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09-19-2009, 12:02 PM
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#21
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,360
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire
If I was the mother of that 16-year-old student, I would sue the instructor for endangering my son and scaring me to death! Neither may be against the law but I would do it anyway
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Society has enough burdens without frivolous lawsuits. And even where there is a legitimate cause of action, >90% of the time litigation is a serious waste of time, energy and money.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
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09-19-2009, 12:52 PM
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#22
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton
Society has enough burdens without frivolous lawsuits. And even where there is a legitimate cause of action, >90% of the time litigation is a serious waste of time, energy and money.
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Four months later and only tangentially related to the aviation topic but hey, thanks for stopping by...
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Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
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09-20-2009, 05:14 PM
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#23
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,360
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No need to be snide. Remember the old saying: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". 
On the aviation topic: I don't think anyone here has enough facts to make any judgment about the pilot concerned. The fact that he ran out of fuel after a mere 45 minutes may perhaps imply that he didn't conduct a proper pre-flight inspection, but that isn't necessarily the case. There may well be extentuating circumstances that are not spelled out in the (very brief) media report.
P.S. Find me a pilot who hasn't pushed the endurance of his or her aircraft once or twice, and I will show you a pilot who is either lying or has minimal cross-country experience.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
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09-20-2009, 05:25 PM
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#24
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 4,204
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OK! Here is one! I never remember being concerned about the fuel gauge. I have over 4,000 hours flying time, and lots of cross-country time, to include island hopping across the Pacific. My guess you are going to find lots of others out there that don't press the fuel gauge.
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If it is after 5:00 when I post I reserve the right to disavow anything I posted.
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09-20-2009, 05:47 PM
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#25
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,021
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The only pilot I knew in the military who "pushed the [fuel] endurance of his or her aircraft once or twice" was removed from flying status due to his exercise of poor judgment.
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Numbers is hard
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09-20-2009, 06:10 PM
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#26
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At The Cafe
Posts: 6,873
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09-20-2009, 07:19 PM
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#27
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,859
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Good point-- the irony speaks for itself!
... and you have a nice life now.
__________________
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Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
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09-20-2009, 09:04 PM
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#28
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic23
My guess you are going to find lots of others out there that don't press the fuel gauge.
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Perhaps. But not in Northern Canada, where fuel can be hard to come by.
CuppaJoe, I'm looking forward to that movie. My only question is, does it feature CGI? Sure hope not.
Diane Keaton's Amelia Earhart: The Final Flight was a made-for-tv movie, but for all that I thought it was pretty good. And it had real aircraft! 
Nords, what's up with all the sarcasm? First it was "but hey, thanks for stopping by...". Now you've decended to "... and you have a nice life now."
I haven't posted anything to merit these passive-aggressive attacks. 
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
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09-21-2009, 07:16 AM
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#29
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15
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You're all wrong. Here's proof you don't need gas to take off.
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09-21-2009, 12:38 PM
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#30
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lake Livingston, Tx
Posts: 4,204
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Yes, but even this guy had enough fuel to make it home!
__________________
If it is after 5:00 when I post I reserve the right to disavow anything I posted.
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09-21-2009, 03:40 PM
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#31
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,502
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Well, if that highlander guy doesn't have enough fuel, he can always jettison the 2-ton balls he has and glide home.
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09-24-2009, 03:21 PM
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#32
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,360
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That's quite the link, thanks for sharing.
I watched some of his other videos, and am quite impressed with the aircraft's performance.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
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09-24-2009, 05:52 PM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,113
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John Denver didn't check his fuel level once, on his last flight.
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Duck bjorn.
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09-24-2009, 06:52 PM
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#34
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15
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I believe that John Denver's problem was that he couldn't switch gas tanks in that homebuilt plane because it required reaching behind your back with a pair of pliers. Of course, his alcoholism didn't help matters.
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09-24-2009, 07:06 PM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterj
I believe that John Denver's problem was that he couldn't switch gas tanks in that homebuilt plane because it required reaching behind your back with a pair of pliers. Of course, his alcoholism didn't help matters.
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I believe failure to refuel was one of several findings for the accident. From the NSTSB report (bold is mine):
Quote:
PROBABLE CAUSE
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause of this accident was the pilot's diversion of attention from the operation of the airplane and his inadvertent application of right rudder that resulted in the loss of airplane control while attempting to manipulate the fuel selector handle. Also, the Board determines that the pilot's inadequate preflight planning and preparations, specifically his failure to refuel the airplane, was causal. The Board determines that the builder's decision to locate the unmarked fuel selector handle in a hard-to-access position, unmarked fuel quantity sight gauges, inadequate transition training by the pilot, and his lack of total experience in this type of airplane were factors in this accident.
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http://www.avweb.com/other/ntsb9905.html
__________________
Numbers is hard
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09-24-2009, 07:43 PM
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#36
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15
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He also didn't have a valid medical certificate. He's definitely a case of a mentally impaired "pilot".
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09-24-2009, 11:23 PM
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#37
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 7,113
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I had no idea that John Denver was an alcoholic, however, I am not aware that alcohol played any role in the accident. There are lots of folks out there who are abstinent alcoholics.
As a read REWahoo's quotes it appears that Denver had too much confidence in his mastery of the aircraft and failed to run a proper pre-flight check. I seem to recall that Denver's father was in the Air Force and that John was an avid pilot. (And yes, I know that John Denver is not his birth name.) It is so easy to overlook details.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
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09-25-2009, 09:41 AM
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#38
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat
I had no idea that John Denver was an alcoholic, however, I am not aware that alcohol played any role in the accident. There are lots of folks out there who are abstinent alcoholics.
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Correct. The link REW provided explicitly indicates that Denver was negative for all substances tested, including booze (ethanol). He did have a history of alcohol problems including at least two DWI charges.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
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09-25-2009, 09:59 AM
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#39
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Dryer sheet wannabe
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15
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You are quite correct, he did not have alcohol in his blood at the time of his crash. He had been flying under a special issuance of his medical certificate after completing rehab which called for complete abstinence and MD visit every 3 months. His MD had reported him as not being abstinent and the FAA had sent him 2 certified letters revoking his flying priviledges. After receiving those, he bought that plane and went flying. The FAA talks about dangerous attitudes in pilots, one being anti-authority, as in the rules don't apply to me. Unfortunately, he had it in spades. Overall, just a da_n shame.
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09-25-2009, 01:45 PM
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#40
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 471
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"OK! Here is one! I never remember being concerned about the fuel gauge. I have over 4,000 hours flying time..."
I haven't either after 15,000+ hrs of civilian, military, and commercial flying.
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