Getting into RC Planes

[eytonxav]

This was something that I always wanted to explore, but never did. I had the manual fly by wire gas planes when I was a kid, but RC was not that common back in those days. Some of the ready to fly electric planes are quite intriguing as well as flight simulators to give one experience in working a controller. Unfortunately, it seems most the sims require a PC and I only have a mac, although one of my kids may have left behind an xbox360 somewhere in the house. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting started (eg join a club, get access to a flight simulator, what plane/controller is good to start with, etc)?

[NW-Bound]

There's a set up called a Buddy box. Basically, two controllers are joined together, with a skilled flyer and the novice holding each. The skilled flyer has the master controller, and can take over if the novice gets into trouble.

Of course you will need to find someone who can help out, such as at a local RC club.

[Walt34]

This is right up my alley. I've been flying R/C airplanes since 1983 with about a ten-year layoff that ended five years ago. Whew, where to start?

First thing is, you'll want to find a local club if at all possible. Very few who attempt to teach themselves to fly succeed and if they do the cost is almost certain to be high in terms of crashed airplanes and rebuilding. It can and has been done but it is much more difficult than with an instructor. The new foam models are much easier to repair than stick-built balsa wood. You will almost certainly need membership in the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) in part because insurance comes with the membership. I've never heard of a club that didn't require AMA membership. Finding a club is easy; the AMA has a "club finder" link on their web site.

The web site RCgroups.com is huge and can be a bit overwhelming with the volume of information available there. I'm there frequently and have found no better source of information.

Before spending a lot of money it may be best to contact a local club and find out what brand of R/C gear most of the club members use. This makes it easier to get help, and some of the R/C stuff available now can be intensely complicated. Lots of options/choices = complexity. Regardless of the brand of radio you get I'd recommend at least an 8-channel transmitter (or "control box") because you'll quickly outgrow anything less. The extra channels allow different setups and options such as flaps, retractable landing gear, lighting, "flight modes" and so on. Also look for one that has memory for multiple models, the more the better up to about 200 or so. And yes, some guys do have than many! It means being able to switch models without having to reconfigure the radio system every time like we used to have to do.

A simulator is an excellent way to start but I don't know of any that run on a Mac. That said it certainly is not essential. Many if not most of the trainers available now have settings that limit their angles of bank and pitch, some even have GPS and will "return to home" and automatically land where they took off! If you have a club instructor I would not recommend spending the money for those options, you won't need them.

Here are a number of excellent trainers to browse through, but I don't recommend buying any until you talk to a club instructor - they may have a favorite and really, no one makes a bad one anymore. Well, some in China are really bad.

https://www.horizonhobby.com/airplanes/by-type/trainer/

Horizon Hobby has what I believe to be the best product support in the industry but there is a price to that. There are cheaper places to buy but most are in China and their product support is slow at best and frequently nonexistent.

I do not recommend a "jet" to begin with which is really an electric ducted fan. It's expensive and is there only because so many people wanted one. They are fast, and that is not what a student pilot needs. There are cheaper models than those shown, but about $140 seems to be the bottom of the price range unless you're buying used gear. The Air Force does not start students in fighter planes and you shouldn't either. One that looks like a J-3 Cub is much more likely to be a successful trainer.

On electric vs. glow engine or gas engines: I fly exclusively electric now as the performance is equal to fuel-powered and sometimes even better. They are much simpler to deal with, starting, and maintenance. I'd highly recommend starting with electric for the simplicity of operation.

Off the top of my head this should keep you occupied learning for a while. Don't hesitate to ask if you need more information. Also look on youtube, there is enough there to keep anyone busy for months if not years.

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound There's a set up called a Buddy box. Basically, two controllers are joined together, with a skilled flyer and the novice holding each. The skilled flyer has the master controller, and can take over if the novice gets into trouble. Of course you will need to find someone who can help out, such as at a local RC club.

