FIRE is a lonely passion

[TDub]

I love the concept of FIRE. I think it’s brilliant and worthwhile and there’s so much hope in the possibility. It’s not for everyone, and some make strong arguments that it’s all but impossible for many low-income earners. I get that.

But why is it so difficult to find people who are interested in or willing to talk about personal finance, let alone interested in FIRE?

It’s just weird to have this passion, and have virtually no one to share it with besides DW.
It’s especially weird because I want the people I care about to know FIRE is a thing and that it’s doable. I want them to feel this excitement and hope. But when the subject has been broached, just a teeny tiny bit, it’s clear they aren’t interested in further discussion.

Do you all just live “in secret”, as it were?

(Did I miss somewhere that the first rule of FIRE Club is don’t talk about FIRE Club?)

 

[Aerides]

I think the first rule of personal finance is... it's personal. It's right behind politics and religion as being a bad idea to discuss with all but your most intimate friends/family, and even then, with caution.

It's very hard to do without someone sounding judgy, or feeling judged, or humble bragging, or getting defensive. Many of the principles of fire are counter-culture, particularly in the western world (debt, consumption, measures of stuff as personal worth, mine's bigger, etc.)

Money and finances are also kind of boring to anyone who doesn't already feel the same way. Boring and/or a sore spot.

If you were an avid ultra-marathoner, would you expect to have conversations about that hobby with your sedentary, non-athletic friends? Not for long you wouldn't. Runners LOVE to talk about running. Non-runners tune out in about 30 seconds.

So, keep it a topic for date night, if you must!

 

[Calico]

Here you go: Friends and Family Can't Relate

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/friends-and-family-can-t-relate-92752.html

There have been other threads on the subject; this is just one of the recent ones.

No one I know can relate. They live for the moment (their choice) and mock me for my frugality. Doesn't bother me. I have a plan and I'm sticking to it.

ETA: I do have two cousins and one friend who "get it" and who cheer me on. When I said "no one" above I meant no one I work with or ever did work with gets it.

 

[TDub]

Ok thanks. I couldn’t figure out what to put into the search bar.

 

[TDub]

I think the first rule of personal finance is... it's personal. It's right behind politics and religion as being a bad idea to discuss with all but your most intimate friends/family, and even then, with caution.

It's very hard to do without someone sounding judgy, or feeling judged, or humble bragging, or getting defensive. Many of the principles of fire are counter-culture, particularly in the western world (debt, consumption, measures of stuff as personal worth, mine's bigger, etc.)

Money and finances are also kind of boring to anyone who doesn't already feel the same way. Boring and/or a sore spot.

If you were an avid ultra-marathoner, would you expect to have conversations about that hobby with your sedentary, non-athletic friends? Not for long you wouldn't. Runners LOVE to talk about running. Non-runners tune out in about 30 seconds.

So, keep it a topic for date night, if you must!

You’re right, of course. Date night, otherwise just some good old fashioned restraint.

 

[steelyman]

Isn’t that the purpose of this forum and its membership? Many, many people who love to hold forth on FIRE-related (or not) topics?

 

[KenZ71]

Sadly I am in this adventure on my own.

DW tells me live in the moment while she maxes another credit card.

 

[ckelly78z]

Too many people have to have that new car every other year, that frappuccino every morning, and those new clothes every season. They can't get past the appearance of looking wealthy to actually BE wealthy.

Some of the laziest friends I have, drink expensive energy drinks while sitting at their desk, buy an expensive lunch out, and then lament of not having any jingle in their pockets. I drink water with my packed lunch !

Luckily, my DW is on board, and will soon start contributing after her big raise last year.

 

[ocean view]

I would love to evangelize about FIRE to my friends and family (especially my young adult family)...but I don’t. I try to keep my mouth shut until they ask (only 2 have asked). I have to remind myself that it is none of my business how they handle their money.

 

[Gumby]

Sadly I am in this adventure on my own.

DW tells me live in the moment while she maxes another credit card.

Sorry to hear this, Ken. I have been blessed for 35 years with a young wife whose values are aligned with mine. Our imminent retirement would not have been possible without that.

 

[footenote]

Yes, it's lonely. I am virtually estranged from my disastrously-spendy brother and have few friends who understand.

Honestly, it's worth it in the end and you can find community here.

 

[jollystomper]

It's very hard to do without someone sounding judgy, or feeling judged, or humble bragging, or getting defensive. Many of the principles of fire are counter-culture, particularly in the western world (debt, consumption, measures of stuff as personal worth, mine's bigger, etc.)

+1

More than a few people do not like the thought of someone doing better than they are; it is "proof" that things are not "fair".

However, one aspect I differ with the OP is that I do not find it lonely. I get enough personal satisfaction in what I have achieved that I am very happy not talking about it, or others not knowing about it. It is nice to just be in the background with this.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

Just to reiterate some concepts listed above...

Some of my friends are struggling with credit card debt or are having a tougher go due to a divorce, etc. Personally, I'd rather not have personal finance discussions with those friends unless they bring it up and it's on their terms because I don't want to come off as preachy or bragging.
It's a lot easier chatting about general FIRE concepts, investments, etc with friends that are already heading down that path.

My siblings want to be good with their money and I can chat to them about simple concepts for them to follow but they only have limited interest in the nuts and bolts. They're busy being great parents, keeping their household going, etc.

 

[TDub]

Isn’t that the purpose of this forum and its membership? Many, many people who love to hold forth on FIRE-related (or not) topics?

Yes! And I’m grateful for this forum.

It would be awfully nice to have these convos with people IRL, too. Especially with friends and family. But alas, too many compelling reasons not to try.

