Fast Food Drive Thru Only - Is This the Future?

[Dtail]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTFan I hate drive-thru with a passion and will not get food from places that don't let you mobile order and pick up inside. Around here Chik-Fil-A and Starbucks are notorious for having drive-thru lines pretty much all the time. The wife will put up with this for her Starbucks fix but I won't.

By me also for Chik Fil A and Starbucks. I have no interest in Starbucks and if wanting Chik, then will go inside to order and eat inside which is a fairly efficient process.

[pacergal]

Quite a few of FF places here have re-opened their dining rooms, but not all. The few times we chose to eat inside, it was quite empty, with the drive thru packed.

The local Taco Bell has had a hiring sign out for several months, $17/hr, with $2/hr extra for evening hours 9pm to midnight. $19/hr and they still are short staffed, rarely have the dining room opened, but the drive thru line is long, at least when we go by.

[disneysteve]

I have a lot to say about the labor shortage but I’m on my phone so too much to type right now.

Let me just share a quick story though. This was posted to one of my eBay seller groups today. This is a perfect example of where a lot of workers have gone.
——————————————
“I just took a look at my numbers for this month and I am just so damn proud of myself. I quit my job in October. I was going to take some time off and then apply for jobs. I started reselling while thinking about what I was going to do next. I had no intentions of this becoming my full time job.

I got serious about reselling in January and I'm now making more than I made at my previous job. I love seeing the continuous growth from month to month and I've never been happier in a job. “
—————————————
COVID forced a lot of people to reevaluate what they wanted to do with their lives and many forged a new path like this person.

Oh, this person used to work at McDonalds. Now she’s already doing over 4K/month in sales and I have no doubt that number will climb because she loves what she’s doing.

[kgtest]

Drive thru is not ideal when travelling with a family. Trying to eat in the car for a lot of meals on travel days is terrible. We were really sick of it by the end of our 5 day South Dakota trip to the Black Hills/ Mt Rushmore. When we were in the hotel, we would commandeer the lobby or dining area that no longer was in operation in terms of them preparing food. That seemed to work.

[jollystomper]

Itis just not the labor shortage, it is also, at least in some areas, safety. FOr years I have known areas where the fast food places would close the dining area around 8 or 9 pm but keep the drive thru open until 1 AM. There reason was that too many folks were congregating in the dining area, and not buying anything, and they were prone to having disturbances breaking out.

The other reason for the labor shortage - have you see observed how the workers in fast food places are treated by people these days? I will just say that folks these day WAY overreact to their order being slow, or being wrong, or even more expensive than they thought it would be. It is a lot safer being behind a window than behind a counter. One has to keep that in mind, that people have to fear more for their safety working in those places these days.

[rk911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnot Day care businesses are also having trouble keeping staff. The daycare the Grands go to have been having staffing problems.

we have 3-Walgreen's pharmacies in our town. i switched our Rx's from one to another because of longer fill times and pickup lines. when I asked I was told it was staffing shortages. maybe that's the new excuse for any sort of service issues...maybe not. are pharmacy techs paid at the lower end of the scale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner I've read about these same "great resignation" employment dynamics, but I still don't fundamentally get how so many people can afford to simply "exit the workforce". I mean, we've all seen those news articles about how the majority of American's don't have enough cash (or credit) on hand to deal with a $500 emergency, such as a car repair or medical bill. Seems to me the vast majority of people who work the register at, say, Burger King can't just quit and replace that income stream with a more comfy, gig-economy job. So what are they doing now? There are only so many Uber and Lyft drivers a given area can support. I really would like to know the details behind all this.

i, as well.

a pet peeve is when the unemployment rate is reported none of the outlets report the labor participation rate. politicians of all stripes like to crow about how low the unemployment rate is but neglect to mention that fewer people are actually in the workforce.

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rk911 we have 3-Walgreen's pharmacies in our town. i switched our Rx's from one to another because of longer fill times and pickup lines. when I asked I was told it was staffing shortages. maybe that's the new excuse for any sort of service issues...maybe not. are pharmacy techs paid at the lower end of the scale

I believe the average pharmacy tech is paid not much over $30K a year. I am not surprised there would be shortages.

[Time2]

Over 5 years ago I had breakfast with 5 to 9 older fellows, twice a week at a Hardees. Even then, they had a fast employee turnover and a problem keeping enough workers. Then one day there was a squabble with the manager, I only arrived for the latter part, but a letter was sent and he was fired. We started going to a McDonalds for several years, but the place kinda wore out, as in seat covers were worn, the grease on the floor made it slippery and then they were having a coin shortage and rather than round up or down, your $4.02 meal was $5.00 and they said the difference will go the Ronald McDonald house. That was the last straw, we moved to Tudors Biscuit World, there is a wonderful manager there and we get great service.
So, recently one of the old fellows dropped in at Hardees and found, the lobby still closed, because of worker shortage.

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneysteve COVID forced a lot of people to reevaluate what they wanted to do with their lives and many forged a new path like this person. Oh, this person used to work at McDonalds. Now she’s already doing over 4K/month in sales and I have no doubt that number will climb because she loves what she’s doing.