Yes, I believe we have a local club with field and have heard about the buddy box being a good way to learn with an instructor who can save you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt34 This is right up my alley. I've been flying R/C airplanes since 1983 with about a ten-year layoff that ended five years ago. Whew, where to start? First thing is, you'll want to find a local club if at all possible. Very few who attempt to teach themselves to fly succeed and if they do the cost is almost certain to be high in terms of crashed airplanes and rebuilding. It can and has been done but it is much more difficult than with an instructor. The new foam models are much easier to repair than stick-built balsa wood. You will almost certainly need membership in the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) in part because insurance comes with the membership. I've never heard of a club that didn't require AMA membership. Finding a club is easy; the AMA has a "club finder" link on their web site. The web site RCgroups.com is huge and can be a bit overwhelming with the volume of information available there. I'm there frequently and have found no better source of information. Before spending a lot of money it may be best to contact a local club and find out what brand of R/C gear most of the club members use. This makes it easier to get help, and some of the R/C stuff available now can be intensely complicated. Lots of options/choices = complexity. Regardless of the brand of radio you get I'd recommend at least an 8-channel transmitter (or "control box") because you'll quickly outgrow anything less. The extra channels allow different setups and options such as flaps, retractable landing gear, lighting, "flight modes" and so on. Also look for one that has memory for multiple models, the more the better up to about 200 or so. And yes, some guys do have than many! It means being able to switch models without having to reconfigure the radio system every time like we used to have to do. A simulator is an excellent way to start but I don't know of any that run on a Mac. That said it certainly is not essential. Many if not most of the trainers available now have settings that limit their angles of bank and pitch, some even have GPS and will "return to home" and automatically land where they took off! If you have a club instructor I would not recommend spending the money for those options, you won't need them. Here are a number of excellent trainers to browse through, but I don't recommend buying any until you talk to a club instructor - they may have a favorite and really, no one makes a bad one anymore. Well, some in China are really bad. https://www.horizonhobby.com/airplanes/by-type/trainer/ Horizon Hobby has what I believe to be the best product support in the industry but there is a price to that. There are cheaper places to buy but most are in China and their product support is slow at best and frequently nonexistent. I do not recommend a "jet" to begin with which is really an electric ducted fan. It's expensive and is there only because so many people wanted one. They are fast, and that is not what a student pilot needs. There are cheaper models than those shown, but about $140 seems to be the bottom of the price range unless you're buying used gear. The Air Force does not start students in fighter planes and you shouldn't either. One that looks like a J-3 Cub is much more likely to be a successful trainer. On electric vs. glow engine or gas engines: I fly exclusively electric now as the performance is equal to fuel-powered and sometimes even better. They are much simpler to deal with, starting, and maintenance. I'd highly recommend starting with electric for the simplicity of operation. Off the top of my head this should keep you occupied learning for a while. Don't hesitate to ask if you need more information. Also look on youtube, there is enough there to keep anyone busy for months if not years.

Boy Walt, you have given me a lot to chew on. Thank you for these excellent suggestions/information. I will definitely be back to pick your brain after some more learning. First off, I will contact the local club and look at joining AMA.

[sengsational]

If you want a immediate gratification RC experience, get a cheap quadcopter
One with all manual controls (a separate control...NOT your phone). You can fly conservatively (no more than 6 feet up, and drop power the second you're confused). Get extra batteries. You'll have hours of backyard fun for so cheap. Nothing against RC clubs, but that's at least as much about hanging out as flying. The quadcopter idea is all about flying. Forget the camera at the start. Just make controlling the flight like breathing. It'll take lots of hours of fun.

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengsational If you want a immediate gratification RC experience, get a cheap quadcopter One with all manual controls (a separate control...NOT your phone). You can fly conservatively (no more than 6 feet up, and drop power the second you're confused). Get extra batteries. You'll have hours of backyard fun for so cheap. Nothing against RC clubs, but that's at least as much about hanging out as flying. The quadcopter idea is all about flying. Forget the camera at the start. Just make controlling the flight like breathing. It'll take lots of hours of fun.

I guess that would be an option for learning orientation. I've also heard RC cars provide some of that as well, albeit much simpler.

I also came across this today, regarding FAA regs, and this article makes it appear they are trying to put an end to hobbyist flyers by implementing onerous regulations. Does anyone know anything about where this stands and the likelihood the FAA will succeed?https://rogershobbycenter.com/from-b...al-rc-aviation

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 I also came across this today, regarding FAA regs, and this article makes it appear they are trying to put an end to hobbyist flyers by implementing onerous regulations. Does anyone know anything about where this stands and the likelihood the FAA will succeed?https://rogershobbycenter.com/from-b...al-rc-aviation

This is yet another "The sky is falling and the government is going to jail us all for having fun" article. And much of the information in the article is obsolete and just plain wrong because the proposals were withdrawn or changed significantly for the better.

The photo of a guy flying an airplane (which is an E-flite Timber X, BTW) has the caption "This would be illegal in your backyard if the proposal becomes adopted."

Nonsense.

What is PROPOSED is that any remote controlled aircraft with a weight over 250 grams (which is an international standard) be required to carry an onboard sort of "broadcast ID" device, which hasn't been defined or even invented yet, if not operating from a known club flying site. If one is flying from a known flying site nothing changes. If one's models are under 250 grams (and I have a bunch of those) nothing changes. This "broadcast ID" device is estimated to cost about $20, hardly a deal-breaker since just one battery for the above mentioned airplane costs two or three times that. I have about a dozen of those batteries in various sizes and another dozen of much smaller ones.

And while the currently proposed regulations are supposed to take effect in three years I'll be surprised to see it happen in six years. Government just doesn't move that fast especially when there is significant opposition to the proposal (and there is, thanks to articles like that one) and the actual devices to make it happen aren't invented yet. It's not that hard, but they have to set standards and all that bureaucratic stuff and I seriously doubt it's gonna happen that soon.

My own opinion is that I'm a bit surprised that it has taken this long to get the FAA involved in this aspect of model aviation. For as long as it was confined to guys flying from club sites or a farmer's field somewhere it was pretty much out of sight and mind for most of the population. The development of the cheap and easy to control quadcopters (i.e., "drones") changed that - now you hear of the idiots flying over fire scenes, crime scenes, forest fires, riots, sporting events, and of course the occasional crash because said idiot didn't plan more than thirty seconds ahead. And I'll grant that there are legitimate uses for that equipment, in news reporting and dozens or hundreds of other areas, like forestry. Again, people are unfamiliar with what can and will go wrong and this is an effort to make them at least read the manual that came with the device.

