Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-07-2018, 05:39 PM   #81
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Elyria, OH
Posts: 1,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterey298sc View Post
If you leave your estate to charity, you are not penniless. For the homeless on the streets, when they die and no one claims them the tax payers of that city pay a funeral home for a cremation under indegent laws. The city has to research your background to make sure a person is truly indigent , then hires us to cremate on tax payer dime.
Do local governments really spend much time researching a deceased person's financial affairs? I'd think their legal options might be severely limited. There are also obvious time constraints.

An interesting fact: No one can be compelled to claim a body, not even the next-of-kin. Many people don't know that.

Another fact: My father was found dead in his home, they estimated about 3 days after he'd actually passed. A coroner took possession and performed an autopsy. Due to complicated circumstances at the time, I chose to disclaim his body. His remains were transferred to a funeral home of the city's choosing. The funeral director contacted me for instructions on the disposition. I chose cremation. Because he was a veteran, his remains were buried free of charge in a military cemetery about an hour from my home. Throughout most of the process, arrangements were handled via phone/mail/fax, and rather quickly. Too quickly for the city of his residence to have taken the time to find out whether or not he was truly indigent. No one even asked or seemed to care.

Afterwards, I got paperwork from the funeral director. He wanted me to sign, certifying that he'd performed certain services, which in all honesty, I really couldn't, not the way it was written on the form. He claimed he needed my signature to get paid by the city. I called the city and was told in no uncertain terms not to sign the paperwork because the funeral director was trying to commit fraud. The city had paid him upfront for his services and the funeral director was trying to double-dip. In fact, they had recently decided not to renew their contract with him and he knew that and was quite upset about it. When I called the funeral director to tell him I'd been instructed not to sign the paperwork because he'd already been paid, he swore at me and hung up. Never heard from him again.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but when I see misinformation (bolded above) that is being presented as an absolute, I feel the need to speak up.
gwraigty is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-07-2018, 05:58 PM   #82
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwraigty View Post
Do local governments really spend much time researching a deceased person's financial affairs? I'd think their legal options might be severely limited. There are also obvious time constraints.

An interesting fact: No one can be compelled to claim a body, not even the next-of-kin. Many people don't know that.

Another fact: My father was found dead in his home, they estimated about 3 days after he'd actually passed. A coroner took possession and performed an autopsy. Due to complicated circumstances at the time, I chose to disclaim his body. His remains were transferred to a funeral home of the city's choosing. The funeral director contacted me for instructions on the disposition. I chose cremation. Because he was a veteran, his remains were buried free of charge in a military cemetery about an hour from my home. Throughout most of the process, arrangements were handled via phone/mail/fax, and rather quickly. Too quickly for the city of his residence to have taken the time to find out whether or not he was truly indigent. No one even asked or seemed to care.

Afterwards, I got paperwork from the funeral director. He wanted me to sign, certifying that he'd performed certain services, which in all honesty, I really couldn't, not the way it was written on the form. He claimed he needed my signature to get paid by the city. I called the city and was told in no uncertain terms not to sign the paperwork because the funeral director was trying to commit fraud. The city had paid him upfront for his services and the funeral director was trying to double-dip. In fact, they had recently decided not to renew their contract with him and he knew that and was quite upset about it. When I called the funeral director to tell him I'd been instructed not to sign the paperwork because he'd already been paid, he swore at me and hung up. Never heard from him again.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but when I see misinformation (bolded above) that is being presented as an absolute, I feel the need to speak up.
I can only speak for our state and city. We have an application form the city requires with all the deceased info. They take 48 hrs to let Me know if they will pay for the cremation . No forms to sign, The family has to sign only
The cremation Authorization form only. If family refuses to sign , I am not involved at all. Then the Coronor ( highest power) signs forms and city pays a contracted funeral home to cremate. .
Monterey298sc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 06:20 AM   #83
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: dubuque
Posts: 943
you mentioned a green funeral. what is considered a green funeral? might be a dumb question, but I want to make sure I am keeping things straight.
frank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 07:41 AM   #84
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank View Post
you mentioned a green funeral. what is considered a green funeral? might be a dumb question, but I want to make sure I am keeping things straight.
Simple burial in a scroud wrapped or wicker casket .
No concrete vault , no metal casket. No embalming, . However in my city only 1 Cemetery has an area for Green burials. Twice the cost at cemetery for those spaces because of environmental water concerns. Had to be developed just for no containment . Funeral homes cost are the same for the care of the dead. So if you think it is less expensive , no it is not. More fake news.
Monterey298sc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 08:01 AM   #85
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 4,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
But I spent some time chatting with the second one and learned a lot. He had set up one of his buildings to cater to the local Indian population, where cremation is a huge deal. It's a big ceremony involving all the relatives and friends, with some interesting protocols, like the oldest son is the one to light the fire (push a switch, actually). There is a huge catered meal, and it's a major event for the community. I didn't ask about the price for all that, but obviously it would be a lot higher than a simple direct cremation.