I would submit that even if she was making the same (or even slightly less) than what she was making at McDonald's, she would still prefer what she was doing now due to the difference in job satisfaction.

[disneysteve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollystomper I would submit that even if she was making the same (or even slightly less) than what she was making at McDonald's, she would still prefer what she was doing now due to the difference in job satisfaction.

Definitely. She’s now her own boss, sets her own hours, and loves what she’s doing. And as she expands her knowledge of what to sell, I have no doubt that her income will greatly surpass what she used to make.

[Sojourner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by disneysteve "I got serious about reselling in January and I'm now making more than I made at my previous job. I love seeing the continuous growth from month to month and I've never been happier in a job. “ ————————————— COVID forced a lot of people to reevaluate what they wanted to do with their lives and many forged a new path like this person. Oh, this person used to work at McDonalds. Now she’s already doing over 4K/month in sales and I have no doubt that number will climb because she loves what she’s doing.

While I certainly believe this kind of very successful job/career transition is happening for some ex-fast food workers, I highly doubt it's typical. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I just don't see how large numbers of fast food line cooks, cashiers, janitors, etc. are suddenly finding great success in fields like Internet sales/entrepreneurship. I'm sure there are the rare success stories, but what about the other 95%, the ones who were fast food workers because they didn't have the skills, motivation, ambition, smarts, and/or education to get better jobs?

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner While I certainly believe this kind of very successful job/career transition is happening for some ex-fast food workers, I highly doubt it's typical. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I just don't see how large numbers of fast food line cooks, cashiers, janitors, etc. are suddenly finding great success in fields like Internet sales/entrepreneurship. I'm sure there are the rare success stories, but what about the other 95%, the ones who were fast food workers because they didn't have the skills, motivation, ambition, smarts, and/or education to get better jobs?

Success stories for such transitions usually include either a fair amount of luck, or more likely, a LOT of perseverance. Good j*bs ARE out there and the current low unemployment rate favors folks who otherwise might struggle to achieve a more ideal position. YMMV

[rk911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner While I certainly believe this kind of very successful job/career transition is happening for some ex-fast food workers, I highly doubt it's typical. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I just don't see how large numbers of fast food line cooks, cashiers, janitors, etc. are suddenly finding great success in fields like Internet sales/entrepreneurship. I'm sure there are the rare success stories, but what about the other 95%, the ones who were fast food workers because they didn't have the skills, motivation, ambition, smarts, and/or education to get better jobs?

my late BIL served a 5-year hitch in the US Army until '72. when he was out and despite a degree in mechanical engineering he chose instead to live a minimalist lifestyle...delivering newspapers and hustling pool. he did that successfully for many years before finally putting his degree to work for Factory Mutual. maybe he was a trend-setter without even knowing it.

[Koolau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rk911 my late BIL served a 5-year hitch in the US Army until '72. when he was out and despite a degree in mechanical engineering he chose instead to live a minimalist lifestyle...delivering newspapers and hustling pool. he did that successfully for many years before finally putting his degree to work for Factory Mutual. maybe he was a trend-setter without even knowing it.

My cousin was a very smart guy. He excelled in school and took top honors. He started a c*reer at a drug company but was stymied by their rigid advancement process. Top performers were paid better and did advance faster, but there were no "jumps" within his career path. He was doing the work of a PhD but only had a BS degree. He became frustrated and quit. Instead of taking a similar (very well paid but confining position) with another company, he spent the rest of his life doing things like sheep farming, antique refinishing and clock repair. He was virtually broke but survived. He remained frustrated that he was so "poor" but would not bend to convention.

My thinking: If you're gonna be frustrated, at least be well paid for it. YMMV

[jcfradio]

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Originally Posted by Midpack What I’ve read: Some parents were forced to stay home to care for their kids during Covid, found ways to reorder their lives, and decided they preferred the new arrangement and exited the workforce. Some folks still fear Covid, and aren’t willing to go back to close quarters with co-workers, especially true for low wage jobs (like fast food). Some older workers gave up and retired. Older teachers, nurses, daycare, pilots/flight attendants, truck drivers, small business owners ruined by Covid restrictions (I know several personally), etc. Some lower wage job holders decided the low pay wasn’t enough to put up with work BS, to go in another direction, newly discovered side hustles became jobs. Social media has made new careers some older generations don’t recognize, influencers, YouTubers, drone photography, etc. Covid forced many people to change their lives, and a significant number of them decided the new arrangement was acceptable.

I am not a fast food worker, but... there are some contrarions like me (a tech worker) who have realized how short staffed our former employers are, and have gone back part time being able to name our price. Since I don't really need the money but enjoy the project, I know that if it starts to cramp my lifestyle, I can walk away. Ah, the benefits of being FI!

