Female Submarine Sailors

[2soon2tell]

Nords & Gumby

I've read that the Navy is starting a pilot program to allow females to serve on subs. The article stated that they would start on boomers since there is more room for separate accommodations.

IMHO this is long overdue but some say it will not work very well. Your opinions please.

[Westernskies]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2soon2tell Nords & Gumby I've read that the Navy is starting a pilot program to allow females to serve on subs. The article stated that they would start on boomers since there is more room for separate accommodations. IMHO this is long overdue but some say it will not work very well. Your opinions please.

This ties in nicely with Nords joke about "Onan Generators" in NW-Bound's RV thread.

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...tml#post911872.

[Nords]

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...nes-46492.html

Academy Women to Become 1st Submariners

Best move for the submarine force since Truman integrated the armed forces.

The OHIO class were designed for mixed-gender crews from the keel up, and the rest of the Navy has pretty well ironed out the women-at-sea issues. During my active-duty days I got so tired of hearing (submarine) flag officers soberly warn about this.

Our kid is tempted ("Hey, why do the Academy women get to go first?!?") but if she joined the submarine force then she'd never get her dream of transferring to the Civil Engineering Corps.

Personally I'm really glad that I never had to compete with my spouse for promotion...

[Westernskies]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Personally I'm really glad that I never had to compete with my spouse for promotion...

+1

[John Galt]

provides a way for the men to release tension at least

[Fireup2020]

I really am suprised it took this long for this topic to be discussed on this forum.

[FinanceDude]

I am a big fan of women in uniform............

However, it will forever change discussion about when and where "submarine races" are held..........

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinanceDude I am a big fan of women in uniform............

Or out of uniform.

Ha

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2soon2tell I've read that the Navy is starting a pilot program to allow females to serve on subs. The article stated that they would start on boomers since there is more room for separate accommodations.

So do they figure the boomers are too old to get pregnant so no harm, no foul?

[clifp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff So do they figure the boomers are too old to get pregnant so no harm, no foul?

[Westernskies]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff So do they figure the boomers are too old to get pregnant so no harm, no foul?

besides, only senior seamen on the boomers...

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireup2025 I really am suprised it took this long for this topic to be discussed on this forum.

... and I'm surprised that it stayed professional for as long as it did.

So back on topic for a second-- what's your advice to the troops? I bet you'd have no trouble getting snapped up for Supply Corps or nuclear-power school. If you went nuke then I'd be happy to send you one of my sets of gold dolphins. Have any of your women officers/enlisted volunteered for some of that righteous sub pay yet?

I guess I should ask if this news has inspired any of your men officers/enlisted to volunteer for the submarine force as well...

By the way, here's the desktop on my daughter's laptop:

[RonBoyd]

There is so much of this thread that as gone over my head... most of it, I think.

[Gumby]

I wonder where they will find enough young women dumb enough to want to do it? Young men are notoriously stupid (well, I was), but I would think women would have more sense than to lock themselves underwater in a smelly steel tube for months at a time.

Seriously, I see no reason why women should not serve on submarines. It's not like it requires brute strength. I think starting with women junior officers is probably the best way to go. Junior enlisted women would probably face more harassment from the troglodytes, but officers have some built in protection from mistreatment.

In the submarine force, it's all about competence. Your very survival, as well as the survival of everyone else on board, depends on each and every crew member doing their job properly. If the troops see that you are competent, they treat you with respect. If they see you as incompetent, they don't -- and being an officer won't save you if you don't know your stuff.

I expect that mixed crews will face some problems early on. The toughest, I think, is the love triangle situation. Once you break up, you will continue to live in very close proximity for an extended period of time. I can see hard feelings between shipmates developing as a consequence. An important part of being able to live in such horrible conditions, piled one atop the other, is being easy to get along with. Human emotions that can be allowed full flower in other situations may prove dangerous in that environment.

That said, I am certain that the young sailors, male and female, who are serving today are far more mature and professional than I ever was. I'm sure that they will do just fine.

