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Old 07-28-2020, 11:56 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by RetiredAtThirty-eight View Post
Hey, you're the one that said it was safe because it was a river backdrop. In my experience, that's a false sense of security. People like rivers. And line of sight is often obscured by the bushes and trees that grow on riverbanks.

I just want people to be safe out there. Four years ago, I was shooting bird photos with my camera by a river in a wildlife sanctuary and had just returned to my car at the trailhead when I heard a high-velocity bullet ricochet off the road about 6 feet in front of where I was standing next to my car. It made the "wing-a-zing" sound right up close. Pretty scary stuff.

Be safe out there!
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:24 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by CRLLS View Post
FYI, in Illinois, an air rifle using >.18 caliber or with velocity >700 FPS is considered a firearm. As such it requires a FOID card (Firearm Owner Identification) and is treated as other rifles. Il is a nanny state when it comes to gun regulations.
The correct interpretation of a law or statute requires "lawyer logic" and is not always obvious. In this case, I believe your interpretation of guns considered a "firearm" is overly broad. The correct interpretation of "firearm" (using the statute you provided) only include pellet guns that have (both) a caliber greater than or equal to 0.18 inch AND a maximum muzzle velocity of 700 fps or greater. This is an oddity of logic when "or" is used AFTER an exclusion. This means a pellet rifle with a caliber of 0.17 inch and a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps (or any amount actually) is not considered a firearm. It also means a pellet gun with a caliber of 0.22 inch (or any size really) and a muzzle velocity of 650 fps (or any velocity less than 700 fps) is not considered a firearm.

Let's look again at the statute you provided:

Quote:
"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or

B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter or which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second;

The statute above starts by defining a firearm by describing basically all guns, then it excludes those having very small caliber OR slow muzzle velocities.

I know, it's not exactly obvious but that's how this law needs to be read.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:26 PM   #43
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My rifle would be illegal for Olympic shooting because open sights are mandated. I use a 12X scope which makes a huge difference for this kind of shooting. I also shoot from a sitting position with sturdier supports that would not be allowed in Olympic shooting.

It's more to validate the consistency of the air charge each shot of the gun and the fit of the pellet in the bore.
I have a 308 5R Milspec with a Bushnell Tactical Elite 3.5-21X scope, and even shooting off a bipod/bench I have to work to consistently get sub .5 moa 5 shot groups using factory ammo at 100 yds. I am just dumbfounded that a pellet gun could get close to that at 75 yds.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:56 PM   #44
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I have a 308 5R Milspec with a Bushnell Tactical Elite 3.5-21X scope, and even shooting off a bipod/bench I have to work to consistently get sub .5 moa 5 shot groups using factory ammo at 100 yds. I am just dumbfounded that a pellet gun could get close to that at 75 yds.
A pellet air gun has a number of important advantages when it comes to close range accuracy.

- There is very little (almost none) barrel heating to distort the barrel from shot to shot.
- The speed is sub-sonic which means there is no shock wave to disrupt the flight.
-There is no powder contamination inside the barrel from shot to shot that can cause minor inconsistencies.
-Pellets have a very fine lead skirt that seals more consistently with the barrel from shot to shot. Because the barrel is not expanding and contracting nearly as much due to combustion heat, and also because the velocities are lower, the bore can more accurately match that of the pellet. This gives very smooth flight.

This shot consistency, along with the relative quietness of PCP air guns, is what makes it so enjoyable to shoot air guns over my powder based rifles and shotguns. Plus you get a lot more shots for your money!
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:32 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
I have a 308 5R Milspec with a Bushnell Tactical Elite 3.5-21X scope, and even shooting off a bipod/bench I have to work to consistently get sub .5 moa 5 shot groups using factory ammo at 100 yds.
No personal interest in that sort of thing, but I have a good friend who is into that and he would never use factory ammo for precision long range shooting. I've watched him load his own and he takes what seems to me like unbelievably meticulous care with every round.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:13 PM   #46
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Your firm grasp of the obvious is my guiding light.
Seems a little over the top for a friendly site.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:22 PM   #47
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I like Wabbit
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:28 PM   #48
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Seems a little over the top for a friendly site.
Sorry to have annoyed you. I just find @RetiredAtThirty-eight to be very tiresome. I really don't need to be reminded that trees and bushes grow along rivers. I also don't need a self-appointed firearms safety instructor ("I just want people to be safe out there ..."). The thread is about rabbits.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:35 PM   #49
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Sorry to have annoyed you. I just find @RetiredAtThirty-eight to be very tiresome. I really don't need to be reminded that trees and bushes grow along rivers. I also don't need a self-appointed firearms safety instructor ("I just want people to be safe out there ..."). The thread is about rabbits.
Sorry if I offended you. I just found it troubling that you said a river was a safe backdrop for shooting since no neighbors lived in that direction. Maybe you misstated yourself but I don't think statements like that should be allowed to stand without some clarification so people new to the sport don't start thinking along the same lines.