I was actually very impressed at how he had modified the building (he described himself as a frustrated architect) and done so much to make the people of Indian heritage comfortable and at ease with the procedure in terms of their traditional culture, even though they are a very small part of the local population.
This parallels what I saw on the cremation ghats of the Ganges last March. They stack 300 lbs. of wood on the funeral pyre, put the body (draped in a shroud) on it, then pile on another 300 lbs. of wood. The "chief mourner" (usually the oldest son, but our guide said it was his sister when one of his family died because she'd been their chief caregiver) lights the fire. We were there at Varanasi during the cremations one night. Lots of bright lights and festive music. We were in a boat, and permitted to take pictures up to a point, then told as we got closer that beyond that point, no pictures were permitted out of respect for the mourners.



I'm glad there are funeral directors who try to re-create that for the Indian community.
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 02:36 PM   #86
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterey298sc View Post
.... More fake news.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 02:49 PM   #87
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ExFlyBoy5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Country Living
Posts: 4,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterey298sc View Post
Simple burial in a scroud wrapped or wicker casket .
No concrete vault , no metal casket. No embalming, . However in my city only 1 Cemetery has an area for Green burials. Twice the cost at cemetery for those spaces because of environmental water concerns. Had to be developed just for no containment . Funeral homes cost are the same for the care of the dead. So if you think it is less expensive , no it is not. More fake news.
I wouldn't be quick to make this assumption. In our area, you can get a plot, have it opened/closed and conduct the graveside service for about $2000 (including transport from place of death to funeral home to grave site) by a funeral home. I don't know of a traditional funeral that involves burial that can be done that cheap. If you chose to do a funeral at home (which is allowed in this state), then you could have it all done for about a grand.

Environmental water concerns? Do they allow for embalming at that cemetery?
__________________
"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be." -Peter Gibbons
Retired in 2014 at the Ripe Age of 40
ExFlyBoy5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 03:02 PM   #88
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 View Post
I wouldn't be quick to make this assumption. In our area, you can get a plot, have it opened/closed and conduct the graveside service for about $2000 (including transport from place of death to funeral home to grave site) by a funeral home. I don't know of a traditional funeral that involves burial that can be done that cheap. If you chose to do a funeral at home (which is allowed in this state), then you could have it all done for about a grand.

Environmental water concerns? Do they allow for embalming at that cemetery?
Lets just say if a cemetery or community allows burial of potential thousands of bodies decomposing and leaching into our aquifer, I would not want to live close by. You go right ahead. Not for me, trust me I know and have seen decomposing humans. Better live on bottled water. That is what happens in 3rd world countries. This is USA.
Monterey298sc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 03:10 PM   #89
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ExFlyBoy5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Country Living
Posts: 4,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterey298sc View Post
Lets just say if a cemetery or community allows burial of potential thousands of bodies decomposing and leaching into our aquifer, I would not want to live close by. You go right ahead. Not for me, trust me I know and have seen decomposing humans. Better live on bottled water. That is what happens in 3rd world countries. This is USA.
I don't disagree with you 100%, but how is that any worse than embalming fluid? Just because the embalmed remains are in a casket and a concrete (or other) container, that doesn't mean that they don't break down and leach into the aquifer. There is plenty of evidence (and pics online if you can stomach it) that shows that caskets/vaults that don't function as people think they do. Here is a little reading on the subject (without the pictures or stomach turning descriptions) https://funerals.org/embalming-myths-facts/