[Bestwifeever]

I think there are studies that show coed dorms, where even roommates can be coed, have less extracurricular physical actitivities among the residents. Probably would become true of submarine dwellers, also.

But regardless, women should be "allowed" to serve anywhere men are "allowed" to serve.

[John Galt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever I think there are studies that show coed dorms, where even roommates can be coed, have less extracurricular physical actitivities among the residents. Probably would become true of submarine dwellers, also.

That makes sense. There's probably a ton of gay relationships going on right now on the all-male submarines, but as soon as they bring in the girls all of that nonsense will stop!

[ls99]

Her new command, a submarine.




The Rise and Fall of a Female Captain Bligh

By Mark Thompson / Washington Wednesday, Mar. 03, 2010






Holly Graf: Navy Relieves Harsh Commander of USS Cowpens - TIME

[Gumby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestwifeever I think there are studies that show coed dorms, where even roommates can be coed, have less extracurricular physical actitivities among the residents. Probably would become true of submarine dwellers, also. .

It's not really about the physical contact, but rather the emotional bonds. And, frankly, I expect the young lads to be more of a problem in that respect than the young lasses.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby Seriously, I see no reason why women should not serve on submarines.

I had to listen to this "We just can't" crap all the time on SUBPAC staff in 1992-94, and frequently it was the admirals talking. So in "support" of their endeavors (and with apologies to David Letterman) we came up "The Top Ten Reasons That Women Can't Serve on Submarines". Keep in mind that these are actual quotes from various senior officers in briefs and at informal meetings, presumably sober during at least one of them.

10. "Women's ova are adversely and permanently affected by radiation while men's sperm recovers after a certain amount of time." Maybe this was true in the SKATE and PERMIT class days, but women have been on aircraft carriers and nuclear prototypes for decades without problems. Besides, what about that 1990s study that decided radiation was 3x more hazardous than previously promulgated? We didn't change the way we did business then, either, did we? There's a lot of debate among the men whether everyone's sperm really recovers... or if it was that way to begin with.
9. "Ectopic pregnancies only offer a four-hour MEDEVAC window before their lives are threatened." This was on the morning after I'd been up for 36 hours arranging a helicopter MEDEVAC in the Sea of Japan for a sailor whose appendix had gone from "ouch" to "ruptured" within three hours. Corpsmen are technically qualified to operate in either situation but no one, least of all the corpsman, wants the proficiency.
8. "Submarine berthing is not designed for women." OHIO-class submarines have nine-rack berthing compartments with their own doors. The other answer was "Hey, it's not designed for men, either, but we still have to sleep there!"
7. "Submarine sanitary systems aren't equipped to handle women crew." I'm not sure whose answer to this was more unprintable-- the engineer's or the women's.
6. "We can't require the women to stand watch if they're affected by PMS." Yeah, and we don't require the men to stand watch either if they're affected by venereal disease, but one of the genders had a choice in the matter...
5. "Perfume is an atmosphere contaminant." Yeah, so is tobacco smoke, but we figured out how to handle that too. He said it with a straight face, but he retired after that tour.
4. "Sex at sea." And how will that be changed by having women on board? From the male submariners: "Hey, what about 'Don't ask, don't tell'?"
3. "Submarine passageways aren't designed for both men and women, and bodily contact will be the inevitable result." Apparently this spokesperson had never been on a Navy aircraft. Once again the male submariners said "Hey, they're not designed for men, either, but we still have to use them!"
2. "There's not enough berthing." Uhm, admiral, the LOS ANGELES-class submarines have always been about 20 spaces short on berthing, too, but we make the guys hot-rack anyway.

And the top reason that women couldn't serve aboard submarines?

1. "The Wive's Clubs will never support it"! Today those organizations are known as "Family Readiness Groups", so it won't be a problem...

[ls99]

Recall the the early days of female scientist aboard research vessels. Many adjustments had to be made. Cabins, language cleanup example. The major one was the "educational" movies were banned by the captain. Shortly thereafter smoking below decks was banned.

I'm glad that modern sailors are more enlightened appreciate the opportunities of pheromones presented by working in such close quarters. I can't say that it was so in my time in the service.