As I mentioned, I came very close to being hit by a stray shot by someone thinking the area was not inhabited. It's serious, I could have died.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:48 PM   #50
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No personal interest in that sort of thing, but I have a good friend who is into that and he would never use factory ammo for precision long range shooting. I've watched him load his own and he takes what seems to me like unbelievably meticulous care with every round.
Good hand loads are they way to go if you are competing in benchrest, PRS, F-Class, etc. I stopped hand loading and sold my equipment after no longer competing in USPSA pistol comps. For my putzing and rifle skill level, Federal Gold Medal Match is more than good enough, especially when you can occasionally get a 3/8" group with that factory ammo. Also, not bad for a factory built rifle except for the trigger.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:06 PM   #51
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I agree, shot placement is more important than caliber or velocity when it comes to a humane kill.

I have a Air Arms S510 PCP .22 cal. air rifle (with scope) which would be my weapon of choice if I were trying to make rabbit stew. With no strong breezes I can put pellets inside a dime at 75 yards all day long. It's so consistent and accurate it's almost boring.
I own an Air Arms S410 in .22. It is so ridiculously accurate o consider it cheating. LOL

My go to is a Weihrauch HW80 in .20. It has dispatched countless squirrels and starlings caught committing acts of depredation against my wife's bird feeders. Cottontails are very easy to out down humanely. A .177 with adequate shot placement will do the job.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:10 PM   #52
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Local ordinances will be the problem for airgun use in suburban Texas. But he/she will only be in trouble if a neighbor complains.

Discreet shots from an open window, being careful so no projectile leaves the homeowners property will mitigate the risk of problems with neighbors and police. Be sure to remove the screens well before setting up for your sniping sessions. [emoji16]
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Maybe, maybe not. I think that local ordinances typically forbid discharge of firearms, but to BATF/the feds, an air gun is not a firearm. So there would have to be some kind of law that defined air guns as firearms before the typical prohibition could apply.

In my case we have lots of windows overlooking what DW calls a garden and the critters call a salad bar, so I simply shoot from inside. No one sees the air gun and no one hears it. Beyond our backyard is a wide river, so I am never shooting in the direction of any neighbors, an important safety consideration with any weapon.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:21 PM   #53
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In our area eagles and hawks manage the critter population be they geese, ducks, squirles, or mice. If there are rabbits I haven't seen any. I know on Bainbridge Island (where we lived for several years) rabbits were a problem in the summer.. the interest of those who received a baby bunny at Easter had worn off. The return of eagles evidently kept the population under control.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:39 PM   #54
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Local ordinances will be the problem for airgun use in suburban Texas. But he/she will only be in trouble if a neighbor complains.
If Texas is anything like Washington, there are a lot of municipalities that don't regulate air guns at all. Which is kind of silly but I'm not complaining, I have a small shooting area set up right in my fenced front yard on a regular city block, totally legal and safe. But some municipalities do have ordinances regulating these types of rifles so, yeah, check your local ordinances.

Quote:
Discreet shots from an open window, being careful so no projectile leaves the homeowners property will mitigate the risk of problems with neighbors and police. Be sure to remove the screens well before setting up for your sniping sessions. [emoji16]
Remove the screens before shooting out your windows? Haha! That's funny, now Oldshooter is gonna chastise you for stating the obvious! He doesn't like being told about stufff he already knows.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:49 PM   #55
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I own an Air Arms S410 in .22. It is so ridiculously accurate o consider it cheating. LOL
Nice! Those Air Arms barrels are pretty sweet. Do you have a favorite pellet for it? My .22 cal. AA likes JSB Exact Jumbo Diablo and Exact Jumbo Heavy Diablo pellets.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:09 AM   #56
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Beeman FTS and Crossman Premiers. My Weihrauch loves JSB exacts. I haven't tried JSBs with the AA s410 but I should.
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Nice! Those Air Arms barrels are pretty sweet. Do you have a favorite pellet for it? My .22 cal. AA likes JSB Exact Jumbo Diablo and Exact Jumbo Heavy Diablo pellets.
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Old 07-29-2020, 08:23 AM   #57
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We also have a rabbit problem even though we have a fenced yard. Vegetable garden has chicken wire buried underground 6". Young trees have corrugated drain pipe around them in the winter. What I have found works best is to release the dog every time I see a rabbit.
We have a rabbit in our yard, and an unfenced veggie garden. The garden is near the fence between yards, and the neighbor on that side has a big dog. So far, the rabbit has stayed on the opposite side of our yard grazing on grass and clover flowers. It hasn't yet touched the lettuce or other goodies in the garden. The dog isn't even out there most of the time, but when he does get released he tears around the neighbor's yard like an unguided missle. Seems to be enough to repel the rabbit from the garden so far.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:06 AM   #58
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Apparently problems with rabbits are pretty widespread these days. Depending on your relationship with '90s music you'll either like this or hate it:

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Old 07-29-2020, 01:01 PM   #59
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I did not see your dogs breed, but black labs can be effective
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:39 PM   #60
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The ones I cage and release are taken in the back country. They don't last long there with eagles, hawks, weasels, coyotes, wolfs and so many other natural predator's.
I live a small westerns cow town that you could walk blind folded across the busiest street in town and nevah get hit by a vehicle at any time of the day.

Even thou a small town no shooting allowed in town so that is my best option is cage and release. When I release them it is 20 miles away or so with not a living human with in 5 miles.
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