So it’s time to shift away from the “lonely” mindset.

If this forum is the only safe space for FIRE talks, so be it. I enjoy it here.

 

[leftbucket]

To the OP,

I agree with your sentiment as for many in the civilian world not necessarily being interested in personal finance, but I am a little surprised to hear you say this knowing your occupation. Personal finance comes up all the time at my base, especially with the Blended Retirement System decision last year, changing BAH, GS civilian job conversions, and Tricare status changes (OK, that's more for reservists, but you get the idea). They may not all embrace FIRE, but they do care about their paychecks.

I would think you should be able to get your "fix" at work either talking to other officers or mentoring other airmen about financial awareness. To a degree, Our "personal" finance IS Uncle Sam's business...at least that's what they tell you at GTC briefings...
So go ahead, talk finance at work...you might just save a career or two.

Thanks for you and your wife's service,
LB

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Do you all just live “in secret”, as it were?

It is more fun living in secret and then like the Nike ad, just do it and retire early.

 

[brett]

In our experience it is similar to other worthwhile endeavours.

Everyone seems to want some form of it but far fewer are prepared to expend the effort and follow the personal discipline to make it a reality in their lives.

Too many other shiney objects or keeping up with the Jones seem to take preference.

 

[Bir48die]

A couple thoughts on this. I was the first in one group of my friends to retire. It wasn't until 1-2 years later that they joined me and we have some pretty decent conversations. My best friend is still at least three years away and we have talked very openly and specifically about our plans and portfolios. Otherwise it's been general talk with others about SS and Medicare when it comes available.

 

[nativenewenglander]

Sorry to hear this, Ken. I have been blessed for 35 years with a young wife whose values are aligned with mine. Our imminent retirement would not have been possible without that.

Same here. My dear, penny pinching, wife is snug in bed. Example: We make chicken thighs in the oven she pours off the broth for a soup in the future. She skims the fat and feeds it to the chickens. I could write a book about it.

 

[marko]

I share my RE adventures with DW and about 1000 friends right here on er.org.

 

[iloveyoga]

When I first early retired, I was looking for a place to read and share. I can't really do much of that with friends and family, it is very personal and people would not understand. I was happy to find this group.

 

[steelyman]

On the broad topic of finding others with whom to discuss FIRE: that’s pretty general.

Are there specific sub-topics that are especially interesting? Although nothing’s perfect, the breakdown contained in this overall forum (ignoring Admin, FAQ, Hi, etc.) is a pretty good start.

Can you rank them based on what your level of interest is?

[ADDED] I smile when I read about “ROMEO” get-togethers.

 

[imoldernu]

A voice from the other side.
Initially after my cancer scare, out intention was for me to go back to my (then) plans to build out my new business. As part of the recovery we spent some time at our lakeside park model camper in the Woodhaven Lakes campground. By chance, we found a dozen or so, youngish couples around our age., who had retired early and decided to live in the campground, and snowbird to Florida, Texas or Arizona.

It was great, and we did that ourselves, from 1989 to 2012. The thing is, we basically lived together, played together, traveled together, square danced, and spent the rest of the time playing cards and doing "pot luck dinners". We were all basically in the same economic status, so there was absolutely no "keeping up with...", and we shared everything from food, to boats, to rides and everything in between. A closeness that never was anything but friendly. Really... a lesson in getting along, that transferred to our Florida over 55 community.

In short, it was a breakaway from the working world and any peer pressure or vanity. Probably the best thing we ever did in our 30 year retirement.

 

[Col. Klink]

Speaking of the DW...

We live in a master planned community in which 90% of the folks are +55 with the majority in 60's and on SS. We moved in at age 55. All of our neighbors moved in after us. We wo*ked PT for three years to really ensure our plan was set for retirement. Some fully retired neighbors at the community pool would ask "when are you going to be able to retire?" Our line back was generally, "when we choose to no longer wo*k". So we decided after three years of PT to bag it in December. In and around October or November, the question comes up again from a neighbor in their late 60's (who still does housecleaning for some under the table $). This time I tell her December 19th. It was apparent she was shocked and not genuinely pleased. Since then this neighbor apparently brought us up (i.e. talking a little smack) at a recent Bunko game that my wife was unable to attend.

My wife felt bad that folks were talking about us behind our backs. I just had her read this thread and the thread cited earlier. She feels much better understanding that most people made choices in life that did not permit them to FIRE. Jealousy is a normal human trait and one that many on this forum have shared. The last point is that we have found as a married couple that the journey to FIRE has been planned with LBYM and investing for years. The jealousy part from even acquaintance neighbors, however, was not expected. Luckily, we have enough friends and neighbors to be cordial to the naysayers and friends to those who are really friends that wish you well.

P.S. +2 or more to keeping your personal finances personal. Sometimes, however in a community setting some aspects of your personal life become public through casual conversation. "Do you have kids?" "Do you wo*k?", etc.

 

[steelyman]

Are there specific sub-topics that are especially interesting? Although nothing’s perfect, the breakdown contained in this overall forum (ignoring Admin, FAQ, Hi, etc.) is a pretty good start.

Can you rank them based on what your level of interest is?

Re-reading what I posted here, I thought, "Hey! Poll!", then realized a proxy is already available: the number of threads started in each sub-forum (not including replies). The current rankings, highest-to-lowest, are:


FIRE and Money
Other Topics
Health and ER
Life After FIRE
Young Dreamers
Travel Information
Stock Picking
FIRE Related Public Policy

My personal rankings would be somewhat different, and I think have changed from my time pre- and post-FIRE.