For Book: What Would the Police Do Here?

[TromboneAl]

A man calls the police and says, "I caught a murderer. I have him tied up in room seven of the Pelican Motel. He had a gun, but I disarmed him. No one else has a gun."

What are the LEOs likely to do when they get to the motel. Will they have their guns out?

In the room will be the man and a friend who the cops will recognize as a local lawyer. The lawyer gives the police a minimal explanation about how the man tried to shoot someone and was disarmed.

I'm guessing they would call for backup and a lieutenant?

Will they arrest the tied up man? Would they handcuff others or just take them all downtown for statements?

Thanks!

[timo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl A man calls the police and says, "I caught a murderer. I have him tied up in room seven of the Pelican Motel. He had a gun, but I disarmed him. No one else has a gun." What are the LEOs likely to do when they get to the motel. Will they have their guns out? In the room will be the man and a friend who the cops will recognize as a local lawyer. The lawyer gives the police a minimal explanation about how the man tried to shoot someone and was disarmed. I'm guessing they would call for backup and a lieutenant? Will they arrest the tied up man? Would they handcuff others or just take them all downtown for statements? Thanks!

I hate to say it, but base upon recent events, there is a chance the lawyer will be shot by mistake. Because recent news stories have indicated that if the police know a gun is present on site, they will come with their guns out. So the problem for the lawyer is how to keep from being shot in error by the police.

[edit]: from the DOJ web site, there are 12,000 individual police departments in the USA. That's how the bad apples keep employed, by moving to other departments. I can't see a one size fits all answer to your question. It would depend upon the size and rules of that PD. Some departments require a college degree, some you just have to know someone on the dept.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timo2 I hate to say it, but base upon recent events, there is a chance the lawyer will be shot by mistake. Because recent news stories have indicated that if the police know a gun is present on site, they will come with their guns out. So the problem for the lawyer is how to keep from being shot in error by the police. [edit]: from the DOJ web site, there are 12,000 individual police departments in the USA. That's how the bad apples keep employed, by moving to other departments. I can't see a one size fits all answer to your question. It would depend upon the size and rules of that PD. Some departments require a college degree, some you just have to know someone on the dept.

Really? How many calls do officers respond to EVERY SINGLE day yet they avoid shooting someone?

[Aerides]

I've no LE background, but if I'm the person who's caught this perp, or his lawyer, I meet the cops outside the hotel room, with my hands up and open, and my ID displayed, before they approach. I kinda have to imagine that's what the dispatcher would have told them to do...not "ok stay there in the room with the suspect". If anything, they would have called the hotel management and arranged an evacuation of the adjacent rooms if not the floor, while the police were en route.

Also, why would the dispatcher, or the arriving officers, believe the story to begin with? Nah... not until it all checks out, smart cops are going in not knowing who is telling the truth, and acting accordingly.

[Beststash]

If it were in Texas you would probably have a SWAT team respond with guns drawn and looking like the military. Probably 4-5 backup vehicles and that is where the problems would have a potential to escalate. If you were a minority then I would meet them at the door with hands up. The mention of a gun is all it takes to turn the situation into a crisis. Make absolutely sure that they do not have any reason to question you or your motives - we are talking a life or death situation here.

I say this based only on the recent incidents in the Dallas and Houston areas this year that went badly wrong - be careful it is the Wild West these days.

[TromboneAl]

Good. New plan:

Lawyer: What! You haven't called the police yet?
Man: I was waiting for you.
Lawyer calls police. Police give instructions. Man & Lawyer stand out in the parking lot with their hands up.
Five police cars come. Everyone handcuffed and they sort things out at the station.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timo2 I hate to say it, but base upon recent events, there is a chance the lawyer will be shot by mistake.

10's of thousands of people are arrested every single day without incident and almost all of those arrests are done without shooting someone. And when someone is already tied up the chances of being shot by mistake are even less.

So maybe there is a chance...1/1,000,000 of 1%.

[Senator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl Good. New plan: Lawyer: What! You haven't called the police yet? Man: I was waiting for you. Lawyer calls police. Police give instructions. Man & Lawyer stand out in the parking lot with their hands up. Five police cars come. Everyone handcuffed and they sort things out at the station.

How does the guy know the one tied up is a murderer?

The cops would show up at the scene. Likely armed and ask for everyone to show hands and drop weapons. People that acted menacing might be shot. People that did not act menacing would get cuffed.

Once they found out what was actually happening, an arrest may be made.

The cops might well arrest the one holding the murderer for kidnapping.

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator How does the guy know the one tied up is a murderer? The cops would show up at the scene. Likely armed and ask for everyone to show hands and drop weapons. People hat acted menacing might be shot. People that did not would get cuffed. Once they found out what was actually happening, an arrest may be made. The cops might well arrest the one holding the murderer for kidnapping.

