FIRE is a lonely passion

[Carpediem]

I would love to evangelize about FIRE to my friends and family (especially my young adult family)...but I don’t. I try to keep my mouth shut until they ask (only 2 have asked). I have to remind myself that it is none of my business how they handle their money.

The bolded part above is my greatest disappointment. Our young adult kids tune us out very quickly if we ever try to mention saving for retirement. Unfortunately, they can't/won't think that far ahead. On the other hand, I suppose I probably did the same thing at their age.

 

[mystang52]

I would love to evangelize about FIRE to my friends and family (especially my young adult family)...but I don’t. I try to keep my mouth shut until they ask (only 2 have asked). I have to remind myself that it is none of my business how they handle their money.

This has always been my approach. On another similar thread a while back, I mentioned that I made "quiet" attempts to get my staff to consider minimum 401K contributions, or even minimum deductions for US Savings Bonds. 4 employers, 100 or so subordinates, and to the best of my knowledge convinced exactly.....2.

 

[TDub]

To the OP,

I agree with your sentiment as for many in the civilian world not necessarily being interested in personal finance, but I am a little surprised to hear you say this knowing your occupation. Personal finance comes up all the time at my base, especially with the Blended Retirement System decision last year, changing BAH, GS civilian job conversions, and Tricare status changes (OK, that's more for reservists, but you get the idea). They may not all embrace FIRE, but they do care about their paychecks.

I would think you should be able to get your "fix" at work either talking to other officers or mentoring other airmen about financial awareness. To a degree, Our "personal" finance IS Uncle Sam's business...at least that's what they tell you at GTC briefings...
So go ahead, talk finance at work...you might just save a career or two.

Thanks for you and your wife's service,
LB

I’ve thought about hosting a brown bag discussion for anyone who’s interested. And you’re right, many financial topics are discussed quite openly...GTC, BAH, BRS vs High 36...but I’m referring more to sharing personal finance or FIRE strategies, tips, goals, successes and failures...the kinds of reciprocal sharing one does with good friends and family members. Sometimes it’s nice to have some company on a journey.

I was ruminating, and a little sad that personal finance is still a topic most people won’t touch. But this forum is here, so it’s NBD! Grateful DW is so on board, too.

 

[Rianne]

I love the concept of FIRE. I think it’s brilliant and worthwhile and there’s so much hope in the possibility. It’s not for everyone, and some make strong arguments that it’s all but impossible for many low-income earners. I get that.

But why is it so difficult to find people who are interested in or willing to talk about personal finance, let alone interested in FIRE?

It’s just weird to have this passion, and have virtually no one to share it with besides DW.
It’s especially weird because I want the people I care about to know FIRE is a thing and that it’s doable. I want them to feel this excitement and hope. But when the subject has been broached, just a teeny tiny bit, it’s clear they aren’t interested in further discussion.

Do you all just live “in secret”, as it were?

(Did I miss somewhere that the first rule of FIRE Club is don’t talk about FIRE Club?)

I share your pain. I've reverted to our "cheapness" with the relatives and friends. I simply talk about all the different ways we save money, frugal living if you will. They know we're retired (DH does have side gig consulting, but was his choice to stay connected, he could quit that at any time).

Certain relatives call us "cheap" and I was insulted at first. This forum gave me strength. We live pretty well! Overseas vacations, stuck in ATT UVerse, enjoy life for the most part. I make no excuses for the ways we do save, so the message is out there to our family and friends. It's hard to give advice to someone who does not want to listen. Even family who is in serious debt, yet continues to spend like drunken sailors. No offense to the drunken sailors on this forum.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I’ve thought about hosting a brown bag discussion for anyone who’s interested. And you’re right, many financial topics are discussed quite openly...GTC, BAH, BRS vs High 36...but I’m referring more to sharing personal finance or FIRE strategies, tips, goals, successes and failures...the kinds of reciprocal sharing one does with good friends and family members. Sometimes it’s nice to have some company on a journey.

I was ruminating, and a little sad that personal finance is still a topic most people won’t touch. But this forum is here, so it’s NBD! Grateful DW is so on board, too.

I can relate...as a retired AF enlisted "sweaty"

It was very difficult to discuss FIRE plans/methods/etc with my co-w*rkers/friends; most of whom were pilots (making good money and in the "sweet spot" of the pilot bonus) but just couldn't understand my "madness". I don't know where you are stationed, but perhaps you could find a Meetup (or even create one?) with like minded folks. I am not a huge fan of MMM, but there does seem to be a lot of "chapters" where folks meet up.

 

[Gumby]

No offense to the drunken sailors on this forum.

