next week that might be entertaining for some of you.

DARPA to pit human against AI fighter in AlphaDogfight trials

Quote:

The third and final competition in DARPA’s AlphaDogfight Trials will take place virtually on 18-20 August – participating teams and audience members will watch online as artificial intelligence (AI) algorithms control simulated F-16 fighters in aerial combat. Eight teams were selected last year to compete in the trials, which aim to demonstrate advanced AI algorithms capable of performing simulated within-visual-range air combat manoeuvring, colloquially known as a dogfight. The series of trials were designed to energise and expand a base of AI developers for DARPA’s Air Combat Evolution (ACE) program. ACE seeks to automate air-to-air combat and build human trust in AI as a step towards improved human-machine teaming. ... The final round of the AlphaDogfight will culminate in a matchup on 20 August between the top AI and an experienced Air Force fighter pilot flying a virtual reality F-16 simulator.

You need to register by the 17th to watch the contest: https://events.jhuapl.edu/ADT3AUGUST2020

More information on the contest: https://www.jhuapl.edu/PressRelease/...ls-third-event

[HawkeyeNFO]

Given the technology of today, F-16 pilots shouldn't expect to get into a dogfight.

[pb4uski]

Sort of reminds me of a book that I read, I'm guessing 20-30 years ago... the premise was that the fighter jet was outfitted with technology so the pilot could control the jet with his mind... reducing reaction time and gaining a competitive advantage... I can't remember the name of the book though.

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeNFO Given the technology of today, F-16 pilots shouldn't expect to get into a dogfight.

Sure, but those uppity AI's need to be taken down a notch or two and this will show them who is top gun!

[MichaelB]

Tom Cruise better watch out ...

[Out-to-Lunch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Sort of reminds me of a book that I read, I'm guessing 20-30 years ago... the premise was that the fighter jet was outfitted with technology so the pilot could control the jet with his mind... reducing reaction time and gaining a competitive advantage... I can't remember the name of the book though.

Firefox? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_(novel)

(This was more of a cold-war thing than a mind-machine interface thing, though.)

[unclemick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo Sure, but those uppity AI's need to be taken down a notch or two and this will show them who is top gun!

Back in ancient times (1980's?) there was nothing sadder than to have your radio controlled plane break off the fight and fly off 'uncontrolled' into the sunset til out of gas who knows where.

heh heh heh - times change.

[OldShooter]

A couple of things here. First, there will be more "BVR" (beyond visual range) weapons launches from fighter jets managed by AWACS type systems. Integrated battle management. Fewer dogfights.

More importantly, the maneuvering capability of the fighters is now beyond the pilots' g-force tolerance, so an unpiloted fighter will be more maneuverable. Fighters will be cheaper and lighter, too, without all the claptrap necessary to keep the pilots alive and the space necessary to house them. So even if the AI is only equal to the pilots' skills, it will still be a better choice even without considering the elimination of risk to human life.The computer doesn't have to be better.

[RetireBy90]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Sort of reminds me of a book that I read, I'm guessing 20-30 years ago... the premise was that the fighter jet was outfitted with technology so the pilot could control the jet with his mind... reducing reaction time and gaining a competitive advantage... I can't remember the name of the book though.

Movie Firefox had Clint Eastwood flying by thought and launching rockets and chaff really cool movie IMHO

[Blueskies123]

Elon Musk was being interviewed by the Airforce/Spaceforce academy a few weeks ago.
You can find it on Youtube. In that interview he was asked about pilots and jet fighters. Elon said the age of piloted jet fighters is over.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Out-to-Lunch Firefox? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_(novel) (This was more of a cold-war thing than a mind-machine interface thing, though.)

No, not Firefox.

Found it!

Quote:

Set in the then-future of 1996, Day of the Cheetah details the story of US Air Force pilot Kenneth Francis James, who is actually a Soviet KGB deep-cover agent assigned to the US High-Technology Aerospace Weapons Center (HAWC) at Groom Lake. His job at the secret base involves testing the highly advanced XF-34 Dreamstar, which is equipped with a thought-control interface. James hijacks the fighter, causing Patrick McLanahan and the rest of the HAWC crew to try to recover or destroy the plane before it reaches the USSR. The Cheetah mentioned in the novel is the XF-15F Cheetah, which is an experimental service version of the real-life F-15 S/MTD, often used as the Dreamstar's chase plane. The Dreamstar is recovered after a number of aerial dogfights over Arizona, the Caribbean, and Costa Rica, but the fallout generated by the incident forces the closure of HAWC.

[REWahoo]

Live competition between AI and human fighter pilot about to begin. You can watch on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzdhIA2S35w

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldShooter A couple of things here. First, there will be more "BVR" (beyond visual range) weapons launches from fighter jets managed by AWACS type systems. Integrated battle management. Fewer dogfights. More importantly, the maneuvering capability of the fighters is now beyond the pilots' g-force tolerance, so an unpiloted fighter will be more maneuverable. Fighters will be cheaper and lighter, too, without all the claptrap necessary to keep the pilots alive and the space necessary to house them. So even if the AI is only equal to the pilots' skills, it will still be a better choice even without considering the elimination of risk to human life.The computer doesn't have to be better.

Yep, and that's why the UAV will/is the fighter of the future. Although currently this comes with some pretty significant issues for the operator. There is nothing like "going to work" at your local Air Force base, killing bad guys, and then going home and have to deal with domestic issues. PTSD is really a big deal in the UAV world.

[Aerides]

i thought this was a review of the new Flight Simulator and I'm disappointed

[REWahoo]

Final Score: AI 5, Human 0

[Out-to-Lunch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski No, not Firefox. Found it!

Huh! So practically Firefox with roles swapped!

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo Final Score: AI 5, Human 0

Not a big surprise...poor zipper suited sun gods.

[razztazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldShooter A couple of things here. First, there will be more "BVR" (beyond visual range) weapons launches from fighter jets managed by AWACS type systems. Integrated battle management. Fewer dogfights. More importantly, the maneuvering capability of the fighters is now beyond the pilots' g-force tolerance, so an unpiloted fighter will be more maneuverable. Fighters will be cheaper and lighter, too, without all the claptrap necessary to keep the pilots alive and the space necessary to house them. So even if the AI is only equal to the pilots' skills, it will still be a better choice even without considering the elimination of risk to human life.The computer doesn't have to be better.

Exactly. I saw this whole project as some sort of money grab. Maybe some left-over budget money so rock-paper-scissors, AF wins this won. Throw money at fighter pilots. At least one of those AI companies was nonexistent until this project came along. They have a total of 30 people in the whole company. I wonder who the owner's congressman is...?



I was in on the running of intercepts as far back as 44 yrs ago and even then the game of the game was: DON'T get any closer than you have to! Not: Let's see how close I can get?