[disneysteve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midpack What I’ve read: Some parents were forced to stay home to care for their kids during Covid, found ways to reorder their lives, and decided they preferred the new arrangement and exited the workforce. Some folks still fear Covid, and aren’t willing to go back to close quarters with co-workers, especially true for low wage jobs (like fast food). Some older workers gave up and retired. Older teachers, nurses, daycare, pilots/flight attendants, truck drivers, small business owners ruined by Covid restrictions (I know several personally), etc. Some lower wage job holders decided the low pay wasn’t enough to put up with work BS, to go in another direction, newly discovered side hustles became jobs. Social media has made new careers some older generations don’t recognize, influencers, YouTubers, drone photography, etc. Covid forced many people to change their lives, and a significant number of them decided the new arrangement was acceptable.

All of this is true, and more.


Nearly 1 million Americans have died of COVID. Many were elderly but not all were. Plenty were still in the workforce. Those workers aren't ever coming back.


The last thing I read said that over 3 million more people retired than historical trends would have accounted for. Maybe a small percentage will go back to work but most of those workers are probably gone for good.


Many people were forced out of their jobs due to COVID closures. They had to find other work so they're likely never going back to the jobs they previously held.


Many people moved to gig work, as noted earlier. When I go grocery shopping each week, I think I see more Instacart workers than I do regular shoppers like me. A lot of people switched to grocery delivery or curbside pickup due to COVID and liked it so much they are sticking with it. That has boosted the need for paid shoppers. The same goes for Uber Eats and Door Dash and Caviar and GoPuff and other food and household item delivery services. Heck, my wife switched to curbside pickup or delivery from Target and Walmart and has continued to shop that way even though we are comfortable going into the stores now. Services like Fiverr are also a means for people to earn from the comfort of their homes.



Many people used the forced change to chart their own course and start their own businesses. Ebay is a prime example but also Poshmark and Mercari and Etsy and others. Especially for lower income workers, it's quite easy to replace that income via online sales. Making 30K or so on ebay is something nearly any able-bodied person can do.


Then there are people who simply aren't going back to work. That is predominantly women who have left the workforce due to child care issues. Many day cares closed permanently over the past 2 years. Once they were forced to do without, many families found that by eliminating the day care expense, commuting costs, clothing costs, and trimming some other household expenses like dining out, they could manage just fine without the 2nd income. I also know a number of people personally who pulled their kids out of school due to COVID and switched to either home schooling or a virtual school so one parent needs to be home with them.


On the young end of the scale, a lot of high school seniors opted to take a gap year rather than start college virtually, and some existing college students did the same. That means there will be a delay in those folks hitting the labor market after graduation. They may pick up some temporary work during the gap year but they won't launch into their careers for an extra year.


So lots and lots of reasons behind the labor shortage, and I've only touched on some of them.

[jollystomper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner While I certainly believe this kind of very successful job/career transition is happening for some ex-fast food workers, I highly doubt it's typical. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I just don't see how large numbers of fast food line cooks, cashiers, janitors, etc. are suddenly finding great success in fields like Internet sales/entrepreneurship. I'm sure there are the rare success stories, but what about the other 95%, the ones who were fast food workers because they didn't have the skills, motivation, ambition, smarts, and/or education to get better jobs?

The fast food job was never meant to be a "career". It was meant to be any entry into the workforce. Most folks who start in that move on to something else. While that certainly is not everyone, it does not need much of an acceleration (which the pandemic surely added many factors to help) of folks no longer seeing that as a viable option to cause a shortage.

The other factor - I can recall a time where those places were actively recruiting older/retired workers. That is not happening anymore, and older/retired folks would been even less interested in working in those places these days That contributes to the shortage.

In addition, the good ones may not have skills for other areas, but could have moved "up" the chain to better restaurants or food service environments than fast food.

[disneysteve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollystomper The fast food job was never meant to be a "career". It was meant to be any entry into the workforce. Most folks who start in that move on to something else. While that certainly is not everyone, it does not need much of an acceleration (which the pandemic surely added many factors to help) of folks no longer seeing that as a viable option to cause a shortage. The other factor - I can recall a time where those places were actively recruiting older/retired workers. That is not happening anymore, and older/retired folks would been even less interested in working in those places these days That contributes to the shortage. In addition, the good ones may not have skills for other areas, but could have moved "up" the chain to better restaurants or food service environments than fast food.

All true. Things like gig work and online sales have made the minimum wage jobs, even with a $15 minimum, less appealing. It's not all that difficult to match or beat that on your own with far better working conditions.


And yes, seniors used to fill a lot of front line customer service positions, but they don't want those jobs anymore.

[audreyh1]

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Originally Posted by F.I.R.E User I never wait. I order from app. You also get discounts. Curbside. Done.

On road trips at Starbucks, we order via mobile app from 5 mins away. If the line is long we run inside. Our order is usually sitting on the counter or just called out.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollystomper I believe the average pharmacy tech is paid not much over $30K a year. I am not surprised there would be shortages.

I know degreed Pharmacists make a great salary, and I confirmed. But I didn’t know Pharm Techs don’t make much, so you’re right (too). And I don’t doubt Walgreens, CVS and most others use Pharm Techs for everything possible. Competition does that to the benefit of consumers more than employees?