I'd be outside the room with my hands in the air and the tied up guy in plain sight in the middle of the room. Most murderers won't hang around for the cops so it would probably be sorted out fairly quickly.

[OldShooter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 Really? How many calls do officers respond to EVERY SINGLE day yet they avoid shooting someone?

This.

Trying to understand the world by reading the news is like trying to understand nature by observing a kindergarten class. The news is selected to highlight anything the author thinks will generate clicks and is then recycled for days until better click bait comes along.

Police shootings in error do happen, but my guess is that they are statistically very infrequent, maybe negligible.

[timo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldShooter This. Trying to understand the world by reading the news is like trying to understand nature by observing a kindergarten class. The news is selected to highlight anything the author thinks will generate clicks and is then recycled for days until better click bait comes along. Police shootings in error do happen, but my guess is that they are statistically very infrequent, maybe negligible.

There is a lot of published studies on this subject that are revealed by a quick internet search. Regardless, an analogy: planes crash infrequently, but when one does all heck breaks loose. Same thing with police shootings. One accidently dead person is a really big deal. While wandering the internet, I found this old page from 2011 that demonstrates that not all of the 12,000 police departments are the same when the number of police shootings are tallied. https://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot....11-annual.html

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl Good. New plan: Lawyer: What! You haven't called the police yet? Man: I was waiting for you. Lawyer calls police. Police give instructions. Man & Lawyer stand out in the parking lot with their hands up. Five police cars come. Everyone handcuffed and they sort things out at the station.

That is what I thought of when I read your scenario. In the unlikely event I ever have to have the police show up because I have restrained (or worse) a miscreant, I would be calling a lawyer and having them negotiate surrender/interaction with the police.

[Lakewood90712]

Al, just binge watch old episones of The Rockford Files , Matloc , and Adam 12. Bound to find a scene the fits.

[razztazz]

Quote:

The cops would show up at the scene. Likely armed and ask for everyone to show hands and drop weapons. People that acted menacing might be shot. People that did not act menacing would get cuffed or shot

Clarified that

[Music Lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by razztazz Clarified that

Maybe one of them can be struck by lightening waiting for the cops...the odds are probably the same

[ckelly78z]

If I were the police, I would enter the hotel with guns drawn, expecting a hoax to lure them in. I would arrest everyone, handcuff everyone, and let the stories be sorted out at the police station, by detectives who interview each defendant separately.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beststash If it were in Texas you would probably have a SWAT team respond with guns drawn and looking like the military. Probably 4-5 backup vehicles and that is where the problems would have a potential to escalate. If you were a minority then I would meet them at the door with hands up. The mention of a gun is all it takes to turn the situation into a crisis. Make absolutely sure that they do not have any reason to question you or your motives - we are talking a life or death situation here. I say this based only on the recent incidents in the Dallas and Houston areas this year that went badly wrong - be careful it is the Wild West these days.

It's not just Texas. DW enjoys watching "Live PD" and I am astonished at how *often* the Salinas California LEOs pull their sidearms. Stolen car? At least 8 officers, 5 cruisers and 1/2 of the officers pointing high caliber rifles at the occupants. Meanwhile, two officers are in Montana dealing with a bear in someones yard...a bear that is just FEET from the officers...and no weapons pulled.

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExFlyBoy5 It's not just Texas. DW enjoys watching "Live PD" and I am astonished at how *often* the Salinas California LEOs pull their sidearms. Stolen car? At least 8 officers, 5 cruisers and 1/2 of the officers pointing high caliber rifles at the occupants. Meanwhile, two officers are in Montana dealing with a bear in someones yard...a bear that is just FEET from the officers...and no weapons pulled.

What does that tell you about the relative risks of dealing with 2 legged predators vs. 4 legged?

Really, the police in Calistan roll around with 45/70 rifles? Or maybe .58 cal muzzleloaders?

[GravitySucks]

Someone in my town threatened to shoot a neighbor. SWAT team from this PD and the neighboring town surrounded the house for 12 hours until he surrendered Probably 25 officers.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 What does that tell you about the relative risks of dealing with 2 legged predators vs. 4 legged? Really, the police in Calistan roll around with 45/70 rifles? Or maybe .58 cal muzzleloaders?

Well, I think that some departments have become way too militarized. "Free" stuff from the feds has really made this a prevalent "solution" to a problem that is rare.

Also, I think it's interesting that the Oklahoma state troopers (who very often don't have backup anywhere near them) don't carry any weapons on their person other than a firearm. Most do have rifles, but they are carried in the trunk. Much different approach that almost every other LE department in the country.