These regulations are an effort to react to that. Whether they will be effective is certainly debatable. My own feeling is that the genie was out of the bottle about thirty years ago or more and there is no catching up now.

I just don't see that it's worth getting all that worked up about and I fully expect that I'll be able to continue on flying R/C airplanes just as I have been for as long as I'm physically able to do so.

[sengsational]

Because of this thread, I flew out all my batteries, hehehe! Now recharging.

[eytonxav]

That is good to hear Walt. Just when I am getting interested in this hobby, it was a bit disconcerting coming across that article. But like many things when the gov't and the media are involved there can be a lot of hoopla and exaggeration.

Sengsational, glad this thread rekindled your interest.

Now on to another question, the local club's website recommends the Timber and Apprentice planes as trainers. When you buy these as RTF the choice of xmitters is limited to fewer channels and older technology vs getting a current 8 channel unit like an NX8 which could provide for future growth. I believe these planes can also be purchased as BNF, which would allow the purchase of a separate better xmitter. Would the BNF cause too much complexity for a beginner to setup and get in the air vs the RTF models that have everything included in the box?

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 Now on to another question, the local club's website recommends the Timber and Apprentice planes as trainers. When you buy these as RTF the choice of xmitters is limited to fewer channels and older technology vs getting a current 8 channel unit like an NX8 which could provide for future growth. I believe these planes can also be purchased as BNF, which would allow the purchase of a separate better xmitter. Would the BNF cause too much complexity for a beginner to setup and get in the air vs the RTF models that have everything included in the box?

Those are both good choices for trainers. The Timber is a much more capable airplane but as long as the student has the self-discipline to keep it at half throttle (except for takeoff) for the first half-dozen flights or so he/she will do fine. The BNF and the NX8 (I'd recommend the NX10 but it does cost a bit more, and is backordered right now) will not add significantly to the complexity of learning. I would strongly recommend getting the BNF model and either the NX8 or NX10 radio. They will serve you well much better into the future when you get other models.

And when you get addicted, you will get other models. Resistance is futile.

You can download the factory radio settings and import them into the transmitters (all of the DX, NX, or IX series radios for sale now) but these setups are only available for Horizon Hobby models. There are also detailed instructions in the manual for the individual airplane to set up from scratch, which I recommend doing because you'll learn how to set up the transmitter for the future time when you buy another brand that doesn't have those instructions. After you do it a few times it's not that hard, but I'll admit there is a learning curve. And coming from someone who started R/C in 1983, today's radios make life so much easier!

Here's an example of the setup for the new Turbo Timber Evolution (which I recommend you wait for, it's backordered because it's new). Scroll down a bit on the description page and you'll come to a link for the manual, and the radio setup is on page 4 on the lower right hand side. When you're holding the manual in one hand and the transmitter in the other it makes much more sense. BTW, the new model has some significant improvements over the older one that make it worth waiting for. I already ordered one for myself.

While you can get the Timber X (or Night Timber X) now, those are a bit more advanced and have faster roll rates that would possibly make them harder for a student to learn with. They can be "toned down" a bit to make them suitable but again, the student has to be able to "know his limitations" and not push the envelope.

Also buy a decent battery charger. The ones that come with the RTF models are just shy of junk. They run off a USB outlet and that will take "foreeever" to charge one of those batteries. It doesn't have to be a Spektrum "smart" battery or charger, those are significantly more expensive but those do have some significant advantages. Venom makes good chargers and batteries for a reasonable price as does HobbyKing. Look for the EC3 or IC3 connectors though. Those are not as widely used as the XT-60 connectors, which are not compatible with Horizon Hobby products. (Sheesh - why can't they all just use the same connector?) Otherwise, prepare to do some soldering.

Sadly, here's another example of why the regulations are coming. Some dolt crashes his drone on a restricted beach and 3,000 eggs of an endangered bird are abandoned. Stupidity like that just frosts me. It makes people think that everyone who flies an R/C model is like that dolt.

[ShokWaveRider]

I always found it to restrictive here by the beach where we live. There is always a prohibitive breeze and I do not want to drive 10 miles inland just to fly. BTW I used to do it as a pretty serious hobby when I was younger.

Soooooo. I changed to drones. They are a lot more forgiving in wind and have the added benefit that you can shoot a reasonable video of your home when you want to sell it that pays for itself.

[eytonxav]

Walt you are a wealth of expertise/advice, thank you. Getting into hobbies like this prior to the internet/forums must have been much more difficult.

[f35phixer]

Following ��

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 Walt you are a wealth of expertise/advice, thank you. Getting into hobbies like this prior to the internet/forums must have been much more difficult.

You're welcome, glad to help. I'm just "paying it forward" for the guys who helped me.

Pre-internet we bought books and magazines. And there were a lot more available than there are now. Now it's almost all youtube....