I think this has gone of the rails a bit, and I have put in my .02 worth, so I am stepping away. Thanks for your input on the subject, though, I am sure many folks will learn a lot from it.
__________________
"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be." -Peter Gibbons
Retired in 2014 at the Ripe Age of 40
ExFlyBoy5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 03:14 PM   #90
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Historic Florida
Posts: 4,795
If anything this banter and the opinions of an expert has reinforced that we will be cremated with no fanfare and ashes cast wherever the surviving one of us wants. In my case the Ocean assuming it is permitted. I.E. the most economical disposition with no casket.

I just looked it up locally and cremation is $895 all in with an Urn.
__________________
"Never Argue With a Fool, Onlookers May Not Be Able To Tell the Difference." - Mark Twain
ShokWaveRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 03:43 PM   #91
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 22,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwraigty View Post
You have a direct financial interest in people spending more money to dispose of remains, so your comments aren't exactly neutral on this matter.
It seems to me that Monterey298sc has simply been relating his experience and perspective from his side of the desk. I've seen no instance that he was advocating one position over another. Also bear in mind that state laws vary widely, what is the law in the state where he lives is likely very different in other states.

I have found his perspective enlightening and thank him for it.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 06:39 AM   #92
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: dubuque
Posts: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
It seems to me that Monterey298sc has simply been relating his experience and perspective from his side of the desk. I've seen no instance that he was advocating one position over another. Also bear in mind that state laws vary widely, what is the law in the state where he lives is likely very different in other states.

I have found his perspective enlightening and thank him for it.
+1
frank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 07:28 AM   #93
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
It seems to me that Monterey298sc has simply been relating his experience and perspective from his side of the desk. I've seen no instance that he was advocating one position over another. Also bear in mind that state laws vary widely, what is the law in the state where he lives is likely very different in other states.

I have found his perspective enlightening and thank him for it.
I have not said a word about price or as a funeral professional tried to force people to decide on caskets, vaults, and embalming. To each his own. I am surprised no one here has asked about liquid hydrolysis. The liquefication of your body. A stainless tube like vessel your body is placed in and a couple of environmental safe elements and water will dissolve you flesh and flush down the toilet. Let the bones dry out a few days and then pulverize and place in a urn. Don’t have to burn fossil fuels like in cremation.
I will be FIRING in the next few years , hope by 62 so I don’t really care what happens in our industry in the future. Yes, I will be buried. I have seen all types of dispositions, I came in this world in one piece and will leave in one piece. I have seen hundreds cremated , I don’t want burned.
I have cremated, buried and embalmed my best friends from high school the last few years, tired of seeing death everyday and sadness. I need some happiness in my FIRE sooner then later.
Monterey298sc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 10:53 AM   #94
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 2,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
If anything this banter and the opinions of an expert has reinforced that we will be cremated with no fanfare and ashes cast wherever the surviving one of us wants. In my case the Ocean assuming it is permitted. I.E. the most economical disposition with no casket.

I just looked it up locally and cremation is $895 all in with an Urn.
+1000

Same price here locally, very convenient for the family, & no environmental concerns with inert cremains, whether scattered or interred.
ncbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2018, 01:43 PM   #95
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
VanWinkle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
If anything this banter and the opinions of an expert has reinforced that we will be cremated with no fanfare and ashes cast wherever the surviving one of us wants. In my case the Ocean assuming it is permitted. I.E. the most economical disposition with no casket.

I just looked it up locally and cremation is $895 all in with an Urn.
My brother has done several "burials at Sea" with ashes for several friends in Florida and on the Mississippi River at the request of the deceased or family at no charge.
__________________
Retired May 13th(Friday) 2016 at age 61.
VanWinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 05:18 PM   #96
Dryer sheet aficionado
partition1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank View Post
I was wondering what the thoughts are on final expense insurance. is this insurance cost-effective? is it just as beneficial to pay at the time when needed? I am sure there are posts out there about this subject, but I couldn't find them. so if there are please redirect.
It cost nearly 10k for my late husband's (46 years old) burial. Pine box, cremation and rented (closed) casket for the wake...it still stung to get the bill and be widowed so young. Since we knew beforehand his illness didn't have a happy ending (glioblastoma mf)...I visited the funeral parlor a month prior to the event and had time to "budget".