As U.S. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story wrote in Harden v. Gordon (1823)

"Every court should watch with jealousy any encroachment upon the rights of seamen, because they are unprotected and need counsel, because they are thoughtless and require indulgence, because they are credulous and complying, and are easily overreached. They are emphatically the wards of the admiralty; and though not technically incapable of entering into a valid contract, they are treated in the same manner, as courts of equity are accustomed to treat young heirs, dealing with their expectancies, wards with their guardians … and as they have little of the foresight and caution belonging to persons trained in other pursuits of life, the most rigid scrutiny is instituted into the terms of every contract, in which they engage."


With all the drinking and swearing, it's a miracle I have any time to read this board.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Most of my friends work for the state and all have pensions. Most also contribute to deferred compensation.

 

[Rianne]

As U.S. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story wrote in Harden v. Gordon (1823)

"Every court should watch with jealousy any encroachment upon the rights of seamen, because they are unprotected and need counsel, because they are thoughtless and require indulgence, because they are credulous and complying, and are easily overreached. They are emphatically the wards of the admiralty; and though not technically incapable of entering into a valid contract, they are treated in the same manner, as courts of equity are accustomed to treat young heirs, dealing with their expectancies, wards with their guardians … and as they have little of the foresight and caution belonging to persons trained in other pursuits of life, the most rigid scrutiny is instituted into the terms of every contract, in which they engage."

With all the drinking and swearing, it's a miracle I have any time to read this board.

I had to read that 4 times. In summary, sailors are trained children and need parents to guide them in life.

 

[Gumby]

I had to read that 4 times. In summary, sailors are trained children and need parents to guide them in life.

Precisely.

 

[Rianne]

Precisely.

I should be a lawyer.

 

[Mdlerth]

There are none so blind as those who WILL not see

On another similar thread a while back, I mentioned that I made "quiet" attempts to get my staff to consider minimum 401K contributions, or even minimum deductions for US Savings Bonds. 4 employers, 100 or so subordinates, and to the best of my knowledge convinced exactly.....2.

My Megacorp has offered employee savings programs since approximately the late Cretaceous era, with a good match, a variety of sound investing options and reasonable expense ratios. You'd think anybody capable of understanding compound interest would be in it, at LEAST to take advantage of the company match.

I'm no longer surprised, but always astonished, by how low the voluntary participation rate is.

The only upside is the amusing creativity of their excuses. Bless their hearts.

 

[Helios]

So many friends admire fire, but want it easy. If you just buy this one stock or fund, one less latte a week, and I can retire wealthy and young.
It didnt work that way for me, it was a tuff solitary pursuit.

 

[ckelly78z]

Trying to bring up FIRE to those who don't participate is difficult. So many that I work with are just struggling to make 2 big car payments, and live in a rented house after a messy divorce, let alone see a bright, debt free future.

I am truly happy that I found this forum as well, lots of experienced souls that are willing to share their advice, and stories to help others along.

I visited my 77 year old parents yesterday, and brought up what they had done to successfully FIRE at 59 years old, and we discussed numbers, figures, and strategies...something I can't do with other family members.

 

[exnavynuke]

I don't find FIRE a lonely passion. I have friends that I can discuss it with, even if their pursuits are not the same. I have family I can talk about it with, even though they are not on the path. I can do this because I accept they are different, with different priorities, and just celebrate my milestones and plans, while trying to make sure it doesn't come across as if I'm telling them they should have similar goals. When my sister laments all her bills and that she still has years until she'll pay off the debt consolidation loan they took out to consolidate their 5-figures worth of CC debt one minute, and tells me she has no interest in taking the time/effort to get a higher paying job or work any of the offered overtime, I just nod and do my best to avoid saying anything negative. Maybe even agree with some statements that don't sound ludicrous which come up in her ranting.

Online, I can be fully honest with people here, in various facebook groups (Choose FI and others), in Reddit forums like r/financialindependence etc.

I have many outlets where I can talk about everything and plans and suggest people do things the way I think they should be done, where the audience is receptive to such discussions and suggestions. I just don't do it with people who are obviously not looking for such conversation.

 

[W2R]

Isn’t that the purpose of this forum and its membership? Many, many people who love to hold forth on FIRE-related (or not) topics?

Exactly.

I guess I could sit around and do the "poor little old me" thing about people not wanting to hear about my finances; but then I'd have to do the same about so many other topics that just aren't good topics for discussion.

For example my politics would turn some peoples' hair white. OK, mine already is white.... But anyway I just don't choose to bring up that topic unless I am pretty sure the other person is like minded.

This is something my mother taught me as a little girl, when she told me "never discuss politics or religion in polite company". She could have included sex and money in the same sentence. It's just common sense.

When I want to discuss one of these four topics, I look for a forum dedicated to that sort of discussion where I know people are there because they want to talk about the topic anonymously. I wouldn't spring such discussion on a random friend, co-worker, or acquaintance in real life. Most of us develop filters like this at some point.

 

[HI Bill]

I think it's all about human nature. We don't, as a species, look far into the future, or remember the distant path. For most, planning and sacrificing now for something that won't happen for 20 to 30 years seems inconceivable. I've talked about FIRE to a lot of friends, and only one, eventually, got it. The others aren't willing to adjust the lifestyle to meet the eventual goal.

I did a retirement planning presentaiton at work, and everyone who attended left discouraged, because they are so far behind and aren't doing enough. One out of 15 attendees came back and asked some questions, and she was concerned only about the end-of-2018 market losses.

Most just can't comprehend the power of compounded earnings, living below one's means, or being able to make ER a reality, even though they'd love to!

 

[brucethebroker]

If you think it's lonely talking about it pre-FIRE, many here can tell you it only gets worse post-fire.

Lots of people ACT like they are interested in talking about it, but once you explain about LBYM, frugalnesss, decades of steady monthly investment, (in our case, renting out homes and all of those adventures), etc., they become dis-interested in the work/dedication required. I guess they think there is a magic wand or something.

 

[Sunset]

Same here. My dear, penny pinching, wife is snug in bed. Example: We make chicken thighs in the oven she pours off the broth for a soup in the future. She skims the fat and feeds it to the chickens. I could write a book about it.

Once a long time ago, when I with my single mother girlfriend (not my child).
I took the bones from a roasted chicken, and made soup out of them.
She laughingly said to me, I was the only person she knew who recycled food

Hopefully she remembered that as she took quite a few more years before getting off welfare.

 

[Music Lover]

In our experience it is similar to other worthwhile endeavours.

Everyone seems to want some form of it but far fewer are prepared to expend the effort and follow the personal discipline to make it a reality in their lives.

I'm in very good shape and some of my friends who don't exercise have commented that it must be nice to be fit, strong, not have a sore back, etc. I tell them that it only takes 20 minutes a day and that I'll help to get them started, but not a single one of them has taken me up on the offer.

FI is the same thing...some people spend the few minutes it takes to pack a lunch, make a pot of coffee, put a little into savings, buy a gently used car while others buy lunch every day, stop for a take out coffee, spend any leftover money, and buy a new car every 3 or 4 years.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I make soup stock from vegetable trimmings and bones. It is a lot cheaper and healthier than most bouillon or package broths and there's no packaging to discard.

 

[Pellice]

Making stock from chicken bones and vegetable trimmings isn't merely frugal, it's gourmet! You aren't using pre-packaged multi-ingredient commercial products. The stock is better quality, particularly when the bones are roasted first.

And - another cost-saving benefit - it provides winter warmth and moisture to the kitchen.

 

[Gumby]

Making stock from chicken bones and vegetable trimmings isn't merely frugal, it's gourmet! You aren't using pre-packaged multi-ingredient commercial products. The stock is better quality, particularly when the bones are roasted first.

And - another cost-saving benefit - it provides winter warmth and moisture to the kitchen.

That's exactly how we make it. We sometimes save bones in the freezer until we have enough to make a big batch of stock, and then we can it.

 

[Retch The Grate]

A voice from the other side.
Initially after my cancer scare, out intention was for me to go back to my (then) plans to build out my new business. As part of the recovery we spent some time at our lakeside park model camper in the Woodhaven Lakes campground. By chance, we found a dozen or so, youngish couples around our age., who had retired early and decided to live in the campground, and snowbird to Florida, Texas or Arizona.

It was great, and we did that ourselves, from 1989 to 2012. The thing is, we basically lived together, played together, traveled together, square danced, and spent the rest of the time playing cards and doing "pot luck dinners". We were all basically in the same economic status, so there was absolutely no "keeping up with...", and we shared everything from food, to boats, to rides and everything in between. A closeness that never was anything but friendly. Really... a lesson in getting along, that transferred to our Florida over 55 community.

In short, it was a breakaway from the working world and any peer pressure or vanity. Probably the best thing we ever did in our 30 year retirement.

I always love your posts like this Imoldernu

 

[ckelly78z]

The same $40 have been in my wallet all year so far, I do use a debit card that comes from my checking acct. I set up my direct deposit payroll so $20 a week disappears into a savings acct, and 20% disappears into my 401K. I pay at the pump to avoid the temptations of the convenience store, I pack my lunch every day, and drink water most of the time. We park our campers in the back yard with friends for holidays, I have burnt firewood for our sole heat for 25 years now, and i'm going to retire 5 years before my due date....It's more of a lifestyle than a choice !

All of my friends have claimed they will have to work forever.

 

[Monterey298sc]

OMG, happened to
Me tonight at dinner. You are not alone!