As our oncologist told us, get your affairs in order...hope for the best, plan for the worst.
partition1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 05:58 PM   #97
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 11,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterey298sc View Post
I have not said a word about price or as a funeral professional tried to force people to decide on caskets, vaults, and embalming. To each his own. I am surprised no one here has asked about liquid hydrolysis. The liquefication of your body. A stainless tube like vessel your body is placed in and a couple of environmental safe elements and water will dissolve you flesh and flush down the toilet. Let the bones dry out a few days and then pulverize and place in a urn. Donít have to burn fossil fuels like in cremation.
I will be FIRING in the next few years , hope by 62 so I donít really care what happens in our industry in the future. Yes, I will be buried. I have seen all types of dispositions, I came in this world in one piece and will leave in one piece. I have seen hundreds cremated , I donít want burned.
I have cremated, buried and embalmed my best friends from high school the last few years, tired of seeing death everyday and sadness. I need some happiness in my FIRE sooner then later.
I have appreciated your input on this subject, after all unlike many other subjects, this is one that affects everybody.
__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
Sunset is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 06:40 PM   #98
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Orlando
Posts: 2,320
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
Direct cremation here is under $1000 at a couple of local no-frills places.

I'm setting up the above next week for a terminally ill relative.

Service at their church is free, as is scattering the ashes in the church's graveyard.

Or their family might decide to pay for internment of the cremains with a (small) gravestone.
Mom passed 2 weeks ago. While in the ICU, she and I discuss and she indicates she wants to be cremated (which is good because that's what was going to happen). We picked out her urns on Costco .com. $749 + $99 = less than $1,000.

FYI - Beautiful caskets on Costco.com are less than $1,000.
Buckeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2018, 06:53 PM   #99
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Katsmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW Area (Tx)
Posts: 4,684
My mother died a few months ago. She had prepaid for her funeral years ago and for her place. She and my dad had bought plots many years ago which they traded in for mausoleum spots a long time ago. The cost of the mausoleum spots for the 2 of them (buried in same slot) was over $4500 over 20 years ago! Anyway, the funeral cost paid for 40 years ago was about $1600.

This was at the funeral home/cemetary literally down the street from my mom's home. It was honesty very, very, very nice to not have to worry about this financially. Sure, I got money from my mom's bank account (POD to me) but, honestly, I was glad to not have to pay anything from it.

There were a few things that my mom had paid for that we elected not to do and we got credit for what my mom paid for those things (no live musician, no limousine, etc). We paid out of pocket for a couple of things: clergy honorarium, expanded obit and the casket flowers. The total cost was very small.

There was literally no attempt to upsell us on anything. They didn't try to sell us a more expensive casket or anything else. Dealing with the funeral director (a woman -- she says many of younger directors are now female) was actually a pleasure.

Anyway - I was super glad my mom had done all of this. That said I don't plan to do it myself.

The minister who did my mom's funeral says that he plans to do direct cremation for himself. And, that is what DH and I both want. I don't actually particularly want a service. I might not mind a wake. DH feels the same.
Katsmeow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insurance the final frontier...These are the voyages from ER to Medicare Luck_Club Health and Early Retirement 9 09-25-2017 08:51 AM
burial insurance or other final arrangements frank Other topics 27 01-05-2017 12:33 AM
401k (high expense ratio) vs. Non-Tax deferred account (low expense ratio) Mike54 FIRE and Money 15 11-11-2012 11:31 PM
Assessment of Status of New Federal LTC Insurance in final health bill. samclem Health and Early Retirement 6 01-01-2010 11:17 AM
FireCalc Newbie: Wide variability-final portfolio Delawaredave5 FIRE and Money 14 03-16-2005 08:50 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:34 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.